Water: The Most Essential Compound

dcoukeking

New Member
In nature water can naturally occur in three states; it can exist as a liquid (water), a gas (water vapour) and as a solid (ice). At standard temperatures and pressures, water exists in a state of dynamic equilibrium between it's liquid and gaseous states. Ice, the solid form of water, only exists at relatively low temperatures (below water's freezing point of zero degrees Celsius).



Although under standard conditions water in its liquid state is the most commonly recognised form, it is not, theoretically the predicted state for water to exist in. If water's similarity to other analogous hydrides is considered then water should exist as a gas under standard conditions, and not as a liquid. For example hydrogen sulphide, which is chemically very similar to water, and is also a hydride, does not exist as a liquid under standard conditions, but as a gas. This property is a result of the polarity of water, described below, which leads to hydrogen bonding and strong interactions between water molecules.
 

squirt1961

Well-Known Member
What are Toal Dissolved Solids?
  • "Dissolved solids" refer to any minerals, salts, metals, cations or anions dissolved in water. This includes anything present in water other than the pure water (H20) molecule and suspended solids. (Suspended solids are any particles/substances that are neither dissolved nor settled in the water, such as wood pulp.)
  • In general, the total dissolved solids concentration is the sum of the cations (positively charged) and anions (negatively charged) ions in the water.
  • Parts per Million (ppm) is the weight-to-weight ratio of any ion to water.
  • A TDS meter is based on the electrical conductivity (EC) of water. Pure H20 has virtually zero conductivity. Conductivity is usually about 100 times the total cations or anions expressed as equivalents. TDS is calculated by converting the EC by a factor of 0.5 to 1.0 times the EC, depending upon the levels. Typically, the higher the level of EC, the higher the conversion factor to determine the TDS. NOTE - While a TDS meter is based on conductivity, TDS and conductivity are not the same thing. For more information on this topic, please see our FAQ page.
Where Do Dissolved Solids Come From?

  • Some dissolved solids come from organic sources such as leaves, silt, plankton, and industrial waste and sewage. Other sources come from runoff from urban areas, road salts used on street during the winter, and fertilizers and pesticides used on lawns and farms.
  • Dissolved solids also come from inorganic materials such as rocks and air that may contain calcium bicarbonate, nitrogen, iron phosphorous, sulfur, and other minerals. Many of these materials form salts, which are compounds that contain both a metal and a nonmetal. Salts usually dissolve in water forming ions. Ions are particles that have a positive or negative charge.
  • Water may also pick up metals such as lead or copper as they travel through pipes used to distribute water to consumers.
  • Note that the efficacy of water purifications systems in removing total dissolved solids will be reduced over time, so it is highly recommended to monitor the quality of a filter or membrane and replace them when required.
Why Should You Measure the TDS Level in Your Water?

The EPA Secondary Regulations advise a maximum contamination level (MCL) of 500mg/liter (500 parts per million (ppm)) for TDS. Numerous water supplies exceed this level. When TDS levels exceed 1000mg/L it is generally considered unfit for human consumption. A high level of TDS is an indicator of potential concerns, and warrants further investigation. Most often, high levels of TDS are caused by the presence of potassium, chlorides and sodium. These ions have little or no short-term effects, but toxic ions (lead arsenic, cadmium, nitrate and others) may also be dissolved in the water.
Even the best water purification systems on the market require monitoring for TDS to ensure the filters and/or membranes are effectively removing unwanted particles and bacteria from your water.
The following are reasons why it is helpful to constantly test for TDS:
Taste/HealthHigh TDS results in undesirable taste which could be salty, bitter, or metallic. It could also indicate the presence of toxic minerals. The EPA's rescommended maximum level of TDS in water is 500mg/L (500ppm). Filter performanceTest your water to make sure the reverse osmosis or other type of water filter or water purification system has a high rejection rate and know when to change your filter (or membrane) cartridges. HardnessHigh TDS indicates Hard water, which causes scale buildup in pipes and valves, inhibiting performance. Aquariums/AquacultureA constant level of minerals is necessary for aquatic life. The water in an aquarium or tank should have the same levels of TDS and pH as the fish and reef's original habitat. HydroponicsTDS is the best measurement of the nutrient concentration in a hydroponic solution. Pools and spasTDS levels must be monitored to prevent maintenance problems. Commercial/IndustrialHigh TDS levels could impede the functions of certain applications, such as boilers and cooling towers, food and water production and more. Colloidal silver waterTDS levels must be controlled prior to making colloidal silver. Coffee and Food ServiceFor a truly great cup of coffee, proper TDS levels must be maintained.
Car and window washingHave a washer with a spotless rinse? An inline dual TDS monitor will tell you when to change the filter cartridge or RO membrane.

