Lollipopping

[DaveCoulier]

Thank you for willing to do a side by side test. Ive asked Dillweed to do the same. Hopefully he'll do it as well.

 

[Bob Smith]

A coupla other things:

I'll post the link to the journal in this thread when I start it up for anyone to view and make sure I'm not "doctoring" the results.

I'll compare the weights of the main colas on each plant vs. each other, and then a comparison of gross weights (including the popcorn from the "untouched" 32 plants).

There's very little doubt in my mind how the results are going to turn out - the colas on the "pruned" plants will be larger and manicuring will take 25% as long as the "au natural", and the "au natural" will have slightly more gross weight and much more popcorn nugs.

That being said, I'll perform the test as scientifically as I can, and you're all welcome to chime in if you think that I'm giving one group preference over another so as to manipulate my results.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Whats to say that when you remove budsites, that the plant doesn't start reducing the amount of carbs/glucose it produces since it now no longer has to supply them?

Yep, good point. That's the difference between theory and actual application. I've been gardening too long to know that book stuff is not always correct. Mel Franks usually gets it right, one of the few.

I mentioned a CO2 flag. No one got it. I mentioned the R and FR light, no one got it.

There's more to this debate than meets the eye. I will not be a slave to my plants nor to the hydro vendors, nor to forum paradigms. I employ the KISS principle, I grow really cheap, and it works very well. None of this SCROG, DWC, aeroponics, and AN crap for me. Like flushing, SOG was started by the Dutch, and being they're allowed to grow, it must be cool. Have you ever really taken a look at most Dutch gardens via High Times and such? Most are awful. They over fertilize and then think (wrongly so) that they can atone for their excesses by opening some screwy botanical tap.

Bob, you have an agenda, as stated with your sideways anger statement directed at me on the first post you made a couple of pages back, which set the tone of your us-against-him drill:

Decided to check on this thread to see if any progress had been made on the debate, and shockingly enough, it seems there hasn't.

I'm sorry you can't get your 100% group consensus and that there are some that will disagree with you. That's life.

About your journal, hell will have to freeze over before I'll take such a "study" as bonafide. Mama didn't raise no fool. I'm a college grad with post graduate work and we do field trials in triplicate sponsored by non-partisan groups who are not affiliated with any one. If you think I'll place any credibility on a virtual "study" you're funny. That's about as silly as some of these chest beating virtual grow challenges.

UB

 

[Bob Smith]

Bob, you have an agenda, as stated with your sideways anger statement directed at me on the first post you made a couple of pages back, which set the tone of your us-against-him drill:

I'm sorry you can't get your 100% group consensus and that there are some that will disagree with you. That's life.

About your journal, hell will have to freeze over before I'll take such a "study" as bonafide. Mama didn't raise no fool. I'm a college grad with post graduate work and we do field trials in triplicate sponsored by non-partisan groups who are not affiliated with any one. If you think I'll place any credibility on a virtual "study" you're funny. That's about as silly as some of these chest beating virtual grow challenges.

UB

My agenda is finding the truth out so that I can maximize my plant's potential.

No more, no less; any assertion to the contrary is simply to divert people's attention from the real issue at hand.

There is no "us against him" drill - in fact, the reason I initially unsubbed from this thread is because it had become a flame war against you, and even though I disagreed with you (and still do), I afforded you enough respect to not want to be a part of that.

Unfortunately you have not afforded me that same respect in our current discussion, but such is life.

The thing that really makes me wonder about, however, is why you're now changing your tune regarding a side-by-side comparison - if memory serves, hasn't that been your standard answer to people from post #1.

"Run a test and post your results", or some catchphrase to that effect?

Now I understand that I'm not going to be in a laboratory, but as hobby growers go, I'd say my setup compares favorably to the overwhelming majority of them.

In addition to this, I've stated that I'll post regular updates, so that you (and whoever else may be interested) can stop on by whenever you'd like and make sure I'm treating the two groups equally.

So to recap:

1) I asked questions (which to any unbiased observer proved my point very well), got no answers.
2) I offered to run a "published" experiment, and that was dismissed.

