Flooding Ebb Buckets Too Often

[AlphaPhase]

I just wanted to start a thread for future ebb and grow bucket users. I personally have just started my first ebb bucket grow. Right off the bat, I've had an over watering problem.

I started a 6 bucket system and transplanted 6 nicely rooted clones from my bubble cloner into the buckets using hydroton as a medium. I figured flooding every couple hours would be fine, my theory being the roots are small and would need to be flooded more often until they have established their root systems. WRONG! I noticed right away something was wrong. Droopy leaves (upside down canoes), stunted growth etc.

I then tried every four hours. Same problem. Then every six hours. Things started getting better, but still showing symptoms. I now have it set to flood every 8.5 hours for 15 minutes. Problem solved.

Less flooding with new transplant clones is important! Trust me. Start with flooding once. Then watch the clones for a minor wilt, then flood. Should take 6-9 hours before seeing symptoms. Most threads said flood every 4 hours or so. I am now assuming that this flood time is for full veg plants, NOT newly transplanted clones.

I'd like others input on this subject as I know it is plant and eenvironment dependant, but I do believe flooding every 4 hours for NEW clones is too much.

 

[AlphaPhase]

As you can see in the pictures, my root growth was decent. But as you can also see in the pictures, purple stem, halted growth, curled leaves. This damage was caused from flooding every 2 hours, and only for a few days, but it doesn't take long to over water new clones.

So I basically made this thread to save people who are new to ebb buckets the time and headache of overwattering from the get go. Take the time to dial in the flood times that work for your plants and environment. Everyone's flood time and intervals may be different. But like I said, start with one flood, then wait to flood the second time until you see the plants need the water! Could be 3hours, could be 12 hours.

 

[StChristopher]

I cant say I would agree 100%. When I run my table I flood 15 min on the hour (lights on) twice with light off. Never have I had over watering problems. It sounds like you have a lack of O2 in your water.

I know some will say this and that but the bottom line is dose'nt matter how much water is used as long as their is enough O2.

So yes if you dont bubble your water or at the very least circulate your res, maybe your right to cut back water cycles, but kind of defeats the purpose of hydro a bit.

 

[AlphaPhase]

I cant say I would agree 100%. When I run my table I flood 15 min on the hour (lights on) twice with light off. Never have I had over watering problems. It sounds like you have a lack of O2 in your water.

I know some will say this and that but the bottom line is dose'nt matter how much water is used as long as their is enough O2.

So yes if you dont bubble your water or at the very least circulate your res, maybe your right to cut back water cycles, but kind of defeats the purpose of hydro a bit.

I understand that with flood tables, I've used flood tables for years with no.problems, but this is ebb and grow buckets, with a separate controller bucket and 32 gallon reservoir. I have an air pump in my reservoir as well. My agent Orange strain was fine with flooding every 3 hours, but my Larry og was not. An air pump in a ebb and grow bucket reservoir being useful is also debatable, as the oxygen is created for the roots only during the draining of the system and not the flooding.

I'm talking about new clones and not full veg plants also. I know more frequent flooding during full veg is fine, but newly rooted clones I'd have to disagree

 

[AlphaPhase]

I cant say I would agree 100%. When I run my table I flood 15 min on the hour (lights on) twice with light off. Never have I had over watering problems. It sounds like you have a lack of O2 in your water.

I know some will say this and that but the bottom line is dose'nt matter how much water is used as long as their is enough O2.

So yes if you dont bubble your water or at the very least circulate your res, maybe your right to cut back water cycles, but kind of defeats the purpose of hydro a bit.

Also a "dry " period for roots is beneficial and also reduces root rot and such, dwc on the other hand, which I'm also kinda knowledgeable about, is a whole other animal, as the roots sit in water 100% of the time.. As with rwdc. The more air the better for sure! With flood tables, and ebb buckets its a differen ball game IMO

Also, can I ask why would flood your tables so much? Would it be more beneficial to constantly flood the table without having a break every hour, if flooding every hour anyway? The 15 minutes that the table isn't flooding isn't really doing anything, ie. Time for roots to dry a little ect.. Wouldn't this be dwc basically and not ebb and flow?

 

[Dr.Pecker]

Good post. They do like to dry out a bit but you don't want to let them get droopy either. Are you sure your flood timer isn't faulty?

 

[AlphaPhase]

Good post. They do like to dry out a bit but you don't want to let them get droopy either. Are you sure your flood timer isn't faulty?

Thanks! I don't think my flood timers bad, it seems to be working fine. It turns on at the proper times and drains properly. Im using a hydrofarm grow flow system with 6 buckets. Im using a 5x5 tent, temps are 81-83 in the tent, 73 outside the tent, water temps in the reservior @ 68. I have 440cfm exhaust, and two osculating fans in the tent. I did buy some new hydroton for this grow though, and even after 8 hours the hydroton is still damp! I have 35% humidity. I'm not sure if my new hydroton holds water longer than any hydroton I previously used, but it definitely is drying out at a slower rate. I've never had over water problems, especially in hydro, so I really felt the need to post this. It could be that my Larry og is just very picky with watering, but if one strain reacts like this, im sure there are others, and the usual flood every 4-6 hours may not work

 

[Dr.Pecker]

keep an eye on your ph with new hydroton.

