considering modding my dwc for better o2

[NapalmZen]

I currently have a standard DWC system with six buckets in a grow tent and i have heard that DWC can have adverse affects as the medium is water and lacks o2 as compared to other designs .

i came up with an idea that would be inexpensive as a modification and am wondering if anyone has tried something similar.

the main purpose of this idea is to get rid of noisy air pumps and allow more o2 to get to the roots.

i can change to larger media baskets or make my own that reach just above the water.

any ideas or advice is greatly appreciated. and sorry for the potato image. i only have ms pain to work with.

 

[Budley Doright]

Don't think your going to improve on the lack of DO, I could be wrong but it may be worse as the water flows down the roots into the bucket. The issue with DWC as I see it is the middle of the root ball is lacking in DO. Perhaps if you added DO to the control bucket that may help. I drilled a small hole at a 65 degree angle in the discharge nozzle of the pump that shoots a stream of water up out of the water but more importantly I chill the water . Without chilling the water I was growing plants but never to their full potential, still not but now it's just on me lol.

 

[NapalmZen]

Atm I am using 6 closed DWC buckets. I wanted to add this as it has the potential to allow the roots to pull air from the atmosphere as opposed to the water while still maintaining moisture and nutes.

I am hoping for a potentially simplified version of aeroponics. I know it won't be the same as its a drip as opposed to a mist, but it may have similar potential.

I don't know if it works like that though which is what I'm asking.

EDIT: are you saying that you built a mister in your rez to increase DO?

my buckets are a pain to access for checking ph and ppm. so building like this would give me a rez for my daily checks.

since im currently using a noisy air pump, i am hoping i can either get rid of the need for an air pump or be able to use a much smaller one in the rez. perhaps even electrolysis in the rez.

 

[ttystikk]

I used waterfalls for oxygenation and agitation in my RDWC. Very effective, no air pumps.

 

[NapalmZen]

I used waterfalls for oxygenation and agitation in my RDWC. Very effective, no air pumps.

wow, i just looked up waterfall RDWC and found some amazing info. the best piece is that if you can make an aerator fit on the outlet it will similar to a kitchen sink which creates micro bubbles that can take minutes to clear in a glass of water. with just a sump, there would be no need for an air pump.

the more i research, the more complex i keep wanting to make my build.

 

[ttystikk]

wow, i just looked up waterfall RDWC and found some amazing info. the best piece is that if you can make an aerator fit on the outlet it will similar to a kitchen sink which creates micro bubbles that can take minutes to clear in a glass of water. with just a sump, there would be no need for an air pump.

the more i research, the more complex i keep wanting to make my build.

Those aerators will clog.

 

[Budley Doright]

So here's what I do. I have a tote on tote, with the top one more of a covered tray with 6 net pots (to many LOL) I flood the top with a 360 gpm pump that creates a jet of water that hits the lid of the upper tray and creates a massive rain storm in there, I use an ebb and flow fitting with 150 m screen which keeps roots out of bottom to adjust flood height. There is no standing water in the upper chamber after a flood as it drains back through the pump. Water is chilled to 66 F and res is also fed with a waterfall from the chiller discharge pipe. I can move just the upper trays with netpots to each room as required and res's stay . It's not great as it would be nice to have individual pots like you but there are also advantages . Even with roots dangling in the air you can still have rot, check out my think different thread and the now what thread and see what happened with my LP aero run, worse thing I've ever had happen, learned a shit pile though .

Edit: And as usual a shout out to tty and others for convincing me a chiller was essential for a flooded system to thrive.

 

[mandy1]

if you hang your air pump on 3-4 bungees it will significantly dampen the sound. if your doing dwc, the more air to the root zone the better. ive also found that you want your nutrient solution as close to the bottom of the net pot as possible. this will encourage more roots and finer roots that uptake nutes better. also the more solution you have in your buckets, the less ph fluctuation you'll have. good luck

 

[NapalmZen]

it is hanging. ill switch to bungies when i can as it seems like a good idea for dampening vibrations. the buckets also vibrate quite vigorously so im installing a 3/4 yoga mat under the splash tray.

i have one bucket that has higher water than the others that i use atm to record temps. so far with everything running full blast, the temps stay around 72-73 degrees. without converting to a RDWC, i don't know how a chiller will work. i think ill do something similar to the design i came up with and follow your recommendations. but if im using a res, ill be trying electrolysis, a uv filter, and perhaps garden sprinklers in the buckets.

i read quite a few of your threads Budley. i wanted to thank you for the info i learned and wanted to let you know i put much of that in my notes and changed several procedures. not all of that info was from you, but it came from your threads.