It seems like one of us doesn't want to find out the truth, or already knows it and won't admit it.

I know you're too proud and smug to admit it, but even you must feel somewhat ashamed reading this.

BTW, you really, really, really don't wanna start comparing academic records with me.

You're just gonna have to take my word on that one - that'll get real ugly, real quick

 

[Uncle Ben]

There is no "truth", only styles. Thought I had made that clear. If you mean the grams/watt stuff, that too is cannabis forum bullshit. There are no standards of measurement for anything, reason I will not take your study seriously. I've always experimented and think others should too, so, if it floats your boat and you're so anal that you think you can get more than anyone else per s.f., as if it matters, go for it. Just don't change your hood or your genetics as your results will surely run askew.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Just for shits and grins, imma gonna hav a go at Schmidt's truisms...

My agenda is finding the truth out so that I can maximize my plant's potential.

I don't think so. If you need more pot, add more footprint, more snake oils.

No more, no less; any assertion to the contrary is simply to divert people's attention from the real issue at hand.

The real issue is botany, spin it anyway you wish.

There is no "us against him" drill - in fact, the reason I initially unsubbed from this thread is because it had become a flame war against you, and even though I disagreed with you (and still do), I afforded you enough respect to not want to be a part of that.

There were two infantile trolls you did not address, so don't play Jesus with me.

Now I understand that I'm not going to be in a laboratory, but as hobby growers go, I'd say my setup compares favorably to the overwhelming majority of them.

Then take your design to someone in Amsterdam who cares.

In addition to this, I've stated that I'll post regular updates, so that you (and whoever else may be interested) can stop on by whenever you'd like and make sure I'm treating the two groups equally.

So to recap:

1) I asked questions (which to any unbiased observer proved my point very well), got no answers.

Sorry, but they did not dignify a response. Be glad I'm giving you some attention right now, as my PM's are getting mighty long with the "help me please" requests.

2) I offered to run a "published" experiment, and that was dismissed.

For a very good reason. Go figure.

It seems like one of us doesn't want to find out the truth, or already knows it and won't admit it.

You figure it out. My mind is made up.

I know you're too proud and smug to admit it, but even you must feel somewhat ashamed reading this.

I don't feel ashamed about anything. I think you're an arrogant nut, it you really want to know the "truth".

BTW, you really, really, really don't wanna start comparing academic records with me.

So how long is it? Did you shave off da lower hairs so it looks bigger?

You're just gonna have to take my word on that one - that'll get real ugly, real quick

I'm skeered........

 

[Bob Smith]

I'm not gonna get into a flame war with you (and am beyond shocked that you would resort to such "troll-ish" things) as it makes me no better then the trolls that were attacking you before.

So feel free to ignore me and this debate in its entirety, and get back to your "help me please" PMs.

For the third time, have a good day and an even better 2010.

Now if there's anyone else who agrees with Uncle Ben (vis a vis pruning vs. not-pruning) and would like to have an actual discussion/debate regarding the merits/efficiency of each, I'd love to discuss with them.

 

[mared juwan]

Bob Smith is my hero. Don't worry, my man. People who actually read the thread objectively will see which people are making valid arguments and which resort to their favorite buzzwords and name-calling to defend their stance. C'mon shit-fer-brains, it's botanical science... D'uh. I also found it interesting that Uncle Ben admitted very clearly that he has NEVER tried this method. Why the fuck would anyone listen to him about it then? It's like me saying I've never listened to a CD but I know 8-track is better because that's all I've ever used and it works well enough for me.

 

[clasonde]

there seems to be a lot of avoidance of truths. someone offered to do an experiment showing the truth behind this method(s), and was immediately deflected into another direction. why don't you both do a journal showing your methods under relatively the same growing conditions and see who has the biggest nuts. you can always have your "tips and tricks" but no one is better than mother nature. i haven't been participating in this thread necessarily, but i have been collectively watching its.

i am sorry UB, i respect you and i find all your tips and advice to be very beneficial, but i do lean towards Bob on this one.

p.s. its a plant, who gives a fuck if anyone has the "best" methods/conditions/experience, enjoy your hard work and kick back!