*Chart values represent national U.S. averages. Actual TDS levels for geographic regions within the U.S. and other countries may vary.
Click here for the U.S. EPA's list of National Secondary Drinking Water Regulations.

Choose a TDS meter based on usage.
View differences between HM Digital handheld TDS/EC meters.
How Do You Reduce or Remove the TDS in Your Water?

Common water filter and water purification systems:
Carbon filtrationCharcoal, a form of carbon with a high surface area, adsorbs (or sticks to) many compounds, including some toxic compounds. Water is passed through activated charcoal to remove such contaminants. Reverse osmosis (R.O.)Reverse osmosis works by forcing water under great pressure against a semi-permeable membrane that allows water molecules to pass through while excluding most contaminants. RO is the most thorough method of large-scale water purification available. DistillationDistillation involves boiling the water to produce water vapor. The water vapor then rises to a cooled surface where it can condense back into a liquid and be collected. Because the dissolved solids are not normally vaporized, they remain in the boiling solution. Deionization (DI)Water is passed between a positive electrode and a negative electrode. Ion selective membranes allow the positive ions to separate from the water toward the negative electrode and the negative ions toward the positive electrode. High purity de-ionized water results. The water is usually passed through a reverse osmosis unit first to remove nonionic organic contaminants.

Source: HM Digital :leaf:
So what should I want my TDS reading to be looks like lower number the better for my plants tested today 156ppm is that good I'm using distilled water in an aerogarden
 

KushyKari

Active Member
I used bottled water for the first few wks on this harvest. I didn't notice a change when I started using my hose water. I like to bend my hose so a lot of oxygen fills the bottle as I'm filling. I water by hand a gallon at a time. People think I'm crazy,but I love taking the time with my girls. I make sure the water ph is specific on the dot of what I want. I've heard it's bad to let tap water sit as well. Better to fill and use immediately. When your watering over 50 girls it's really hard to stick with bottled water. The hose is more logical. Much easier and cheaper ✌
 

MickFoster

Well-Known Member
Forgive me if this has already been covered - but after the first few pages of reading the info from the original thread starter I wasn't able to read over 600 more replies. My tap water does not have chlorine - our city converted to chloramines over 10 years ago. I understand that chloramines do not evaporate like chlorine and was wondering if it was still ok for a grow in coco as is or do I have to use r/o water. My tap water ppm is around 150.
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
Unless you are in a polluted area, rain = RO for our purposes

If you happen to be growing in a natural soil, RO is groovy.
 

2Hearts

Well-Known Member
Forgive me if this has already been covered - but after the first few pages of reading the info from the original thread starter I wasn't able to read over 600 more replies. My tap water does not have chlorine - our city converted to chloramines over 10 years ago. I understand that chloramines do not evaporate like chlorine and was wondering if it was still ok for a grow in coco as is or do I have to use r/o water. My tap water ppm is around 150.
My water company list their water as 4ppm/l chloramines or less (the whole chloramine/chloromides thing is confusing and little info). This seems such a low level and at this low level i doubt it causes any problems but without a decent scientific survey etc etc i wouldnt give it the all clear.

Of the top of my head it is produced in a few ways, my particular water company state that they do not add the chemical but that it forms in very low doses as the result of adding new ammonia chemical systems on top of the old trusted chlorine systems i.e. Chlorine compounds + Ammonia compounds = Chloramines. I believe you can just buy a premade chemical salt and drop it in as well.

It does break down over time but until that point it is absorbable by the plant as a chemical element, it seems a lot less worrying but could be a consideration in larger hydro res's if left to build up. My water company also advise not to use tap water for hydro, and aquarium but that it is harmless for humans and soil plants i.e. dont panic its still safe to water your lawn.

A real point is that many people with chloramines in their water grow great plants inside and out and there are a lot more harmfull chemicals like fluoride etc. On the other hand any decent aquatic plant grower or aquariumist would never touch tap water till it has passed through an RO machine, these guys need way tighter controls on ph, temp, nutrients and alkalinity and more so coral growers.

I only know what i read on the stuff and peace of mind, an RO, machine round our parts cost £100 :-)
 

squirt1961

Well-Known Member
Does anyone know of an inexpensive RO system I can install myself. Distilled water was OK for just a few plants but next grow is gonna be biggger to impractical to use distilled water next time. Actually I guess I'm really looking for recommendations
 

ScrappyD

Active Member
From the few pages I read (couldn't read all 31 pages lol) it sounds like using tap water coming from a water softener is a bad idea due to the sodium/salt the water comes with. Do most people who have a water softener use other methods? In my area it would be considered odd for you to not have a softener because of how hard the water is. I've heard people say they use a hose, but if your hose is outside, how do you take water in the winter? If you still use the hose, do you get worried that your neighbours see you fill gallons of hose water every few days in the winter? And I'm also guessing you can still get Chloramine and other not great minerals in hose water as well?