 

[Budley Doright]

it is hanging. ill switch to bungies when i can as it seems like a good idea for dampening vibrations. the buckets also vibrate quite vigorously so im installing a 3/4 yoga mat under the splash tray.

i have one bucket that has higher water than the others that i use atm to record temps. so far with everything running full blast, the temps stay around 72-73 degrees. without converting to a RDWC, i don't know how a chiller will work. i think ill do something similar to the design i came up with and follow your recommendations. but if im using a res, ill be trying electrolysis, a uv filter, and perhaps garden sprinklers in the buckets.

i read quite a few of your threads Budley. i wanted to thank you for the info i learned and wanted to let you know i put much of that in my notes and changed several procedures. not all of that info was from you, but it came from your threads.

The aero run was whole bunch of fuck up lol. I have been real busy and am just trying to find time to get things going again in side .

 

[cat of curiosity]

it is hanging. ill switch to bungies when i can as it seems like a good idea for dampening vibrations. the buckets also vibrate quite vigorously so im installing a 3/4 yoga mat under the splash tray.

i have one bucket that has higher water than the others that i use atm to record temps. so far with everything running full blast, the temps stay around 72-73 degrees. without converting to a RDWC, i don't know how a chiller will work. i think ill do something similar to the design i came up with and follow your recommendations. but if im using a res, ill be trying electrolysis, a uv filter, and perhaps garden sprinklers in the buckets.

i read quite a few of your threads Budley. i wanted to thank you for the info i learned and wanted to let you know i put much of that in my notes and changed several procedures. not all of that info was from you, but it came from your threads.

once roots are out of the net, you no longer need to keep a lower level. you can submerge the entire root ball
(and must, unless you have small plants or are watering several times daily). i veg dwc plants to 3' in height before flip, and at full flower, they drink up to two gallons of water a day (and with a massive rootball, can only fit 3g in the bucket). i fill to the top twice daily, approx 2g per day per bucket.

 

[NapalmZen]

. i veg dwc plants to 3' in height before flip, and at full flower, they drink up to two gallons of water a day (and with a massive rootball, can only fit 3g in the bucket). i fill to the top twice daily, approx 2g per day per bucket.

In other words, buy a filtration system.

 

[Budley Doright]

In other words, buy a filtration system.

Don't think that's what he was implying . I do use hydroguard and while I have no proof that it works I am a believer that it does as witnessed by my massive root mat and the general health of the plants. I have heard that it does allow for higher temps as well. I also use Vitanimo and that has stopped all of the blotching I used to get, I'm on well water and I believe it helps with calcium uptake . Keep us posted as to the system u are thinking about.

 

[cat of curiosity]

In other words, buy a filtration system.

if running a recirc, then yes, probably. you don't want roots to clog your plumbing.

but no, your water pump (if you use one, not necessary for dwc) should be in a small micron filter/sediment bag. but not where i was going.

a 6'' net pot in a 5g bucket will displace around one gallon of water. so your 5g bucket holds 4g with no root mass. you can fit up to 4g of nutrient solution in the bucket. after roots grow out of the net pot, you don't need to 'trick' the roots out, you can completely submerge them as long as the water is below 68f and is well aerated. with a 3' plant in flower, the root mass should displace another gallon or more from the available 'res' (ie your bucket). this means you can fit 3g of nutrient solution into the 'res' aka bucket (if not using an external res). dwc is a powerhouse of a hydro technique, and plants bush and blow the fuck up. it's usual to get 1g of drinking/transpiration per day, with 2+g not only possible, but probable. nutes should be replaced once you have topped off to the amount of the original nutrient solution.

in other words, if you can only fit 3g in an empty bucket (due to root mass and net pot), then after topping off with 3g of fresh water, you should change the res. some simply add low nute top offs and wait a week, but this doesn't allow you to take advantage of the full nutrient uptake. ppms can spike if it's using more p/k and nitrogen builds up, or vice versa (or any combination you could imagine). a big rez recirc helps this tremendously, as you can change weekly instead of twice a week.

in the end, it's how much you want to spend, how much prep you want to get into, and how much work you're willing to do. single buckets with 2+lb plants can be done individually, but it means you need to be there every day to tend them. a recirc with a large rez can (but not always) allow you to forget about it for a couple of days, in case you can't be there to stay on top of it.

if this seems like a bs rambling post, it's because i'm stoned. just quote and ask if you'd like details or if i missed something/misspoke...

