Obama May be Forced to Embrace Mary Jane

[mr2shim]

A few days old but otherwise very good read. They bring up a good point about 2012 Presidential Election. If prop 19 does indeed pass next month, someone is going to have to take a side, and I'd be willing to be the person to blink first and jump ship will gain a lot of votes for 2012 Presidential Election.

http://stopthedrugwar.org/speakeasy/2010/oct/07/obama_may_soon_be_forced_embrace

 

[growone]

this is a very interesting topic, i think the cards have already been laid on the table
department of justice(i think that is the right agency) has announced it will sue california to prevent implementation of prop 19(if it passes)
i think this is a doomed action, i also believe the DOJ knows it is doomed
doesn't care probably, but appearances are everything, it's a mandatory first step in the dance
so this will go through the court systems, probably with a whole lot of other cases, this is going to be a judicial shit storm
god i would love to see this hit the supreme court, court may just spit back 'federal government has the right to regulate commerce'
which really doesn't mean crap, but that's what thy did with MMJ when it came to them
but you never know what could happen, the worst case is no worse than it is now, the best case could be mind boggling

 

[mr2shim]

this is a very interesting topic, i think the cards have already been laid on the table
department of justice(i think that is the right agency) has announced it will sue california to prevent implementation of prop 19(if it passes)
i think this is a doomed action, i also believe the DOJ knows it is doomed
doesn't care probably, but appearances are everything, it's a mandatory first step in the dance
so this will go through the court systems, probably with a whole lot of other cases, this is going to be a judicial shit storm
god i would love to see this hit the supreme court, court may just spit back 'federal government has the right to regulate commerce'
which really doesn't mean crap, but that's what thy did with MMJ when it came to them
but you never know what could happen, the worst case is no worse than it is now, the best case could be mind boggling

Yea, I agree. The best case scenario would be Supreme Court changing marijuana laws? Ruling in favor of legalization? I'm sure that is a massive shot in the dark but who knows how prop 19 passing will affect the future.

 

[growone]

Yea, I agree. The best case scenario would be Supreme Court changing marijuana laws? Ruling in favor of legalization? I'm sure that is a massive shot in the dark but who knows how prop 19 passing will affect the future.

this is my view, which of course may not have any merit
striking down federal law i think is a zero chance, none whatsoever
however, there can be other less drastic rulings that could make the situation murky
they could refuse to hear it, basically a 'let california do what it wants", that is possible
the fundamental principle here is that state law does not have to parallel federal law, the supreme court is limited by this principle

 

[Serapis]

Look up bill SB 420

Barney Frank is a major sponsor...... it basically takes the Fed Govt out of enforcing ANY MJ laws or passing any marijuana laws. The bill is gaining clout and is currently in two committees.

 

[growone]

Look up bill SB 420

Barney Frank is a major sponsor...... it basically takes the Fed Govt out of enforcing ANY MJ laws or passing any marijuana laws. The bill is gaining clout and is currently in two committees.

yeah, this is pretty wild stuff, not sure how it will go in the next term
but bricks are being laid(so to speak), there is a presence that wants to get out of the federal MJ enforcement
not legalizing, just passing the buck to the states, which would fit well with the current reality, federal MJ law is just getting too different than state law, something has to give

 

[Serapis]

Also, the RAND group released an estimate that if the Feds got out of MJ busting biz, they would save over 8 billion a year. I'm sure they'll still bust it coming across the border, but local weed would be welcome.

 

[MacGuyver4.2.0]

Yea, I agree. The best case scenario would be Supreme Court changing marijuana laws? Ruling in favor of legalization? I'm sure that is a massive shot in the dark but who knows how prop 19 passing will affect the future.

