All COB Users - Lettuce Grow Challenge!!

[thetr33man]

Is this going to be a 'for profit' lettuce operations or for personal use/fun? If your blurples are in good shape, try to craigslist them and get half of what you paid for them back out... Ive tried lettuce a few times indoors and they look great till heads start to form then I run into problems. I think my issue may be a combination of too much light and not enough air movement. Probably would be easier to grow leaf lettuce than head lettuce. You can measure light intensity with an app for most smartphones, but its not a par meter and wont work for blurple, it will measure in lux, which isnt ideal but still gives you a good way to judge intensity changes as you adjust the lights, relative to plant distance or whatever. Id recommend going small till you get things figured out and then expand. Growing lettuce indoors isnt as easy as one would think.

 

[Cassakane]

Thanks for all of this info about lights. My husband wants sprouts in by the weekend, so at this point my only choice is to use some off the shelf bulbs. However, I will follow your advice and use the blurples as well. What I really want to do is have several different light arrangements going at the same time. Experiments running concurrently is much more efficient than running them consecutively. I will also look into DHGate and get some T5s on order so that I can start experimenting with them as soon as possible. We already have the NFT - although the guys just reconfigured it to grow the lettuce vertically and I am not happy with that at all. Others do it, so I hope it goes well.

 

[muleface]

Is this going to be a 'for profit' lettuce operations or for personal use/fun? If your blurples are in good shape, try to craigslist them and get half of what you paid for them back out... Ive tried lettuce a few times indoors and they look great till heads start to form then I run into problems. I think my issue may be a combination of too much light and not enough air movement. Probably would be easier to grow leaf lettuce than head lettuce. You can measure light intensity with an app for most smartphones, but its not a par meter and wont work for blurple, it will measure in lux, which isnt ideal but still gives you a good way to judge intensity changes as you adjust the lights, relative to plant distance or whatever. Id recommend going small till you get things figured out and then expand. Growing lettuce indoors isnt as easy as one would think.

totally agree, i did almost all leaf lettuce, heads get tricky. I never got them to form correctly. As far as light goes, your smart phone with a lux app is pretty damn accurate, i have a nice lux meter and my phone doing the same test is about spot on.

if you want a REAL quick and dirty conversion for lux to par, try this.

say you have 25000 lux, do:

25000 x .001253232 = 31.3308 MOL

Lettuce needs about 15 to 16 mol a day, so 31.3308 / 24 = 1.30545


16 mols (desired mols per day) / 1.30545 (mols per hour) = 12.25 (number of hours to run your light)


so to break that out some more...

25000 lux x .014505 = 362.625 uMol

362.62 uMols = .000362625 Mols (umols / 1,000,000)

000362625 Mols x 60 seconds = .0217575 (a minute)
.0217575 x 60 minutes = 1.30545 (an hour)
1.30545 x 24 hours = 31.3308 mols (a day)

this all is solid with the exception of the "lux x .014505" part. Someone on here gave me that conversion

 

[OneHitDone]

Hey brothers @muleface and @thetr33man , in all your led research did you come across any T5 replacement tubes or integrated strips that use top tier diodes such as the Samsungs that everyone is so hot for in the HLG boards?

 

[muleface]

Hey brothers @muleface and @thetr33man , in all your led research did you come across any T5 replacement tubes or integrated strips that use top tier diodes such as the Samsungs that everyone is so hot for in the HLG boards?

I did not, but with that said, i don't know that anyone would make an integrated samsung t5. The integrated stuff tends to be cheaper and throw away, it OK efficiency wise, maybe 100 lm/w. But at 27 cents a watt, its not terrible.

 

[Cassakane]

"Probably would be easier to grow leaf lettuce than head lettuce" Yeah, we are doing leaf lettuce and I've read articles about the importance of air flow.

"Growing lettuce indoors isnt as easy as one would think." Ha. I get this, also. I think we will be trying many different arrangements until we get the one that is going to work. Unfortunately, my husband's friend is the type to try to cut out every penny or process that he feels is irrelevant. We just had to throw out a tray of sprouts that he tried to start in front of a window - a small amount of research makes it obvious that there isn't enough light at a window, especially in the winter.

 

[muleface]

"Probably would be easier to grow leaf lettuce than head lettuce" Yeah, we are doing leaf lettuce and I've read articles about the importance of air flow.

