Quantum Boards or COBS?

[CobKits]

You're crazy bro, all the big grow ops here in colorado use DE lights with a 2:1 combination of HPS/MH , you just talking out your ass again. DE lights are THE BEST for warehouse grows PERIOD.

not getting into it with you man

just because a lot of warehouses use something has zero bearing on what is "the best"

if i had 1/4 mil or more invested into HPS fixtures id stretch out as long as possible too, thats just business.

2-3 years ago DEs were a better bargain. thats an eon ago in terms of LED cost and efficiency

 

[Yodaweed]

1150 watts at the wall for a 1000W gavita @ 0.15/KWH = $755/year
725W at the wall for a 675W cob rig = $476/year

and yields the same 2.5+ units when dialed in

You got proof or more baseless claims? Every side by side i see the DE smashes the LEDs.

 

[Yodaweed]

not getting into it with you man

just because a lot of warehouses use something has zero bearing on what is "the best"

if i had 1/4 mil or more invested into HPS fixtures id stretch out as long as possible too, thats just business.

2-3 years ago DEs were a better bargain. thats an eon ago in terms of LED cost and efficiency

DE prices are going down, I totally understand you have a vested interest in LEDs and it's bad for business to tell the truth but don't lie to me i see right thru it.

 

[CobKits]

sounds like it works for you and you should stick with it! no shortage of led grows around here yielding top shelf product at well over 1.5 GPW

ive personally never ever ever heard of anybody pulling close to 4 lbs with a 1150W DE

usually if they can get any where 3 units per fixture (1.2GPY) theyre ecstatic

and gavitas are very much $400+ 2 bulb changes = well over $500 even without a reflector change

the same priced cob rig would save nearly $100 a year in electricity if it was "only" 10% more efficient (not considering savings in heat load)

in reality experience has shown that watt per watt the best leds right now are 25-35% more efficient than arc tubes in PPFD/W and the 3000-3500k 80 and 90cri spectrums are proven performers

ill take a look at nevergoodenufs thread later when i get to a better internet connection. pics are ginormous and i cant load them on this connection

 

[Budies 101]

Whats a commercial grow?

Growing large scale for money. It won't matter if it's illegal or legal, home or rented space. HPS is an inferior light, that's why it needs near 2x the watts to do what LED can do. If someone disagrees that ok, if they want to grow with HPS that's ok too. HPS works great, for now.

Again, just my opinion. And while I don't think LED tech will get THAT much better in 5 years, what we see happening is companies slowly building LED lights that are "better" in quality of parts (chips). At some point LED's will be the lowest cost in building the light.

Once it was about LED's not being as good as HPS period, now it's about how much better (efficient) do you want your LED lights over HPS.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Budies 101]

DE prices are going down, I totally understand you have a vested interest in LEDs and it's bad for business to tell the truth but don't lie to me i see right thru it.

I don't agree. If you build the lights yourself it's almost equal in cost per sqft of light to space.

It costs me around 200$ to build a 240 watt possible light and I'm not doing mass, 100 + on drivers and such for discounts.

 

[HydroLynx]

@Yodaweed , you have committed several logical fallacies, the rest of us would like to get down to the truth of things. Debate without anecdotes, assumptions, and esp character attacking please . CobKits shot your argument down using comparative math--he has financial bias, but his clientele will likely shoot him down if he slips up once on this forum, so he has little financial incentive to "talk out his ass". I don't know what's better, LED or HPS, but at this stage of my research I will move towards the most logical argument, not the most sensationalised one. You not gonna convince anyone of your valuable experience by rudeness alone. Forum decorum

 

[a mongo frog]

@Yodaweed , you have committed several logical fallacies, the rest of us would like to get down to the truth of things. Debate without anecdotes, assumptions, and esp character attacking please . CobKits shot your argument down using comparative math--he has financial bias, but his clientele will likely shoot him down if he slips up once on this forum, so he has little financial incentive to "talk out his ass". I don't know what's better, LED or HPS, but at this stage of my research I will move towards the most logical argument, not the most sensationalised one. You not gonna convince anyone of your valuable experience by rudeness alone. Forum decorum

Dude it is true that DE's are off the hook, the Green Power Bulb is the greatest thing ever invented. The Nanolux fixtures are 300 bucks here in Northern California. Bro they're basically giving away free weed out here and its something special!!!