But much to everyone's surprise here(not)..The DEA, FDA and Congress are the governing bodies that can currently change the classification of Marijuana from a schedule 1 drug to a schedule 2 (or *gasp*)3.
Unfortunately, the DEA is a self-serving entity in this regard. Two federal agencies, the Drug Enforcement Administration and the Food and Drug Administration, determine which substances are added or removed from the various schedules, though the statute passed by Congress created the initial listing, and Congress has sometimes scheduled other substances through legislation such as the Hillory J. Farias and Samantha Reid Date-Rape Prevention Act of 2000, which placed gamma hydroxybutyrate in Schedule I. Classification decisions are required to be made on criteria including potential for abuse (an undefined term),[2][3] currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States, and international treaties.Two federal agencies, the Drug Enforcement Administration and the Food and Drug Administration, determine which substances are added or removed from the various schedules, though the statute passed by Congress created the initial listing, and Congress has sometimes scheduled other substances through legislation such as the Hillory J. Farias and Samantha Reid Date-Rape Prevention Act of 2000, which placed gamma hydroxybutyrate in Schedule I. Classification decisions are required to be made on criteria including potential for abuse (an undefined term),[2][3] currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States, and international treaties. The FDA is in bed with big pharma, so *they* are not going to budge either.
Also, with the U.S. (and Canada) being signatories to the Drug proliferation treaty with the U.N. Legalization *isn't* going to happen. Commercialization by BIG PHARMA on the other hand..IS!
Did any of you know that the U.S. Government OWNS THE PATENT on MMJ? I would guess not.
More here:
https://www.rollitup.org/medical-marijuana-news/375786-u-s-government-owns-patent.html#post4767879

 

[growone]

But much to everyone's surprise here(not)..The DEA, FDA and Congress are the governing bodies that can currently change the classification of Marijuana from a schedule 1 drug to a schedule 2 (or *gasp*)3.
Unfortunately, the DEA is a self-serving entity in this regard. Two federal agencies, the Drug Enforcement Administration and the Food and Drug Administration, determine which substances are added or removed from the various schedules, though the statute passed by Congress created the initial listing, and Congress has sometimes scheduled other substances through legislation such as the Hillory J. Farias and Samantha Reid Date-Rape Prevention Act of 2000, which placed gamma hydroxybutyrate in Schedule I. Classification decisions are required to be made on criteria including potential for abuse (an undefined term),[2][3] currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States, and international treaties.Two federal agencies, the Drug Enforcement Administration and the Food and Drug Administration, determine which substances are added or removed from the various schedules, though the statute passed by Congress created the initial listing, and Congress has sometimes scheduled other substances through legislation such as the Hillory J. Farias and Samantha Reid Date-Rape Prevention Act of 2000, which placed gamma hydroxybutyrate in Schedule I. Classification decisions are required to be made on criteria including potential for abuse (an undefined term),[2][3] currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States, and international treaties. The FDA is in bed with big pharma, so *they* are not going to budge either.
Also, with the U.S. (and Canada) being signatories to the Drug proliferation treaty with the U.N. Legalization *isn't* going to happen. Commercialization by BIG PHARMA on the other hand..IS!
Did any of you know that the U.S. Government OWNS THE PATENT on MMJ? I would guess not.
More here:
https://www.rollitup.org/medical-marijuana-news/375786-u-s-government-owns-patent.html#post4767879

legalization where federal law says 'legal' probably won't happen
but that doesn't mean federal law can't improve, Holland hasn't legalized, but the laws have a very limited enforcement
big pharma no doubt will produce more cannabinoid based medications, but that isn't all bad, just makes the case for the medical use of cannabinoids stronger
just decriminalizing small scale cultivation for personal use would be a huge step, no jail, just fines

 

[mr2shim]

legalization where federal law says 'legal' probably won't happen
but that doesn't mean federal law can't improve, Holland hasn't legalized, but the laws have a very limited enforcement
big pharma no doubt will produce more cannabinoid based medications, but that isn't all bad, just makes the case for the medical use of cannabinoids stronger
just decriminalizing small scale cultivation for personal use would be a huge step, no jail, just fines

Yea, national decriminalization would be a step forward, but then again I would say it wouldn't be because North Carolina(First and only southern state to decriminalize) anything over a half an ounce will land you jail time despite it being decriminalized. Not only that if you get caught more than once with less than 1/2 ounce you get 30 days minimum. Cultivation is still a felony. So really, decriminalization is a step forward, but a very small step imo. Prop 19 is a huge step.