"Growing lettuce indoors isnt as easy as one would think." Ha. I get this, also. I think we will be trying many different arrangements until we get the one that is going to work. Unfortunately, my husband's friend is the type to try to cut out every penny or process that he feels is irrelevant. We just had to throw out a tray of sprouts that he tried to start in front of a window - a small amount of research makes it obvious that there isn't enough light at a window, especially in the winter.

yeah, you have to have air flow!! this is REALLY important!!!

Put the seeds in rockwool and toss them all in one nft channel at first to sprout. This way you only need to run a couple of lights. If you are really going to do this commercially, then half-assing it isn't going to cut it. This is going to require a LOT of work. You need to get your PH and EC correct, use a large nutrient tank, not some 5 gallon trashcan. I would say 50 gallon minimum. Drop a PH and EC probe in the tank, do not get some $10 ph meter from amazon, get a real PH and EC wall mounted unit with remote probes. Always keep them in your tank, pull them out every two weeks and calibrate them. You have to keep things consistent.

something like this...

https://smile.amazon.com/Bluelab-Guardian-Monitor-Plant-Germination/dp/B0081K32B0/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1513622265&sr=8-8&keywords=bluelab+ph


Also, Read this!!!

http://www.cornellcea.com/attachments/Cornell CEA Lettuce Handbook .pdf

use this as your guild to growing.

No one will buy tip burned lettuce from you, if you have 100 heads and 80% have tip burn you only can sell 20 heads. If you use too much light the tips will burn, if your PH or EC is off, the tips will burn, if your lettuce doesn't get constant air flow, tips will burn.

Air flow will keep tips from burning and also keep you plants from rotting.

Balanced PH and EC will keep tips from burning and lettuce from being bitter

Proper light will keep tips from burning and lettuce from being bitter

Lettuce nutrients:

https://hydro-gardens.com/product/lettuce-formula-25lbs-bag-8-15-36/

you will also need cal/mag as well, read what they suggest and purchase accordingly.

If your husbands buddy is trying to cut corners and save a buck everywhere then maybe this isn't the right business for him to be in, anyone can grow lettuce, but growing good lettuce people are willing to spend more then a $1 a pound on is going to require a lot of care and babying.

 

[thetr33man]

I havent used this, but Jacks is a fairly respected brand in fertilizers so I would expect good things, without breaking the bank.
http://www.jrpeters.com/products_/16491/17592-jack-s-professional/16391-16-4-17-oasis-hydroponic.html

I dont know of any T8 replacements using quality chips, sorry about that. Id look into strips I guess, eb's or samsung.

 

[thetr33man]

Been having a lot of root rot problems with my DWC tomatoes, removed 3 plants from DWC and planted in soil. Left one that has been doing the best in DWC and starting to add 5ml to reservoir of 6% bleach 2 times a week. Not sure if thats enough to kill the rot but hoping it helps. My temps got high when I had my pump in the tent, over 80f for a while in the res but now I moved it outside and temps are hanging around 68f. Kinda new to DWC so still trying to figure it out....

 

[OneHitDone]

Been having a lot of root rot problems with my DWC tomatoes, removed 3 plants from DWC and planted in soil. Left one that has been doing the best in DWC and starting to add 5ml to reservoir of 6% bleach 2 times a week. Not sure if thats enough to kill the rot but hoping it helps. My temps got high when I had my pump in the tent, over 80f for a while in the res but now I moved it outside and temps are hanging around 68f. Kinda new to DWC so still trying to figure it out....

A large reservoir located outside the growing area helps a lot.
Also, look into this product:
http://www.growthproducts.com/pdfs/Hydroponics_Companion_Fungicide_Specimen_Label.pdf
But don't run chlorinated water or hydrogen peroxide with that product or it will kill the bacteria

 

[muleface]

Been having a lot of root rot problems with my DWC tomatoes, removed 3 plants from DWC and planted in soil. Left one that has been doing the best in DWC and starting to add 5ml to reservoir of 6% bleach 2 times a week. Not sure if thats enough to kill the rot but hoping it helps. My temps got high when I had my pump in the tent, over 80f for a while in the res but now I moved it outside and temps are hanging around 68f. Kinda new to DWC so still trying to figure it out....

i don't think you are going to save those. My suggestion would be rip it all out and start over. I know that suggestion sucks, but you can fight a losing battle for the next month and even if the tomatoes recover, they will not really produce very will. And when i say start over, i mean all of it. Toss your growth medium, the pots, bleach wash EVERYTHING! Fill your res with bleach water and run you pump for an hour. If you try to reuse anything that can't be bleached, you will have the same problem again.

