5 myths about health care around the world

[doobnVA]

Interesting read, especially for those who still insist the US has the "best health care" in the world (or even close to it). Common fallacy among the people of the US is that our current system "works", and "socialized" medicine is bad (despite not actually knowing what a socialized system of health care really is).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR2009082101778.html

 

[fitch303]

1, I'm entirely happy with my health care and 2, I never want to pay for anyone other than myself, if you can't afford it to bad and don't ask me to pay for it. I think this is how most people feel and not the typical "I'm misinformed and that's why I don't want reform".

 

[NoDrama]

Its too expensive is the only problem with our health care. I also refuse to pay for someone elses care, Whats mine is mine and I earned it. If i give it to you , you will never respect it and will just abuse it.

I love how they use Japan as a shining example of health care, but they fail to mention that because of their diet the Japanese already have the lowest incidences of most major diseases. Ever see hundreds of waddling japanese men on the street? Nope. Ever see hundreds of bloated Americans waddling around, sure do, Go to a major beach and I guarantee you will see thousands of fatties. The statistics show that obesity and diet are the #2 killer of Americans, right after Tobacco.

 

[doobnVA]

Don't you guys see, that in a system where so many people are uninsured, that you already ARE paying for other people's care? Not to mention that your tax dollars go to programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and state children's insurance programs.

Did either of you even read the article? Too expensive is NOT the problem at all, it's just a symptom of the underlying issues. The fact is, our system is broken and unsustainable.

You may be content with your substandard care, and high premiums, but you're ignoring the statistics that show the US as the only nation where people are going bankrupt because of high medical costs.

 

[doobnVA]

1, I'm entirely happy with my health care and 2, I never want to pay for anyone other than myself, if you can't afford it to bad and don't ask me to pay for it. I think this is how most people feel and not the typical "I'm misinformed and that's why I don't want reform".

Your statements ARE the typical "I'm misinformed and that's why I don't want reform".

So, you're entirely happy paying so much more for standard medical procedures than people in other countries pay? Is OUR MRI somehow better than Japan's? No. So why is it so much more expensive?

Will you still be "entirely happy" with your health care if you're diagnosed with a terminal illness and your insurance carrier decides to drop you instead of approving your claim?

The US health insurance industry spends 20 cents out of every dollar on administrative costs, compared to 4 cents or maybe 6 cents in other nations.

That means 20% of your hard-earned dollar isn't going to actual medical costs at all. That's comparable to taking 20% of your paycheck and giving it to the payroll department to pay their salary. Would you be entirely happy with that?

 

[newb19547]

Interesting read, especially for those who still insist the US has the "best health care" in the world (or even close to it). Common fallacy among the people of the US is that our current system "works", and "socialized" medicine is bad (despite not actually knowing what a socialized system of health care really is).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR2009082101778.html

I would love to meet the person who thinks US has the best healthcare. Everybody I know f*king hates the shit........because they dont have any. Me included

 

[hanimmal]

The majority of people that are 'happy with their healthcare' are people that have not needed it yet.

As soon as people are in need of something when they have decided that they don't up until that point, they will change their minds.

I tried for months to help people see that they are still paying for everyone elses healthcare one way or another. But word of advice, the people that chose not to see that this is a good thing for the country in almost every aspect, will never see it.

 

[flatrider]

its free in canada I love canada!

 

[mexiblunt]

C'mon now flatrider us canadians pay taxes too.

 

[MuyLocoNC]

While I agree that health care is too expensive, I have to disagree with the solution being offered up. There are many ways that costs can be lowered for the average citizen. If the growing cost is the problem we are trying to solve, then there are ways of doing so that don't involve a bloated 1000+ page bill that creates a another gigantic government bureaucracy and leaves the actual details to be made at a later date by unelected individuals. C'mon fellas you can't really be in favor of what they have proposed so far, are you telling me that in a 1000+ pages they can't lay out the plan without deferring to future panels?

