45 pardons racist Joe Arpaio

[Fogdog]

that's EXACTLY what they were saying.

I had no intention of voting hillary either.

there was noone in the dem primary BUT sanders and clinton.

anything BUT elitism and status quo..the pragmatic.

people have been ready for a change since 2008 and their voting patterns prove this.

it would take bernie to win them back..but he'd do it.

Bernie Sanders is a status quo moderate politician.

 

[ttystikk]

Bernie Sanders is a status quo moderate politician.

In an era of two right wing parties, I'll take it!

You've hit on the very thing I like most about Bernie; his politics just aren't extreme. It's our country that's gone batshit crazy.

It's time to kick the corporatists out of the control room.

 

[rkymtnman]

Bernie Sanders is a status quo moderate politician.

free college for all is hardly status quo or moderate.

 

[ttystikk]

free college for all is hardly status quo or moderate.

Less than 20 years ago the entire University of California system was basically tuition free for residents.

All that's required for an institution to be a university is enough professors to teach the classes; fancy buildings, huge sports stadiums, luxurious accommodations and outlandish adminstrative overhead costs are simply not required.

Think about that for a moment.

 

[rkymtnman]

huge sports stadiums,

that's how they can afford to pay professors and keep the lights on.

i'm not against free college but it's not a birth right to get a college education, it's a privilege. and needs to be earned, not given.

 

[rkymtnman]

just a FYI: ESPN paid the SEC 2.25 billion for 15 years of covering college footbal. 187 mil per school.

 

[Fogdog]

free college for all is hardly status quo or moderate.

He's going to back off from this position too (prediction). He's showing his strategy and it all involves movement toward the center and policies compatible with moderate liberal and moderate conservative voters who are not happy with extremism in either party.

He's going squishy on health care
He's backing candidates who are anti choice
He's not even mentioning civil rights and racial issues
His "Our Revolution" reform movement is courting moderately conservative Republican candidates
Bernie's policies regarding racial issues do not exist. Social equality makes white people uncomfortable and that's the base he's courting.

He's kind of doing a Democratic version of Reagan's courting of Democratic party white moderate voters. Except Bernie is courting moderate conservatives. White people, mostly.

Campaign finance reform resonates well with these left and right moderates. I think he'll keep this as a centerpiece of his policies. But I think that's the only issue anybody can count on from Bernie right now.

Bernie never was a leftist. Leans left, sure. But best described as moderate fiscal liberal with socially conservative policies. Basically status quo. I've been watching his strongest supporters who post here move more and more to the right too. Not saying they are conservatives but they are moving rightward in rhetoric. I don't think they changed, just they no longer pose to be strongly liberal.

Please don't take this as criticism of Bernie. If he can get corporations, PACs, outsized voice of wealthy donors out of campaign finance it will be a great contribution. We can then work on other issues like soaking the rich to subsidize the education you mention. Maybe healthcare too, although this will be a sticking point with moderate conservatives.

I'll be glad to post links to information that I used to form this opinion. This is an opinion and I might change it with new information. I value your viewpoint and hope you reply back whether you disagree or agree.

 

[ttystikk]

that's how they can afford to pay professors and keep the lights on.

i'm not against free college but it's not a birth right to get a college education, it's a privilege. and needs to be earned, not given.

You've just said that it's okay to discriminate based on affordability.

I disagree with that position and find it classist, patrician and aristocratic.

 

[Fogdog]

Less than 20 years ago the entire University of California system was basically tuition free for residents.

All that's required for an institution to be a university is enough professors to teach the classes; fancy buildings, huge sports stadiums, luxurious accommodations and outlandish adminstrative overhead costs are simply not required.

Think about that for a moment.

True, that. Prop 13 was the death knell for affordable college tuition in California. It was all part of the Reagan "Revolution" and rightward march away from policies that favored meritocracy.

 

[rkymtnman]

He's going to back off from this position too (prediction). He's showing his strategy and it all involves movement toward the center and policies compatible with moderate liberal and moderate conservative voters who are not happy with extremism in either party.

He's going squishy on health care
He's backing candidates who are anti choice
He's not even mentioning civil rights and racial issues
His "Our Revolution" reform movement is courting moderately conservative Republican candidates
Bernie's policies regarding racial issues do not exist. Social equality makes white people uncomfortable and that's the base he's courting.

He's kind of doing a Democratic version of Reagan's courting of Democratic party white moderate voters. Except Bernie is courting moderate conservatives. White people, mostly.

Campaign finance reform resonates well with these left and right moderates. I think he'll keep this as a centerpiece of his policies. But I think that's the only issue anybody can count on from Bernie right now.

Bernie never was a leftist. Leans left, sure. But best described as moderate fiscal liberal with socially conservative policies. Basically status quo. I've been watching his strongest supporters who post here move more and more to the right too. Not saying they are conservatives but they are moving rightward in rhetoric. I don't think they changed, just they no longer pose to be strongly liberal.