 

[stinkbudd1]

there seems to be a lot of avoidance of truths. someone offered to do an experiment showing the truth behind this method(s), and was immediately deflected into another direction. why don't you both do a journal showing your methods under relatively the same growing conditions and see who has the biggest nuts. you can always have your "tips and tricks" but no one is better than mother nature. i haven't been participating in this thread necessarily, but i have been collectively watching its.

i am sorry UB, i respect you and i find all your tips and advice to be very beneficial, but i do lean towards Bob on this one.

p.s. its a plant, who gives a fuck if anyone has the "best" methods/conditions/experience, enjoy your hard work and kick back!

f**k yeah well said either compare each side by side or not! some of this shit sounds like childs play tag your it no you stink back to you .geez get on with it as for the contest for clarity sounds like ones scared and the other is glad he is...shit do it or not..

 

[Hiesman]

Idk if i have posted on this thread or not.. lol i dont remember... but i have been reading it n checkn on it for the past week...

im down south... and down south there are farms everywhere. Them boys know what they're doing. Now i remember one man tellin me about his tobbaco plants. He told me, that when the tobbacco plant is coming to the harvesting point it will have grown a flower at the top of the plant. What they do is cut that top flower off before it gets too big. Why u do that? i asked. Because the leaves will begin to become heavier. Which is what they want. Bigger yields. so with that being said... uncle bens point is proven in a sense and so is the lollipoppers, at some point they both are going to do some cutting that increases yields... i see no scientific difference in what you two do in order to create more bud. Lollipoppers cut off the bottom, why tho? because they want a jillion small plants in there for a bigger yield, of main colas. Uncle ben cuts off the top, why does he do that. Because he doesn't want shitty lower bud yields... he wants, essentially, to remove the finished and let the unfinished finish out. So if uncle ben has say, 8 full size in flower, and SOG lollipopper has twice as many small size. Who yields more? I would have to say its a tie..... uncle ben will have, in a way, the buds from 16 plants tops. And the lollipopper will have 16 tops... if you both get what ur aiming for what is the big "debate", because one disagrees??... uncle ben does not like the idea of lollipopped plants, we get it. dont argue the man... let him be... hes a "botanist" for crying out loud.. theres a difference between botanist, and indoor weed gardener. The botanist went to school. the indoor weed gardener... probably cut class, jus playin. lol.... i kno everyone on here that actually grows, is proud of what they do, sometimes you gotta swallow your pride. Not everyone has the same preferences.

look them vets kno what they are doin... everytime i go to the fishing hole... an old guy teaches me something new, and boy when they tell u something u better listen if u wanna catch more fish cuz they been doin it a whole lot longer...

 

[Bob Smith]

f**k yeah well said either compare each side by side or not! some of this shit sounds like childs play tag your it no you stink back to you .geez get on with it as for the contest for clarity sounds like ones scared and the other is glad he is...shit do it or not..

You're really missing the point of the discussion, and I'd encourage you to re-read the thread for some clarity.

This isn't a juvenile "grow-off"; I was offering to run (as scientific as I am able to perform) a test of each method and report on my results.

Our growing styles our polar opposites, so a "grow-off" would be even more moronic then it is between people with similar methods.

That being said, I will address your claim that I'm glad that Uncle Ben is "scared" (which for the record, I don't believe he is, but that's neither here nor there) - I will be posting my grow journal regardless of whether or not I run this experiment, so really it makes no difference to me.

In a sense though, you are correct that I'm "glad" - was already cursing the fact that I was going to have to trim all of that bullshit popcorn at harvest just to prove a point, so if I'm not running a test, I'll just prune them all and save myself a few hours of trimming at harvest.

 

[Bob Smith]

The second "our" in line 3 above should be "are"; I'd usually edit it but in this thread I'm trying to keep my editing to a minimum.

 

[stinkbudd1]

The second "our" in line 3 above should be "are"; I'd usually edit it but in this thread I'm trying to keep my editing to a minimum.