I used to just buy the 5 gallon water jugs, though when you're in flower and feed each plant a gallon every other day or so, it gets pricey :)


p.s. GREAT THREAD and GREAT INFO!
 

redzi

Well-Known Member
I remember working at a small print shop years ago. They had to run "distilled" water in their printing press. What they used was a large filter that they leased ..it looked like a large extra fat industrial gas bottle about 5 feet high and twice as fat and it's shell made of fiberglass. It ran 110V through it and that electrical charge is what made solids stick to a membrane. Distilled water use to be a lot more expensive whey they actually heated it up to steam and condensed it back to water. I have just received a ppm meter along with chlorine test strips and I would just like to see what would happen running tap water through activated charcoal that has been used for odor control. The pellets are large and could be crushed to smaller size pieces...exposing surface area that has not attached itself to a contaminate. I just want to use soft chlorine free water to make teas with...the water around here comes from a lake with lots of lime stone.

I looked up local companies that supply filtration systems like the one some print shops use, they are some of the same companies that supply drinking water and dispensers to businesses. Just tell them you have a reef tank with expensive coral and need a compact system.
 
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tick tack toe

Well-Known Member
Need some advice from water people :) In trying to learn why my grows never seem to work out, water is my next variable to figure out. In my grows, a few weeks into flower, my leave start turning. It looks like a mag or phosphorus deficiency. I watch my ph going in, I've tried lower feeds spacing regular feeds but still same thing. I added epsom salt last grow but sadly ... far too much.

I've been researching my water (got an EC meter) and see that my base line is ec 0.7 and ph around 7.8. My city water supply says that I have 87.8mg/l of calcium and 13.5mg/l of magnesium. It is stated as hard water.

How should I approch this? do I need a r/o filter ... should I just top up on mag with epsom salts ... and not screw up with too much :) I'm growing in coco under LED lights.
 

2Hearts

Well-Known Member
I just saw a whole house RO system for $99.00 I might buy it next payday. Price is pretty good I thought. I'll post my review here once installed and checked out
Yer they are about that for a small one here, getting very available for the hobbyist grower.
 

Labs Dexter

Well-Known Member
I missed some pages too. I buy mineral water is that any good the ph is 6.2 my plants seem to absorb the neuts better too but wondering if hard water is okay my tap ph is 7.3 and I know is hard because have to change kettle every 6 months or so.. Just a curiosity because my back is getting worse and carrying ten liters is painful.. Any thoughts
 

borbor

Well-Known Member
I'm blessed with wonderful tap water, which is great for me, but I buy RO water at the store, those 5 gallon water cooler type containers cost me 10 bucks each, but now I have 4 and refill them for 39 cents a gallon whenever I feel like it, it's not expensive in the long run, and you pretty much know that the molecules in your water are hydrogen and oxygen at a 2 to 1 ratio and that's it, which is nice, just a pain in the ass to measure out gallons at a time to distribute nutrients without leaving nutrient solution unused sitting around for a couple of days, I waste a little pouring into one gallon containers over my bathtub
 

squirt1961

Well-Known Member
I'm blessed with wonderful tap water, which is great for me, but I buy RO water at the store, those 5 gallon water cooler type containers cost me 10 bucks each, but now I have 4 and refill them for 39 cents a gallon whenever I feel like it, it's not expensive in the long run, and you pretty much know that the molecules in your water are hydrogen and oxygen at a 2 to 1 ratio and that's it, which is nice, just a pain in the ass to measure out gallons at a time to distribute nutrients without leaving nutrient solution unused sitting around for a couple of days, I waste a little pouring into one gallon containers over my bathtub
Good idea I'll have to check it out I've been buying distilled water for 88 cents a gallon but can't find 5gallon containers for sale I think I'll look into 5 gallon containers of RO just have to find em. I also mix my nutes in one gal jugs and sometimes they sit for a few days till I do my water change. Does this effect the mix by sitting around? In the meantime I guess I should mix nutes right when I'm ready to use. Always did it early so I had plenty of time to adjust PH if needed.
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
See! THAT'S a great looking label. The fact that it's bullshit becomes irrelevant.

It would be much better to buy bullshit, in fact.

How good is it when your product is worse than bullshit ??
 
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