I don't want to bankrupt my family if I get real sick. I don't. But I also do not believe that a single payer system or socialized medicine as many would call it is the solution we should be looking at. That's the rub, and most Americans agree. Work towards fixing the problems WITHOUT a public option...that's all. Our politicians haven't even put forth a credible concerted effort to tackle the issues individually in the last 20 years and THAT IS THE PROBLEM. Don't come to me and say it's time to completely change the system until you've actually tried for a decade to solve the REAL problems. And I don't mean lip service. Real solutions, many of the changes being offered by conservatives and economists. Tort reform, real competition across state lines, portability, tax breaks etc etc, they obviously haven't been tried and since both sides agree they would be helpful, enact those policies and reign in the costs as well as getting a handle on these freaking trial lawyers. If it doesn't have a positive effect after reasonable time has passed, ok then I'll listen and support giving the public option a go. But it has to be a sensible program that we can get out of, because in the states that have some form of it, it's a financial disaster so far.

And don't bother trying the argument that the inaction of the government is proof the system needs to be changed, if your argument is that the government can't get it's shit together enough to make specific regulations that can tackle specific issues, then don't tell me I should allow that same incompetent government to run the whole thing. That argument is so illogical it makes my head spin.

 

[NoDrama]

Know why the medical industry has to use 20% of its resources for administrative costs? Ever see how much bureaucratic red tape they have to fill out, how much the government already regulates them?

I am not paying for other peoples health care, I take care of myself, don't use tobacco,rarely ever drink alcohol and maintain a correct weight. Exercise daily and eat plenty of veggies. I have visited the doctor once in the last 15 years. I have my own private insurance, and I do agree that it is too expensive, but there are other ways to bring down costs. Tort reform, easing up on the government regulation, and citizens who take responsibility for their own lives would bring down costs dramatically. Also I do not subscribe to the theory that we have a large uninsured population, many are illegal aliens, many do not want insurance nor need it and then there are those poor who cannot afford it, but they only make up less than 6% of the population. 94% are insured with what we have now, A HUGE MAJORITY!!

 

[doobnVA]

Know why the medical industry has to use 20% of its resources for administrative costs? Ever see how much bureaucratic red tape they have to fill out, how much the government already regulates them?

I am not paying for other peoples health care, I take care of myself, don't use tobacco,rarely ever drink alcohol and maintain a correct weight. Exercise daily and eat plenty of veggies. I have visited the doctor once in the last 15 years. I have my own private insurance, and I do agree that it is too expensive, but there are other ways to bring down costs. Tort reform, easing up on the government regulation, and citizens who take responsibility for their own lives would bring down costs dramatically. Also I do not subscribe to the theory that we have a large uninsured population, many are illegal aliens, many do not want insurance nor need it and then there are those poor who cannot afford it, but they only make up less than 6% of the population. 94% are insured with what we have now, A HUGE MAJORITY!!

94%?? Where'd you get that number? True, the majority of people are insured, but at what price? If 94% of our soldiers fighting in the war were armed, and the other 6% weren't... would that be a large enough majority for you? Or would you rather ALL of them be armed?


According to the U.S. Census Bureau, nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007.

So, please, show me where you're getting this figure of 94%.

By the way, cancer doesn't care if you eat your veggies and exercise.

You've been to the doctor ONCE in 15 years, and you call that "taking care of yourself"? The Japanese are, overall, much healthier than we are and they visit the doctor 15 time PER YEAR!

So.. where do you think those premiums you're paying are actually going? Since it obviously isn't being spent on YOUR care.

Yeah, that's right. OTHER PEOPLE'S care. If you're under the impression that they're stowing your payments away just in case you ever become ill, you're sorely mistaken.

You're paying for other people's health care while vehemently refusing to pay for other people's health care.

Make any sense?

 

[doobnVA]

Know why the medical industry has to use 20% of its resources for administrative costs? Ever see how much bureaucratic red tape they have to fill out, how much the government already regulates them?

/QUOTE]


Ahem.. well, tell me then why in nations with "socialized" health care systems they SPEND LESS on administrative costs than we do here.

That's MORE government regulation than what we have, by the way.

 

[MuyLocoNC]

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007.

So, please, show me where you're getting this figure of 94%.

Actually the numbers I've seen puts the number at 3% or 8 million. The number from the census includes illegal aliens ( I'm sorry it does), young adults who choose not to purchase policies, people temporarily between jobs (things have obviously changed on that front), people with incomes high enough that they choose not to purchase policies and one of the largest groups included in the census, individuals who would qualify for medicare/medicaid but haven't enrolled (over 14 million or one third of the uninsured).

