What Went Wrong (The Real Reason)..

[Fogdog]

Only now they have to pay for the unsubsidized plans and don't have enough money left over to make it through the deductible. If they decide not to, they have to pay a penalty to not receive healthcare. The low wage workers got totally screwed in WI. The one upside is for the people with serious healthcare needs who actually would have spent through their deductible, and people with preexisting conditions.

Low income people in WI were screwed when it's leaders opted out of the plan. It's my guess that people without coverage before ACA still don't have it. Low income people would have been covered under a subsidy if WI had opted in. It's a bad situation and I'm sure the people WI are all upset about the ACA yet, it was the actions of their own leaders that are really screwing those with low income. Am I wrong about this?

 

[churchhaze]

easy. obama was a black man who never explicitly called out their racism. hillary is white, and did. they saw their white privilege vanish. they got scared, because racists are pussies who just want to say they aren't racist.

Hey, I'm not going to disagree that wisconsin isn't way more racist than true blue states. There's WAY more racism in Milwaukee than say NY. I don't think that's the reason people voted for trump over hillary.

 

[churchhaze]

Low income people in WI were screwed when it's leaders opted out of the plan. It's my guess that people without coverage before ACA still don't have it. Low income people would have been covered under a subsidy if WI had opted in. It's a bad situation and I'm sure the people WI are all upset about the ACA yet, it was the actions of their own leaders that are really screwing those with low income. Am I wrong about this?

no

 

[RickyBobby26]

3 million fewer blacks voted this election than last.

The dems lost the rural white vote by a 3 to 1 margin.

Hillary unwisely referred to Trump supporters as "deplorables", further galvanizing them against her.

 

[UncleBuck]

Hillary unwisely referred to Trump supporters as "deplorables"

sometimes honesty is not the best policy. you poor little racists just hate getting your feelings hurt with the facts.

white fragility is real, folks.

 

[UncleBuck]

 

[Fogdog]

3 million fewer blacks voted this election than last.

The dems lost the rural white vote by a 3 to 1 margin.

Hillary unwisely referred to Trump supporters as "deplorables", further galvanizing them against her.

The election is so last week. Now that Trump won, he has to govern. Whatever he does with his health care plan will be attributed to him.

So, how about Trump's new plan? He told us he was going to scrap the ACA and replace it.

Ryan is planning to privatize Medicare, which will raise costs to the elderly by about $8,000 per year on top of what they would have paid. Also, no incentives to those providers to control costs. So, we already can see where this is heading.

Trump has not released any plans yet except he's for keeping a couple of nuggets already present in the ACA. Such as children-students can stay on parents plans until age 26. Also insurance companies can't reject people for pre-existing conditions. Sounds like ACA in all but name is shaping up to be Trump's plan.

One feature of the ACA were real cost control measures that everybody agreed to. No word on if Trump even understands this.

 

[UncleBuck]

One feature of the ACA were real cost control measures that everybody agreed to. No word on if Trump even understands this.

giuliani said he googled it last week, so we should be good.

 

[tangerinegreen555]

3 million fewer blacks voted this election than last.

The dems lost the rural white vote by a 3 to 1 margin.

Hillary unwisely referred to Trump supporters as "deplorables", further galvanizing them against her.

Only half were deplorables, actually considerably less than half seeing as she got over a million more popular votes. So, like it or not, she was indeed more popular.

Speaking of popular, remember that thread that got locked last Easter when you were playing the Zara role?

 

[schuylaar]

The election is so last week. Now that Trump won, he has to govern. Whatever he does with his health care plan will be attributed to him.

So, how about Trump's new plan? He told us he was going to scrap the ACA and replace it.

Ryan is planning to privatize Medicare, which will raise costs to the elderly by about $8,000 per year on top of what they would have paid. Also, no incentives to those providers to control costs. So, we already can see where this is heading.

Trump has not released any plans yet except he's for keeping a couple of nuggets already present in the ACA. Such as children-students can stay on parents plans until age 26. Also insurance companies can't reject people for pre-existing conditions. Sounds like ACA in all but name is shaping up to be Trump's plan.

One feature of the ACA were real cost control measures that everybody agreed to. No word on if Trump even understands this.

The first step in a progressive playbook is to govern without owing anyone anything in order to do what's right for the people

Trump achieved this using his own money. But he's going to learn even with this, there is going to be ALOT he cannot do with the checks and balances system in place. It's easier said than done.

On day one after election, the news was 'amend'.

 

[schuylaar]

Only half were deplorables, actually considerably less than half seeing as she got over a million more popular votes. So, like it or not, she was indeed more popular.

Speaking of popular, remember that thread that got locked last Easter when you were playing the Zara role?

Was that ZaraBeth? Jesus @RickyBobby26 you never told me that..

I'm beginning to think there's like 12 people on this site.

 

[londonfog]

Was that ZaraBeth? Jesus @RickyBobby26 you never told me that..

I'm beginning to think there's like 12 people on this site.

you should know

 

[londonfog]

Only half were deplorables, actually considerably less than half seeing as she got over a million more popular votes. So, like it or not, she was indeed more popular.

Speaking of popular, remember that thread that got locked last Easter when you were playing the Zara role?

you know it really not the puppets who are create and still spout the same thing the owner say. That puppet is just a back-up mouth piece. The REAL problem is when fools create a puppet that is the opposite of the owner. Example. would be a owner who is for Bernie and then the puppet is for Trump. It's like WTF.
That shit should not be allowed. You even have the fools having debates with themselves. fucking silly.
I'm all for this site getting a lot of traffic, but do we really need that to make it work ?

