Fogdog
Well-Known Member
If you are going to demand proof from others you should at least try to be accurate yourself. Hillary won the working class vote in most states, red and blue.
Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in the US
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Justice Democrats are the future.@Padawanbater2
sanders lost.. hillary lost. now we got a complete moron as president. we got bigger things to worry about other than would of's, could of's, should of's
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Fair enough.
Now that Mrs Clinton is a confirmed two time loser, it's time to move on.
I choose to support this platform and ANYONE who runs on it;
https://justicedemocrats.com/Platform
It's my opinion this agenda serves my needs and those of the vast majority of my fellow countrymen far better than those of the establishment corporatist shills currently running both the Republican and the Democratic parties.
And I'll vote for it going forward. That's what a thoughtful citizen is supposed to do with their vote, isn't it? I'm done with the 'lesser of two evils' excuses.
This just happens to be almost a perfect carbon copy of Bernie Sanders' platform.
All the crying about how he DIDN'T win conveniently obscures the achievement of his campaign; that a sensible platform coupled with small donations CAN make an enormous difference.
At the title of this thread points out, he's the most popular politician in America. Where's your proof he isn't?
srh88
Well-Known Member
i think anyone has a chance to be our future after trump
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
While this may be true, I'd like to see us choose the best alternative rather than more of the same 'not quite as bad' choices the establishment will attempt to shove down our throats.
https://justicedemocrats.com/Platform
Is there any part of this platform you DON'T agree with? I'd very much like to hear your thoughts, or anyone else's on this.
srh88
Well-Known Member
everything on there is good... this 2 might conflict though.. theres going to be a lot of assholes still running around even after trump.. also kind of contradicting. although i do agree with all of it. but if someones being a racist asshole i want to be able to call them out on it
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ttystikk
Well-Known Member
This confusion is common. The way it isn't a conflict is to remember that while you're free to say something, you're also responsible for the consequences of what you say.
Bigoted and hate speech- or even yelling, 'FIRE!' in a crowded theater- may be protected but they don't protect the speaker from consequences such as ostracism, loss of job, or even lawsuits for injury or defamation.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I agree with everything you say, save the last sentence.
Americans have been told what to believe and think for a very long time. Those who do the telling have an agenda, usually one of self interest.
When I speak to my fellow middle class Americans, I find that Mr Sanders' views are very much the mainstream and the advertised policies of both traditional parties are far too conservative.
This is why I believe a huge change in American politics is coming. How soon it arrives depends entirely on how much longer the average American is willing to listen to those telling us what to think.
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Democrats are not monolithic in ideology. I absolutely agree that NOW is the time to push the party to change and improve as each sees fit. We have time to push our own agenda before the election cycle begins. Not everybody is going to get what they want. Maybe nobody is going to get everything. Elections are about making a choice and as the election cycle proceeds, choices become limited. Not everybody is going to be enthralled with the new candidate or the party platform at the time of the 2018 elections. If all factions in the Democratic Party demand their specific set of requirements be met "or else" then the door is left open to another Republican win.
Where you and I part ways is this idea that "if I can't get all I want, I won't vote". If by doing so Republicans end up in control, you will be OK. Others in the party like LGBT, Muslims, Latins and other minorities that make up considerable numbers in the party will not be OK. To them, what you espouse is simply white guy self interest.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I think you confuse what people say with who they vote for. I agree with @vostok in that middle America is casting votes for conservatives. Doesn't his indicate that middle America is more conservative than Sanders? I've had conversations with conservatives and find the same as you in that we agree on what we want for the people of the US. They believe leaders with conservative ideology will accomplish this.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I like that platform just fine. I like the Green Party platform. GP aren't going to win seats in US Congress 2018, however. Maybe some local seats will be filled by the Greens.
esh dov ets
Well-Known Member
It's not Bernie supporters fault.. however if there where no Bernie there would have been more Hillary votes and less abstaining. Bernies's message mixed with propaganda called attention to the game. Perhaps just enough attention ,, the propaganda twisted it and trump won. Even Bernie got played.
esh dov ets
Well-Known Member
middle class holds up the rich standing on the shoulders of the very poor.
Not wealthy themselves they think they are climbers; because a few are allowed to.
So they support the rich not the poor since that's where they think they are heading.
so they support the very rich thinking fat cat support them. They don't.
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vostok
Well-Known Member
In my view, the NSA is out of control and operating in an unconstitutional manner. I worry very much about kids growing up in a society where they think 'I'm not going to talk about this issue, read this book, or explore this idea because someone may think I'm a terrorist.' That is not the kind of free society I want for our children(Sanders, source Wiki)
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Don't lump me in with the blindly idealistic. I DID vote for Mrs Clinton in the general, remember.
For now, I'll push my ideal agenda and support those candidates whose positions most closely match it. As we get closer to election day, I'll make the very same calculations you suggest- but there will be some lines I won't cross.
One of these is campaign finance reform.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I was responding to the done with lesser evils statement. I do recall you voting for Clinton in the important Colorado presidential race. The time to make important changes in primary rules, DNC leadership, DNC operating rules, and other problems identified in 2016 is now. Now is also time to kick up a fuss about the corrupting influence of campaign finances by Wall Street and Super Pacs. I'm all for it now, not later.
I don't understand how you can say "I'm done with the lesser of two evils excuse" then say you aren't blindly idealistic. I completely expect that the primary candidate I support will lose. They always do. And I vote always Democratic ticket because Republican candidates are always odious.
It's also true that if a modern day George Wallace runs on the Democratic Party ticket that I'd withhold my vote so it's not as if my vote has no restrictions.
I'll vote for who I see as the best candidate in the primary and barring another Wallace, it's going to be for whomever wins the Democratic Party's nomination in the general. Much to @Padawanbater2 's disappointment. Eight years of a Trump presidency or assuming Trump is removed by a 2018 Democratic controlled Congress, 6 years of Pence is impossible for me to contemplate gladly.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I'll be surprised if we don't start seeing quite a few candidates across the country running under the Justice Democrats banner.
Maybe they should call it the Freedom Party.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I think you and I see American politics from a very similar perspective, leading me to feel like debating our differences often boils down to a hair splitting exercise.
I pledge to attempt to find common ground with those of differing views as much as possible, in the service of supporting the platform espoused by the Justice Democrats. Regardless of the labels we attach to ourselves, I've been finding that once the discussion gets down to actual issues, there is a great deal of consensus.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
i just pointed it out. look again.