 

[Fevs]

I switched to cob from hps, mh, cmh, blurple led and T5.

See I don't know much about commercial grows, but I do know lots about filling tents with buds, in small apartments, in multiple rooms.

So I have 2 spare rooms. Both are quite small. So in the winter I could grow with a 1000w hps in each, but that is it, the whole place would be so hot I would have two 4ft x 4ft tents and nothing more.

For me these comparison grows make it difficult for themselves. If I did a comparison grow, I would do one 4ft x 4ft tent with 1000w hps vs two 4ft x 4ft tents with 500w of cob in each. That also raises another point. Could I not cut the time half with 2 tents using the same amount of electricity? Do people take that into consideration.

My set up was 3500w + fans. Costing me £900 every 3 months.

My set up is now:

4ft x 4ft tent 450w cobs
4ft x 4ft tent 450w cobs
3ft x 3ft tent 300w cobs
3ft x 3ft tent 300w cobs
1.5ft x 2.5ft 100w cobs
2.5ft x 2.5ft 90 blurple led.

I will add that I've been vegging on half power too. My panels are pre made so I can have the 450w panels at 200w, 250w or 450w. My 300w panels are running on half power at 150w.

Vegging 6 set up's, on 990w, plus a few clip on fans and 5'' extraction. The windows are almost closed to keep the ambient temps up high enough. I'm saving a fuck load of money in electricity! I'm using just less than 1/4 of what I was using. In flowering on full power I'll be using just 1690w, including the veg tents usage too.

My 250w hps (275w draw) never vegged as well as my 250w of cobs.



Efficiency ain't eve the main reason why I switched either. I have complex ptsd from when I abused as a child. Jesus fucking Christ... is it just me, or do the loud extraction fans not severely fuck with your heads? That's the reason I changed, because it was sending me crazy sleeping in what sounded like a factory. WEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR all night long 24/7. Drove me nuts man!

It's not far off silent now!

Don't always assume efficiency is the best reason the change to cobs. For me, quiet extraction with double the grow area is far more appealing than figures.

 

[a mongo frog]

For me these comparison grows make it difficult for themselves. If I did a comparison grow, I would do one 4ft x 4ft tent with 1000w hps vs two 4ft x 4ft tents with 500w of cob in each.

Why give away the space though? Why would one run 450 watts in a 4x4 to get lb+? There are folks getting 2 doors in a 4x4 on single ended ups on this site. And people getting 3.75 doors in 24-25 square feet all over the world!!!!

 

[cdgmoney250]

Dude it is true that DE's are off the hook, the Green Power Bulb is the greatest thing ever invented.

 

[Fevs]

Why give away the space though? Why would one run 450 watts in a 4x4 to get lb+? There are folks getting 2 doors in a 4x4 on single ended ups on this site. And people getting 3.75 doors in 24-25 square feet all over the world!!!!

What are you talking about, why give away space?? I've got 6 set up's instead of 2. I have almost doubled my space, which I can do because I switched to cobs. I actually fancy my chances of getting over 1lb from 250w veg, then 450w in flowering.

Ok, look into it a bit further. In the summer it's too hot to run 1000w lamps anyway.. So would have to use 600w lamps in a 4x4 then.

Can I ask do the growers that use 1000w lamps include the air conditioning 'they don't need under cobs' in the efficiency figures? No, they never do, nor do they include they 10% extra draw the ballast draws. Nor do they include the cost of the extraction running on double the watts.