I would like to see national decriminalization for small scale cultivation but I doubt that will happen. I could see crazy arguments like "are you ok with having a DRUG HOUSE next door to you and your family"

 

[growone]

Yea, national decriminalization would be a step forward, but then again I would say it wouldn't be because North Carolina(First and only southern state to decriminalize) anything over a half an ounce will land you jail time despite it being decriminalized. Not only that if you get caught more than once with less than 1/2 ounce you get 30 days minimum. Cultivation is still a felony. So really, decriminalization is a step forward, but a very small step imo. Prop 19 is a huge step.

I would like to see national decriminalization for small scale cultivation but I doubt that will happen. I could see crazy arguments like "are you ok with having a DRUG HOUSE next door to you and your family"

i know what you mean, let me provide a little more detail
if only the federal government was enforcing MJ law, we'd already have decriminalization, at least in practice
DEA normally won't touch grows under 100 plants, and the weight has to be many pounds before they care
all the small scale enforcement is done by the states
if federal law started to reflect it's current practice, then in theory nothing changes
in practice though, this would be construed by some states as the federal government backing away from MJ enforcement
which does jibe with the current Obama stance, at least for MMJ, states are being given more latitude is structuring their own MJ law and enforcement

 

[nathenking]

New news guys... Obamas cabinat came out this week and said even if cali legalizes they are still going to raid and make busts through the DEA... so there you go... even if it does pass, the fed govt will with hold federal funds until the prop is abolished.... i knew this was going to happen... plus in 2012 there will be a presidential election, so the same thing is going to happen then... any president wanting to be elected in this country will have to "attack" this legalization effort to stand a chance to get elected... so for all those big warehouse grows that people are talking about, yeah right... they are gonna get raided faster than a dunkin donuts, just so obama can show that he is against it... so they will take all these peoples property, money and throw them in jail. (the people runnin the warehouses) like R. Lee.... this is gonna be crazy... watching all these capitalists that are thinking they are gonna make a buck off MJ, and then wham... they are in federal prison.... i love it... thats what you get....LOL be careful what you wish for....
here is the link:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._calpot16.html

 

[nathenking]

so any body growing and selling marijuana and paying taxes on it are self incriminating themselves under federal law.... hahaha... and the feds will put you in federal prison.... i knew this little prop 19 thing was way to good to be true... like the gov't is gonna stand by and let this shit fly... my point is, why would anybody pay taxes on MJ if that might get you prosecuted under federal law.... this debunks the "making it legal will help us with money because we can tax it" myth... because no one is gonna pay taxes on it 1. because you could get arrested and 2. its already underground so why would anybody want to give money to govt... so now that the money isnt gonna be there, and you stand to be federally prosecuted and the fact the arnold just signed the bill that anything under a ounce is a hundred dollar fine... what is really gonna change IF this passes??? seriously???

 

[growone]

this is the talk, but what do you expect from the DEA, we give up?
right before 215 passed, Janet Reno and DEA were talking the same trash, 'we will never accept MMJ'
15 years later, and MMJ has become an accepted practice, even to the federal executive branch(i.e. Obama)
so the federal stance isn't going change overnight, that is true, some rec growers will take one for the team
but things will change, and maybe a lot quicker than we think

 

[mr2shim]

this is the talk, but what do you expect from the DEA, we give up?
right before 215 passed, Janet Reno and DEA were talking the same trash, 'we will never accept MMJ'
15 years later, and MMJ has become an accepted practice, even to the federal executive branch(i.e. Obama)
so the federal stance isn't going change overnight, that is true, some rec growers will take one for the team
but things will change, and maybe a lot quicker than we think

Yep, it's quite nature people will oppose something. Especially the DEA. I guess nathenking thinks giving up is the best option. Imagine what the US would be like if MLKJ was like, I have a dream... but I'd rather not go to jail.