I might also suggest not doing DWC for these plants. you only have 4 of them, use a dripper to water them and drain it to waste. Is it more wasteful? yeah, a little, but its SO much better for you plants. its also a TON less work. Get a very large res and keep it outside the tent. Then go get yourself a couple of 1 gallon water jugs from the grocery store, they are like a buck each, freeze them and then drop 1 of them in your res until it completely thaws. Then clean it off and swap it out with the other jug in the freezer. do this once a day. your plants will thank you.

if you had a bunch of plants, then sure, fight the battle, but with 4 its not worth the time or energy (your work and running the lights) to try and save these guys. Also even if you get 3 of the 4 totally fixed, the 4th plant will bring the rot back to everyone.

also, i might suggest really looking into the type of tomatoes you are using, some of them are better for indoor growing then others. Some are more susceptible to illness. Like if you smoke (cigarettes/cigars) you can bring tobacco mosaic virus into your garden. this will require a bunch of effort to fix. Blight is also a problem, find plants that are resistant to these. Also, look into "Single truss tomatoes" This is about pruning your plants, they will be happier and produce more fruit.

I have a very large tomato farm going, 36 plants. And it has not been without its issues. I am currently running all heirloom tomatoes, but i don't think I will do that again, at least for now. They are a ton more work and don't produce as much.

 

[thetr33man]

i don't think you are going to save those. My suggestion would be rip it all out and start over. I know that suggestion sucks, but you can fight a losing battle for the next month and even if the tomatoes recover, they will not really produce very will. And when i say start over, i mean all of it. Toss your growth medium, the pots, bleach wash EVERYTHING! Fill your res with bleach water and run you pump for an hour. If you try to reuse anything that can't be bleached, you will have the same problem again.

I have a very large tomato farm going, 36 plants. And it has not been without its issues. I am currently running all heirloom tomatoes, but i don't think I will do that again, at least for now. They are a ton more work and don't produce as much.

Quite the setup there! I do have another tomato in fabric pot with coir thats doing much better, Its kind of going crazy right now. Im using floranova bloom at 1 tsp / gallon of tap water and adding 1 gram of epsom also. I water to slight drainoff whenever it seems to need it, by hand. This is some type of ind cherry tomato...


U think drain 2 waste in coco? Use the same 5gal buckets with holes drilled in the bottom? I was thinking about trying to do a Hempy style system if I cant get this back on track, I guess thats kinda similar. Can you recommend a good affordable timer that can control down to the second for watering?

 

[muleface]

Quite the setup there! I do have another tomato in fabric pot with coir thats doing much better, Its kind of going crazy right now. Im using floranova bloom at 1 tsp / gallon of tap water and adding 1 gram of epsom also. I water to slight drainoff whenever it seems to need it, by hand. This is some type of ind cherry tomato...
View attachment 4063617

U think drain 2 waste in coco? Use the same 5gal buckets with holes drilled in the bottom? I was thinking about trying to do a Hempy style system if I cant get this back on track, I guess thats kinda similar. Can you recommend a good affordable timer that can control down to the second for watering?

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0752PHMTL/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Definitely drain to waste. recycling water has a number of problems, first if one plant gets sick, they all do, second, you have to chase EC and PH around all the time. The real day to day issue is that plants will grab whatever specific nutrient they need, so the EC will drop, when you add more nutrients to the res to compensate you are increasing everything, so the solution gets out of wack. Your plants will suffer from this.

Things to do:
1. prune your plants (remove the suckers)
2. get an electric tooth brush, you don't need a fancy one, the cheapest you can find. Use this to pollinate the flowers. Just touch the stem near the flower with it, the vibration will release the pollen.
3. drain to waste
4. unless you can get the water to go everywhere in the pot, just hand water. If only part of the medium gets wet, the roots will chase it around and not grow to their full potential. I'll put a watering guild up today at some point.
5. Check out https://hydro-gardens.com/product/tomato-formula-5lbs-box-4-18-38x5/ you will also need cal/mag. These come in different size bags. Someone already did the work for us here, and its WAY cheaper then liquid stuff.
6. Don't recycle water
7. Get a probe style PH/EC meter to put it the RES, so it can take real time mesurements
8. Don't recycle water
9. Keep the res water cool, and use a BIG tank, don't go with a 5 gallon bucket, its not big enough
10. Don't recycle water

 

[OneHitDone]

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0752PHMTL/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Definitely drain to waste. recycling water has a number of problems, first if one plant gets sick, they all do, second, you have to chase EC and PH around all the time. The real day to day issue is that plants will grab whatever specific nutrient they need, so the EC will drop, when you add more nutrients to the res to compensate you are increasing everything, so the solution gets out of wack. Your plants will suffer from this.