Mr. smith if we are dealing in fact's then this is certainly one i have over the last 3-4 days read this thread completely and to give the impresssion that if someone is to comment on some of the immaturity happening in this thread it must only be if he takes one side or the other shows some of that maturity here i dont have a side one way or the other nor do i proclaim to be some know it all dictator to the facts that you are discussing but what i do know is that a lot of us here at RIU are here for one reason our interest in getting the best info possible in order to grow the best cannabis possible that and that only. some of us count on the elderstatesmen to help us in this endevour if a nerve was touched when we mention childs play then so have it you read the whole thread and then tell me its not prevelant here!
my only point is to find out what method is the best if that is what either of you are claiming..So as always i bid you and all others peace pot prosperity...2010

 

[firelane]

There is a thread in the indoor growing section called something like "perpetual" that shows how good lollipopping can be. I like to do as little work as possible when it comes to growing, so the SOG or Lollipop method seems a little too hands on for me. I would mess something up along the way. But if I was ever going to try to grow pot purely for profits, and be at my most efficient, I think SOG seems like the way to go. The dutch have to be more efficient than California hippies

 

[Acuity]

I fail to see how/why this Bob Vs Ben thing is still going. I can see both sides of the arguement, Ben knows botany - and when you start talking plant science rather than "How do u grow dank bud?" arguements over exotic techniques becomes a neck ache, so many people trying to run before they can walk. If Bob wants to find out then he can run his own unscientific comparisons side by side or back to back for his own interests, as UB has already said; you have different grow styles and that's fine.

I think at the heart of it is this holy grail of absolute maximum bud in as little time and space as possible with 1000 theorised [often fashionable, trendy] ways [many of them fundamentally retarded] to get to that goal when simply turning your attention to the growing environment in still a basic manner would acheive more. Since no one responded to UBs talk of R/FR light they presumably don't even understand how their plants receive and respond to light in a biologically meaningful way; reading a book on "plant physiology" "Botany" "plant ecology" or anything inbetween will help everyone far more than arguements over lollipopping or sogging or scrogging or anything else, unless lollipopping increases yield by around 25% reliably [which would be immediately evident] there are better things to be spending time on in the grow room.

 

[riddleme]

I love this thread, read it everyday

drama and debate can be a good thing

if nothing else it's entertaining

I think we could end it all right now if someone has a photo of a lollipop bud that would hide thier face (never seen one, but would like to)

and to Bob I have a question, are you Hydro or Soil?

 

[clasonde]

not only when i was a baby did i run before i walked, but i crawled backwards before i crawled forwards! true story.

 

[firecat75]

Great job guys... nothing better than a cock measuring contest!..... Not really interested in taking sides since knowledge is power and always welcome and appreciated.

However I am fricking pissed at the botanist and the closet gardner and the P.H D's and the rest of the wanna be mental giants because i stopped by this thread to see a discussion on " LOLLIPOPPING ".... thanks for nothing.... I am goona lolli my Beotch !! anyway..lol

 

[Bob Smith]

Mr. smith if we are dealing in fact's then this is certainly one i have over the last 3-4 days read this thread completely and to give the impresssion that if someone is to comment on some of the immaturity happening in this thread it must only be if he takes one side or the other shows some of that maturity here i dont have a side one way or the other nor do i proclaim to be some know it all dictator to the facts that you are discussing but what i do know is that a lot of us here at RIU are here for one reason our interest in getting the best info possible in order to grow the best cannabis possible that and that only. some of us count on the elderstatesmen to help us in this endevour if a nerve was touched when we mention childs play then so have it you read the whole thread and then tell me its not prevelant here!
my only point is to find out what method is the best if that is what either of you are claiming..So as always i bid you and all others peace pot prosperity...2010

I'm with you 100% on finding out which method is "better"; only thing is, the way to do that is for each of us to do our own tests, not to run tests against each other.

I didn't mean any offense when I said what I said above, and I apologize if it came off that way - I interpreted your post as somewhat of an adolescent goading of two grown men to get into a pissing match, and that's the furthest thing from what I'm trying to do.

Totally off-topic (and you can do what you'd like with this advice), using some punctuation/capitalization to break up your thoughts would make your post(s) much easier to read - I had to re-read that a couple of times to figure out where one sentence (thought) stopped and another started.