So for me to run a 1000w lamps all year round, it would be 1100w actual draw from the ballast + 2kw air con in each room...

I'm still not seeing the benefits of using 1000w lamps in small bedrooms...

 

[a mongo frog]

View attachment 3946544

Yes there is tons of it.

 

[a mongo frog]

Can I ask do the growers that use 1000w lamps include the air conditioning 'they don't need under cobs' in the efficiency figures?

No............

 

[Fevs]

No............

Well the overall efficiency figures for the grow would change by loads. I do include things like that.

In reality if you have to run a 2kw air con for a 1000w, imo you'd be better of with 4 tents spread out, so the heat ain't a problem, by having 750w of cobs in each 'without air con'.

Still costs the same to grow. Then what would yield more? Which 3000w set up would better?

One 4ft x 4ft tent with 1000w gavita,

or

Four 4ft x4ft tents with 750w of cobs in each?

 

[a mongo frog]

Still costs the same to grow. Then what would yield more? Which 3000w set up would better?

One 4ft x 4ft tent with 1000w gavita,

No one runs a 1000 watt gavita in a 4x4 friend, and hopefully not in a 4x4 tent either. And to answer the other question, id rather run a DE then 750 watts of cobs. Atleast the cobs i have anyway, way too fucking white. Yours may not be but mine sure are.

 

[Stephenj37826]

At the end of the day it comes down to umol/j.... This is backed by science..... In my experience/ opinion you have 3 factors. Light Quantity per watt, Light quality, and Light distribution. An Epap has the same output as a Gavita..... You will see better yields indoors from the Gavita. Why because more of the photons are directed down onto the canopy. The best DE fixtures are 1.85 umol/j right now. Most cob builds are in this same range. So it really comes down to light quality and Light distribution. Spectrum I give the win to white light led. Light distribution I give the win to led as they can be spaced to your desire...... As far as penetration that is a function of light quantity and also distribution. Can a led penetrate just like a DE? You bet. Just like manufacturers use different reflectors to"shape the light pattern" LEDs can use reflectors/optics to do the same. You can get a very tight lens and you'll be surprised how intense an led can be. It's all relative. It's not cut and dry in either direction.

 

[Fevs]

No one runs a 1000 watt gavita in a 4x4 friend, and hopefully not in a 4x4 tent either. And to answer the other question, id rather run a DE then 750 watts of cobs. Atleast the cobs i have anyway, way too fucking white. Yours may not be but mine sure are.

Ok, 5ft x 5ft tents then... People do use 1000w gavita in 4ft x 4ft tents. But yeah the ideal area is 5ft x 5ft.

Tbh 4ft x 4ft is probably too small for 750 cobs too.

So you'd rather run one tent with the de and air con, than 4 tents the same size with 750w of cobs? There you go, you have shown your mentality!

Personally, I'd yield so much more in the 4 tents with 750w of cobs, than the one tent with a 1000w de and air con.

 

[Greengenes707]

Here you guys go again...spouting off about possibilities and theory(I'm talking to both side of this internet vagina measuring contest).
Reality is a crazy place where shit actually happens...you guys should check it out for yourself one day and grow some weed. Then when you come into a discussion with a big mouthful of you opinions...maybe you can back them up.
DE's system vs PLC system...
https://www.instagram.com/p/BOD4MaIhEbx/?taken-by=miami.mango

 

[a mongo frog]

Ok, 5ft x 5ft tents then... People do use 1000w gavita in 4ft x 4ft tents. But yeah the ideal area is 5ft x 5ft.

Tbh 4ft x 4ft is probably too small for 750 cobs too.

So you'd rather run one tent with the de and air con, than 4 tents the same size with 750w of cobs? There you go, you have shown your mentality!

Personally, I'd yield so much more in the 4 tents with 750w of cobs, than the one tent with a 1000w de and air con.

Told you...... Now you got everyone pissed off. Thanks dude.........