 

[mr2shim]

The power of google, can bring up the dead.
http://altgreen215.com/2.html

The link below is a pretty good fear based article from 1996 before Prop 215 passed. We seen it 14 years ago, we're seeing it again today. This is the only ammunition the opposing side has, FEAR.
http://articles.sfgate.com/1996-09-28/news/17783006_1_medical-marijuana-medical-rights-heroin-and-crack-cocaine

http://www.maps.org/mmj/hatch2.shtml

THE CALIFORNIA AND ARIZONA PROPOSITIONS California's Proposition 215 passed with a vote of 56%. It legalizes the medical use of marijuana for all patients who have the recommendation or approval of their physician. Patients can now possess, grow and use marijuana and still be in compliance with State of California law. Though federal authorities have vowed to fight implementation of the law, several patients facing prosecution under California law have had their cases dropped, many patients have begun to grow marijuana, and new Cannabis Buyers Clubs have been established throughout the state. Dr. Donald Abrams (UCSF) and MAPS' fruitless four and half year effort to obtain federal permission to conduct medical marijuana research still requires, and is unable to obtain, federally-licensed marijuana. Marijuana grown under Prop. 215 cannot be used for this purpose.

http://www.changetheclimate.org/news/medical-marijuana.php

[SIZE=-1]Since the passage of Prop. 215 the United States Justice Department and Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) have showed total disregard for this law and trampled on the rights of voters in California. People with cancer, AIDS, and other serious ailments who use medical marijuana to help ease their pain and suffering are being aggressively pursued and prosecuted by the federal government. Federal judges overseeing many of these cases are forbidding these seriously ill patients from making any mention of Proposition 215 or medical marijuana to the jury -- effectively making them look like "kingpins".[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]One half of the federal marijuana cases in San Francisco now involve medical marijuana, even though patients covered under Prop. 215 account for just 1% of the state's marijuana users.[/SIZE]

nathenking, I suppose you opposed Prop 215 because you are saying the Govt will do what they did with 215. How many years has it been since Prop 215? 14 now? Of course the Govt, DEA, FDA, HSS and whoever is "against" marijuana will come out and say they will continue to prosecute. THAT is what they do. Instill fear in people. Weak people, it works. Take yourself for example.

Since you fall prey to fear, I suppose you don't have a MMJ card because the fear spread around back in 1996 would have lead to the same thinking you have with Prop 19. I would also go as far to say that you opposed every other MMJ act passed across the US because the DEA will arrest people and do bad stuff. Scary.

 

[nathenking]

this is the talk, but what do you expect from the DEA, we give up?
right before 215 passed, Janet Reno and DEA were talking the same trash, 'we will never accept MMJ'
15 years later, and MMJ has become an accepted practice, even to the federal executive branch(i.e. Obama)
so the federal stance isn't going change overnight, that is true, some rec growers will take one for the team
but things will change, and maybe a lot quicker than we think

thats why a 60 year old lady in mendicino got raided by the DEA 2 months ago.... they still raid people under MMJ bro... oh, wait a minute, your from NY, thats why you dont even know whats going on around here...

 

[mr2shim]

removed.

If you knew what you were talking about you would realize Prop 19 says NOTHING about 5x5 limit. It's 25 sq ft! It could be 1'x25' If you're going to argue against something at least have your facts straight.

 

[nathenking]

Yep, it's quite nature people will oppose something. Especially the DEA. I guess nathenking thinks giving up is the best option. Imagine what the US would be like if MLKJ was like, I have a dream... but I'd rather not go to jail.

Wow, you compare marijuana to human rights.... Absolutly pathetic man.... congrats you still can find a way to put your foot in your mouth no matter what the topic may be....

 

[nathenking]

If you knew what you were talking about you would realize Prop 19 says NOTHING about 5x5 limit. It's 25 sq ft! It could be 1'x25' If you're going to argue against something at least have your facts straight.

mrshim, where are you from man??? i almost can garantee its not from nor cal. am i right????