 

[Budley Doright]

I use 150 micron screen on all drains to stop any roots or debris but if you do use them make them accessible

 

[cat of curiosity]

I use 150 micron screen on all drains to stop any roots or debris but if you do use them make them accessible

also good to brush root mass aside from the filter cloth when it's bushing out. feeders can cling and grow through the mesh if you just set it and forget it. once water roots ball up, you're pretty much good for the rest of flower. you want free flowing plumbing, and never let roots get to your pump.

 

[NapalmZen]

I meant a water filtration system for toppin off. I'm using tap water X 6 buckets meaning that at 1-2 gallons per day per plant I would need 6-12 gallons a day with a 48 hour wait period to let the chlorine evaporate.

So without a water filter I could have between 24-48+ gallons of water sitting around the house daily.

If I understood what you guys said.

Luckily I have extra buckets for this system, as I plan on upgrading to a RDWC but I can do it over time without interrupting the current system. just by swapping net pots onto a RDWC bucket.

As far as a rez, I came up with the idea of using 2 totes. one for return that has staged filtration using different sized stainless screens and finally a superfine cloth screen or something akin to a k&n before going to the return tote.

The return tote would have a UV aquarium filter, cooler, electrolysis aerator, and a sump.

But at this point, I plan on keeping it how it is to see weather or not I want to put the money and time to make it happen.

Side note, would hot glue be a problem inside the rez?


EDIT: when i have time ill draw a my new build idea and calculate costs. it's sad, but i may not have enough room in this tent, so i may be forced to use it for autos or starting. with a future tent build i can legally grow 6 SCROG screens for some massive yields.

we have stinkbugs though, so ill only do tents. one of those living in a grow room can kill a crop.

 

[Budley Doright]

also good to brush root mass aside from the filter cloth when it's bushing out. feeders can cling and grow through the mesh if you just set it and forget it. once water roots ball up, you're pretty much good for the rest of flower. you want free flowing plumbing, and never let roots get to your pump.

With the 150 micron I haven't had a issue with roots going through it but ya that's why I went wit 150

 

[Budley Doright]

I meant a water filtration system for toppin off. I'm using tap water X 6 buckets meaning that at 1-2 gallons per day per plant I would need 6-12 gallons a day with a 48 hour wait period to let the chlorine evaporate.

So without a water filter I could have between 24-48+ gallons of water sitting around the house daily.

If I understood what you guys said.

Luckily I have extra buckets for this system, as I plan on upgrading to a RDWC but I can do it over time without interrupting the current system. just by swapping net pots onto a RDWC bucket.

As far as a rez, I came up with the idea of using 2 totes. one for return that has staged filtration using different sized stainless screens and finally a superfine cloth screen or something akin to a k&n before going to the return tote.

The return tote would have a UV aquarium filter, cooler, electrolysis aerator, and a sump.

But at this point, I plan on keeping it how it is to see weather or not I want to put the money and time to make it happen.

Side note, would hot glue be a problem inside the rez?


EDIT: when i have time ill draw a my new build idea and calculate costs. it's sad, but i may not have enough room in this tent, so i may be forced to use it for autos or starting. with a future tent build i can legally grow 6 SCROG screens for some massive yields.

we have stinkbugs though, so ill only do tents. one of those living in a grow room can kill a crop.

I keep forgetting about chlorine, I'm on a well. My water is uv sterilized though (whole house), and yup still got rot lol. I'm a firm believer that if your using any type of recuirculating setup you really need to chill the water to reap full benefit. What the fuck is a stink bug, pretty sure I wouldn't like stink bugs lol.

 

[NapalmZen]

. What the fuck is a stink bug, pretty sure I wouldn't like stink bugs lol.

It's an invasive asian shieldbeetle that shoots a stench that attracts more when it dies. they consume plant matter and are basically immune to poison.

They are huge, attracted to light, have no predators, migrate by the thousands, and have a 2+year lifespan.


The proper way to kill them is to dunk them in soapy water and toss them in the toilet.