 

[Dr.Pecker]

sounds like you know what your doing.Im a tlo grower but just for shits and grins I made up a couple dwc buckets with hydroton. I washed it for like an hour and was still getting clay residue in my water.I need to pick your brain on the dwc thing later.

 

[AlphaPhase]

sounds like you know what your doing.Im a tlo grower but just for shits and grins I made up a couple dwc buckets with hydroton. I washed it for like an hour and was still getting clay residue in my water.I need to pick your brain on the dwc thing later.

For sure, I'll help you with whatever you need. If you can keep water temps down in the Dwc buckets, they will grow the biggest plants you've ever seen! I always run bubble buckets in the winter time to combat water temps, but a small water bottle with a cap filled with water and frozen in the freezer and put in the buckets to keep the temps Down works great, plus its a cheap and easy water chiller. I've run x6 5 gallon buckets with one 6 outlet air pump and 6 air stones and had great success.

 

[StChristopher]

Ya I was running 15 min cycles at first. Then I just ran some drippers and let it go 24/7.

But again I dont see how one can over water if it has proper drainage. We could also debate the point that roots need a "dry out period" but if that was really the case DWC won.t work. I get hella roots in DWC and coco with no dry periods. Hell running drippers 24/7 in coco on a flood table with smart pots I get a mass of roots out the side and bottom of the pots that are massive. Even when I'v done hempy buckets they dont get "over watered".


But again their are countless threads that debate this very same issue, my point is their is no such thing as "over watering" their is under oxygenation do to the lack of drainage or exchange of O2 rich water.

Your the best judge of your garden, I'm not saying your wrong. It is a sound method to correct over watering issues.

 

[AlphaPhase]

You have a point stchristopher. Oxygen is needed in Dwc or it won't work is 100% correct. But over watering can happen in hydro still, trust me. In ebb and grow buckets, there is no air stone. The water floods the buckets then drains. The draining sucks air from the top of the pots to the roots. It is impossible to have an air stone in the individual buckets of these systems... Unless you have it constant recirculation. In ebb buckets the system floods. Then drains. Too much will cause over watering.. Air atones in a remote res creating too much air will cause pathogens..

 

[AlphaPhase]

Also an air stone in the remote res will not fix the over watering issues... Can you explain? My buckets leave no water what so ever once drained. I have the new designed buckets with the bottoms that are slanted and the drain is at the bottom of the bucket instead of the sides. It leaves no water left after the drain.

 

[AlphaPhase]

Here's my setup. There's air in the main res. When it floods it creates 10x more air than an air stone. So I'm still standing by the point of my first post, unless there's something I'm missing, I'm all ears

 

[StChristopher]

At the core of the issue you calm "over watering" well....plants can grow in water as long as their is enough O2. So for you to "over water" it means their isnt enough O2 for some reason. Or over watering isnt the real issue.

Maybe I should have used my ebb and grow bucket longer, I may have more ground to stand on. I only used them for a year, but got sick of the labor, and went to a flood table and drippers.

But for me I seen no difference when I unhooked my bucket put them on a flood table. Instead of flooding a bucket I just dripped. I did find they liked the 24/7 drip over any cycled drip. As you can see my point or you should. You can either flood them or drip them but its still the same. The water still comes from a res and goes into the hydrtron filled bucket. The only difference is a timer figuratively speaking .

Also yes an air stone in your res will help, unless your nutes say different. (I have Orgainc nutes that do not want any air stones or to be PH before use)
You want your nute/water mix to be fully oxygenated. I wouldn't want to depend on the drainage cycle to be the only source of O2.

 

[AlphaPhase]

You make some relevant points but let's wait for some others to chime in. Ebb and grow is the easiest system I've ever used honestly, one remote res, mix nutes set the timer and that's it. Ive used aero, bubble buckets, flood tables, soil, pretty much everything.. This is my first ebb bucket system on my own though, i find it simple but im just having minor problems with it with only one strain. The whole point of ebb buckets is simplicity, eliminating airstone and things of the that nature and using gravity for oxygen. So technically, airstones are not needed, but I like to use one to get the res circulating.

 

[AlphaPhase]

Over watering symptoms in an ebb and grow bucket system. Here's a factual picture for reference.

 

[Dr.Pecker]

Do you have to trim your roots with an ebb and grow?How often do you have to change the res? the more i read about this stuff the more it sounds like a pain in the butt. Your plant dont look bad at all except for the second pic under the hps. I got my dwc all set up and ran for a day the hydroton was damp so i guess it works but the bottle floating around was blocking my airstone.the frozen water bottle idea sounds good. to improve on your water cooling system with a frozen bottle it would be best to set the bubble buckets in a larger container like a rubbermade tote and float the bottle outside of the buckets so it doesn't block the bubbles.

 

[Dr.Pecker]

What do you do when the power goes out?

 

[AlphaPhase]

What do you do when the power goes out?

This is my first run with ebb n grow, but when the power went out on my flood tables I would just pour res water in to the table every 6 hours or so and they are fine. With bubble buckets, there are battery powered air pumps. With the ebb and grow since I'm flooding every 8-9 hours, I figure the power would be back on by the next flood cycle, if not I would top feed until it came back on