Please don't take this as criticism of Bernie. If he can get corporations, PACs, outsized voice of wealthy donors out of campaign finance it will be a great contribution. We can then work on other issues like soaking the rich to subsidize the education you mention. Maybe healthcare too, although this will be a sticking point with moderate conservatives.

I'll be glad to post links to information that I used to form this opinion. This is an opinion and I might change it with new information. I value your viewpoint and hope you reply back whether you disagree or agree.

wow, well played, sir.
in a nutshell, he sold his soul/values/beliefs to get votes.
at first he wanted to change the game, now he just wants to play.

 

[rkymtnman]

You've just said that it's okay to discriminate based on affordability.

don't know how you got that from what i posted.

i said i agree with free college for those that deserve it. and deserving it doesn't mean barely graduating high school with a D-.
if parents want to get rid of Jimmy and send him to college on their dime and have him go 9 years and never get a degree so be it. but i don't wan tmy taxes paying for that. i want to pay for a kid who worked hard, got good grades and can't afford to go.

i think trade schools should be free too.

i think teachers from K to 12 should be paid much, much better.

 

[rkymtnman]

if a kid can get free college for being good at football, they should get free college for being good at math/science/whatever

 

[Fogdog]

wow, well played, sir.
in a nutshell, he sold his soul/values/beliefs to get votes.
at first he wanted to change the game, now he just wants to play.

It's a solid strategy. I don't see him as doing anything wrong. It's just if I were more left leaning than I am or if I were African American, Hispanic American or a woman, I'd be pretty upset about how Sanders et. al. are kicking social justice to the curb.



Actually, I'm really pissed off but checkmate. Time to concede a loss.

 

[ttystikk]

He's going to back off from this position too (prediction). He's showing his strategy and it all involves movement toward the center and policies compatible with moderate liberal and moderate conservative voters who are not happy with extremism in either party.

He's going squishy on health care
He's backing candidates who are anti choice
He's not even mentioning civil rights and racial issues
His "Our Revolution" reform movement is courting moderately conservative Republican candidates
Bernie's policies regarding racial issues do not exist. Social equality makes white people uncomfortable and that's the base he's courting.

He's kind of doing a Democratic version of Reagan's courting of Democratic party white moderate voters. Except Bernie is courting moderate conservatives. White people, mostly.

Campaign finance reform resonates well with these left and right moderates. I think he'll keep this as a centerpiece of his policies. But I think that's the only issue anybody can count on from Bernie right now.

Bernie never was a leftist. Leans left, sure. But best described as moderate fiscal liberal with socially conservative policies. Basically status quo. I've been watching his strongest supporters who post here move more and more to the right too. Not saying they are conservatives but they are moving rightward in rhetoric. I don't think they changed, just they no longer pose to be strongly liberal.

Please don't take this as criticism of Bernie. If he can get corporations, PACs, outsized voice of wealthy donors out of campaign finance it will be a great contribution. We can then work on other issues like soaking the rich to subsidize the education you mention. Maybe healthcare too, although this will be a sticking point with moderate conservatives.

I'll be glad to post links to information that I used to form this opinion. This is an opinion and I might change it with new information. I value your viewpoint and hope you reply back whether you disagree or agree.

All of which is fine with me.

It's a step in the right- err, left- direction.

 

[ttystikk]

don't know how you got that from what i posted.

i said i agree with free college for those that deserve it. and deserving it doesn't mean barely graduating high school with a D-.
if parents want to get rid of Jimmy and send him to college on their dime and have him go 9 years and never get a degree so be it. but i don't wan tmy taxes paying for that. i want to pay for a kid who worked hard, got good grades and can't afford to go.

i think trade schools should be free too.

i think teachers from K to 12 should be paid much, much better.

If people can't keep their grades up then they don't need a free chair in class, but cost should never be a barrier to entry- which is the situation now.

I'm very much on board with tuition free trade schools, and all the above institutions must be accredited and certified to ensure they're actually providing the educational services people expect and need.

If I misunderstood the gist of your remarks, I apologise.

 

[ttystikk]

if a kid can get free college for being good at football, they should get free college for being good at math/science/whatever

How about just getting decent grades, period? What's wrong with that?

 

[ttystikk]

that's how they can afford to pay professors and keep the lights on.

This is simple bullshit. The surplus isn't used to fund the rest of the University.

 

[Grandpapy]

How about just getting decent grades, period? What's wrong with that?

..and increase White collar competition?? They might figure out how to print a (text) book for $20.

 

[ttystikk]

..and increase White collar competition?? They might figure out how to print a (text) book for $20.

... or publishing them to the Internet so they don't cost anything. Crazy talk!

 

[SoOLED]

joe, that old man is so dirty, to bad he will be dead before it all comes out.