Things to do:
1. prune your plants (remove the suckers)
2. get an electric tooth brush, you don't need a fancy one, the cheapest you can find. Use this to pollinate the flowers. Just touch the stem near the flower with it, the vibration will release the pollen.
3. drain to waste
4. unless you can get the water to go everywhere in the pot, just hand water. If only part of the medium gets wet, the roots will chase it around and not grow to their full potential. I'll put a watering guild up today at some point.
5. Check out https://hydro-gardens.com/product/tomato-formula-5lbs-box-4-18-38x5/ you will also need cal/mag. These come in different size bags. Someone already did the work for us here, and its WAY cheaper then liquid stuff.
6. Don't recycle water
7. Get a probe style PH/EC meter to put it the RES, so it can take real time mesurements
8. Don't recycle water
9. Keep the res water cool, and use a BIG tank, don't go with a 5 gallon bucket, its not big enough
10. Don't recycle water

All those things have a merit of truth to them, but only to a point.....
I can rattle negatives of any grow system all day long if you want to take the thought process to the absolute "what if" worst cast scenario.
That said, some of the healthiest plants I have ever grown have been in recirculating hydroponics.
I would not discourage @thetr33man from trying water culture again at all. Just make some tweaks and try again. Link your dwc buckets to a res outside the tent to increase water capacity to help stabilize temps.
If those are indeterminate tomato's you could also take cuttings from the healthiest one.
There is a product called Plant Dr that will bring that existing tomato back to 100% health - blew my mind on some outdoor tomato's I tried it on that were all blighted out. Came back like brand new

Plus only in water culture can you wow other growers with root porn

 

[thetr33man]

Ive got a bunch of jacks hydro and calnit Ill start using once the floranova is gone prolly....

 

[OneHitDone]

Ive got a bunch of jacks hydro and calnit Ill start using once the floranova is gone prolly....

Flora Nova is great on it's own

 

[Dave455]

Quite the setup there! I do have another tomato in fabric pot with coir thats doing much better, Its kind of going crazy right now. Im using floranova bloom at 1 tsp / gallon of tap water and adding 1 gram of epsom also. I water to slight drainoff whenever it seems to need it, by hand. This is some type of ind cherry tomato...
View attachment 4063617

U think drain 2 waste in coco? Use the same 5gal buckets with holes drilled in the bottom? I was thinking about trying to do a Hempy style system if I cant get this back on track, I guess thats kinda similar. Can you recommend a good affordable timer that can control down to the second for watering?

What lights are you using ?

 

[muleface]

All those things have a merit of truth to them, but only to a point.....
I can rattle negatives of any grow system all day long if you want to take the thought process to the absolute "what if" worst cast scenario.
That said, some of the healthiest plants I have ever grown have been in recirculating hydroponics.
I would not discourage @thetr33man from trying water culture again at all. Just make some tweaks and try again. Link your dwc buckets to a res outside the tent to increase water capacity to help stabilize temps.
If those are indeterminate tomato's you could also take cuttings from the healthiest one.
There is a product called Plant Dr that will bring that existing tomato back to 100% health - blew my mind on some outdoor tomato's I tried it on that were all blighted out. Came back like brand new

Plus only in water culture can you wow other growers with root porn

View attachment 4063632

love me some root porn. Plant DR you say? I will have to look into that, i have some blight or something going on right now, its not bueno.

can plant dr get mixed into my nutrient tank? or can it only be sprayed on the plants themselves?

 

[OneHitDone]

love me some root porn. Plant DR you say? I will have to look into that, i have some blight or something going on right now, its not bueno.

can plant dr get mixed into my nutrient tank? or can it only be sprayed on the plants themselves?

Both
It is the one product that has done what it states it will do to the point of making your jaw drop
Just follow the instructions here:
http://www.yourplantdoctor.com/organocide-plant-doctor-systemic-fungicide-faqs/

I foliar as directed or into the res on hydro at 2.5ml per gallon. One or two applications at res change and a foliar should have you back in business

 

[thetr33man]

What lights are you using ?

Im using cob style LED, homemade. Timer was for nutrient if I did a drain to waste, watering from an outside reservoir, not for the lights.