I do believe the numbers have gone up to about 7% even with the "questionable" folks (see above) taken out. However, considering the ACTUAL unemployment or underemployment rate is hovering between 18-22% that isn't exactly shocking, it's understandable with our current system of employer based health care.

I'm all for taking the employer out of the equation...they can contribute, but why limit my choices to what they offer? Get the costs down, bring about tort reform, allow competition, make insurance portable and we can save enough to cover the uninsurable and chronically poor. If it doesn't work, then we can talk.

From what I read today, that's exactly what the administration has decided to do anyways.

 

[doobnVA]

Actually the numbers I've seen puts the number at 3% or 8 million. The number from the census includes illegal aliens ( I'm sorry it does), young adults who choose not to purchase policies, people temporarily between jobs (things have obviously changed on that front), people with incomes high enough that they choose not to purchase policies and one of the largest groups included in the census, individuals who would qualify for medicare/medicaid but haven't enrolled (over 14 million or one third of the uninsured).

I do believe the numbers have gone up to about 7% even with the "questionable" folks (see above) taken out. However, considering the ACTUAL unemployment or underemployment rate is hovering between 18-22% that isn't exactly shocking, it's understandable with our current system of employer based health care.

I'm all for taking the employer out of the equation...they can contribute, but why limit my choices to what they offer? Get the costs down, bring about tort reform, allow competition, make insurance portable and we can save enough to cover the uninsurable and chronically poor. If it doesn't work, then we can talk.

From what I read today, that's exactly what the administration has decided to do anyways.

The census number, while including illegal aliens, does not include anyone over the age of 65 (the age you must be to qualify for Medicare). Being a US citizen has nothing to do with it. Those illegal aliens don't travel back to their native country to seek medical care, do they? No, they visit the same doctors and hospitals that we do. If they purchase insurance, it's going to be from an American company.

People who "chose" not to purchase insurance mainly do so because they can't justify the expense. I'd LOVE to have insurance, but I can't afford to pay hundreds of dollars per month for something I KNOW I'm not getting my money's worth out of.

Wonder why people "choose" not to purchase insurance? Take a hard look at the underlying reasons why everyone is screaming for reform, and you'll see why.

Like I said before, the percentage of uninsured isn't the point (although I find it amusing that 10% is "too" high when talking about something like homelessness or unemployment, but insignificant somehow when it comes to the uninsured). It's the fact that people who WANT and NEED insurance can't get it - either because they can't afford it, or the insurance companies refuse to cover them.

 

[jrh72582]

Don't you guys see, that in a system where so many people are uninsured, that you already ARE paying for other people's care? Not to mention that your tax dollars go to programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and state children's insurance programs.

Did either of you even read the article? Too expensive is NOT the problem at all, it's just a symptom of the underlying issues. The fact is, our system is broken and unsustainable.

You may be content with your substandard care, and high premiums, but you're ignoring the statistics that show the US as the only nation where people are going bankrupt because of high medical costs.

You are exactly right. If we could provide universal healthcare and get people to show restraint and control in their diets and habits, then we would be paying MUCH less. The unhealthier we are, the more we pay. My premiums go up and up as incidences of cancer, diabetes, and obesity rise. We are paying out the ass. We pay more for health care in the US than most other countries with socialized healthcare. The simple fact of the matter is that we ALL already pay for other people's healthcare, so why not get it right and make it cheaper? We should strive for the system Japan has. Promote health and provide coverage for everyone.

I interact with students quite a bit and am amazed by how unhealthy their lifestyles are. Our main food court has a McDonald's, a fast food Chinese joint, a taco bell, and a subway (which is the least trafficked). These students have no clue how to eat, don't exercise, allow stress to consume their lives, and have no idea how to manage money. We graduate them into the real world and these habits continue. They eventually become riddled with disease and become a drag to ALL of us. Case in point, we would all pay much less under a universal system with an emphasis on lifestyle changes. I'm all for freedom of choice, but when your only choices in diet are greasy unhealthy shit and minor inconvenience, Americans choose the former. They won't stop - so let's regulate it. Keep unhealthy shit out of schools, including soft drinks, make PE mandatory through college, and brainwash these fuckers to make healthy decisions. I don't think there's any other way. We are one of the richest nations in the world (or at least we used to be), but we are the stupidest, fattest slobs on the planet. Sometimes I wonder how people can be so fucking dumb. Put down the damn McDonald's and exercise. It's SO shameful. I don't know how most people can live with themselves.