 

[st0wandgrow]

There certainly was a difficulty getting people enthusiastic about her. Her campaign at the lowest levels operated with grim determination rather than dedicated energy for the candidate.

I think losing might have been a good thing. We'll see. It depends on how badly Trump fucks it up.

I agree. This loss had to happen. Rock bottom so to speak. If losing an election to an orange, racist, sexist, homophobe doesn't wake up the DNC then nothing will.

Elizabeth Warren for potus 2020.

 

[st0wandgrow]

Could you imagine being married to something like her. OMFG
@schuylaar do you do this to seek attention. Do you always feel the need to be the center of attention ? Have you ever been referred to as a drama queen ? I'm only asking to get a better understanding of this bullshit.
I realize that your bigotry comes from some of your upbringing and also who you picked as a marriage partner, but this coupled with your other fucking problems is becoming more than one can bear.

Coming from the guy that mocked Schuylar for supporting Bernie instead of Hillary. She told you this outcome would happen, but you just couldn't see it coming.

Is your bottom sore that she was right on the money and you look like a fool now?

 

[st0wandgrow]

Nothing would have changed the outcome.

Those who elected Obama did not show for Clinton..Obama was the change president over Clinton in 2008, the expectation that they would show because Obama said so was not enough.

Adoption of Sanders platform was not enough.

Adoption of Sanders platform BY HER wasn't enough. When you're caught on tape admitting that you have one set of bullshit principals that you feed to the public, and an entirely different set of principals in private that benefits corporate America, it's not going to matter.

She was the wrong horse to run. Period.

 

[st0wandgrow]

I think the increasing premiums played a very large part in Trump winning. I'm an independent who voted for Clinton, but I suspect that the democrats will not back away from supporting their unpopular healthcare law even in 2018 and will fail to take back the majority from either house.

It was so unpopular, it screwed democrats over in 2010. Instead of dropping the issue, they pushed even harder and now Trump is president, republicans own both houses, and the next few supreme court justices will be conservative. Whether you agree with Obamacare or not, I'd say you're in denial if you don't see that as one of the main reasons for losing both 2010 and now.

"we lost because not enough people went out to vote" is like saying "We lost because we didn't score enough touchdowns." Indeed, getting people to vote for you is the name of the game. Duh.

The question is... will democrats keep pushing mandatory corporate insurance and rising premiums, or will they come up with a better idea that can actually win back congress?

(even though I am clearly attacking obamacare, the point of this post is to explain why I think the republicans own the government, not to argue principle. Republicans own congress for a reason)

Obamacare is unpopular because its a ridiculous compromise drafted by the health insurance lobby. They didnt go far enough with it.

Bernie was stumping for a single payer system. Medicare for all...and he would have taken the White House with that as part of his platform.

 

[londonfog]

Coming from the guy that mocked Schuylar for supporting Bernie instead of Hillary. She told you this outcome would happen, but you just couldn't see it coming.

Is your bottom sore that she was right on the money and you look like a fool now?

Do you know she has NEVER NEVER NEVER has placed a vote for Bernie Sanders.
Why would my bottom be sore ? I keep telling you fools. YOU will be hurt by this more than me.
I'm going to chill for the next four years still collecting quarters and stacking retirement check. and you ??

 

[Fogdog]

Adoption of Sanders platform BY HER wasn't enough. When you're caught on tape admitting that you have one set of bullshit principals that you feed to the public, and an entirely different set of principals in private that benefits corporate America, it's not going to matter.

She was the wrong horse to run. Period.

There are a lot of people with sore behinds. Myself included, who voted for Bernie in the primary and Clinton in the general because I thought they were better candidates than anything the GOP could produce. Also including people who stood down during the election because they couldn't vote for either. Many of those woke to a Trump president and were disappointed too.

Do you really think that Trump is going to do a better job at containing healthcare cost increases and bring forward a better deal than the ACA? 20 million people have healthcare coverage that did not in 2008. Scrapping the ACA will cut them loose.

The only firm proposal out there regarding health care is from Paul Ryan, who is proposing privatizing medicare. Just the opposite of what Bernie or even Clinton supported. Ryan's plan for prosperity or some such named legislation would cap govt. medicare spending where it is right now and shove seniors from the government run program with vouchers for private insurance that only partially cover purchase price of medical coverage from the private sector. No thought is given to containing costs in this program unlike the tangible cost savings that were made under the ACA. The average senior will pay 8000 per year more for health care coverage under Ryan's plan than any other proposal to simply address funding shortfalls for Medicare. Cost controls implemented under the ACA reduced medicare funding issues too. The whole system was working better. But people see price rises and claim failure. I understand this but am disappointed that people don't dig a little further into the reasons why.

Those price rises for coverage were due to GOP congress's failure to fund the ACA as spelled out in the original legislation. If interested, http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2016/06/moda_sues_us_government_demand.html

I'd prefer a government run single payer system too. I saw the ACA as a path toward that, not as an end in itself. Doesn't look like that's going to happen.

 

[ttystikk]

From the numbers I saw, Obama won in 2008 and 2012, he had a much higher turn out for voters compared to Hillary. People didn't really turn out as much for Hillary.
So, I think this just speaks as Hillary being the weak candidate, rather than an uprising of angry whites or whatever.

I think this is an excellent point.