Rant over. It's been a LONG day - I apologize for the tangent.

 

[hanimmal]

This is why I like my plan the best (too bad it doesn't matter)

The government then sets the guidelines that insurance companies have to cover everything that the doctors recommend. But they are allowed to question it and can 'veto' practices that don't have proof to work (similar to now). But they have to do it in a very expedited manner. Then toss out malpractice suits. If someone gets hurt by the hospital or becomes unable to take care of themselves through bad practices the insurance company and hospital have to pay for the patients for the rest of the time it takes for them to become healthy.

Have everyone pay 3% tax (about average for most people's insurance).

Now the government takes that money and buys the insurance in sections based off the insurance companies criteria that they use now. So this way each state would have about 50 or so plans they would buy for the population. All the insurance companies coverage would have to be the same. The costs could differ, but the government would be going for the lowest price with the best service, hospitals could have a say too.

This would streamline it so that every business can stop dealing with purchasing insurance and it goes through one office for each state, but all the actual payouts and cost savings happens between the hospital and the insurance companies. The only thing the government would be doing is taking the bids and selecting the most cost efficent company for each plan.

The hospital would use the state i.d. (this way illegal immigrants would not qualify) and based off your zip and date of birth and sex they would know which insurance company to bill.



But anyway that is my plan I can go on for hours more, but that is the gist.

The thing is we need to have major reform in the insurance companies. And we need to have a way to cover the millions of american citizens that don't have it.

And that is what this bill is trying to do, so in the absence of something that would completely alter the way we do things so we can do it right, this will do.

And having panels is always better than relying on a piece of paper that will stagnate.

The panels will let them be able to adjust things that don't work. Not that it will be done, but that is why they are better to have.

 

[ViRedd]

I'm tired of paying for food. Its too expensive. The "rich" eat better than I do and that really pisses me off. I want a government free food program. Don't say it can't work, because it already does. The example is the millions of pounds of free food doled out in our government monopolized schools system.

Free steaks and chops for everyone, that's my motto! Oh yeah ... and throw in a healthy ration of Ben & Jerry's Cherry Garcia ice cream too.

 

[jrh72582]

I'm tired of paying for food. Its too expensive. The "rich" eat better than I do and that really pisses me off. I want a government free food program. Don't say it can't work, because it already does. The example is the millions of pounds of free food doled out in our government monopolized schools system.

Free steaks and chops for everyone, that's my motto! Oh yeah ... and throw in a healthy ration of Ben & Jerry's Cherry Garcia ice cream too.

No. I don't like that flavor. I demand a universally liked flavor.

 

[The Warlord]

94%?? Where'd you get that number? True, the majority of people are insured, but at what price? If 94% of our soldiers fighting in the war were armed, and the other 6% weren't... would that be a large enough majority for you? Or would you rather ALL of them be armed?


According to the U.S. Census Bureau, nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007.

So, please, show me where you're getting this figure of 94%.

By the way, cancer doesn't care if you eat your veggies and exercise.

You've been to the doctor ONCE in 15 years, and you call that "taking care of yourself"? The Japanese are, overall, much healthier than we are and they visit the doctor 15 time PER YEAR!

So.. where do you think those premiums you're paying are actually going? Since it obviously isn't being spent on YOUR care.

Yeah, that's right. OTHER PEOPLE'S care. If you're under the impression that they're stowing your payments away just in case you ever become ill, you're sorely mistaken.

You're paying for other people's health care while vehemently refusing to pay for other people's health care.

Make any sense?

totaly off topic but cancer does indeed care if you eat your veggies. Diets high in fruits and vegetables are proven over and over to reduce cancer rates. Also some types of cancer have been cured by a completely vegan diet (the cancer diet).
so that statement in the middle of your post is false.