Led Users Unite!

[660nm420]

Very well put. I do think that there is a marketing factor in every business and it's necessary to attract general consumers but often pisses off the informed consumers. LED is certainly proving to be no different. I am really impressed with my lights but do hate some of the claims on the manufacturers website, just glad I did my homework and still bought them. I just had a different manufactuer rip me because I paid more for my lights and they pull only half the wattage of his but I'm producing the same results. Same results....half the power....I fail to see how I screwed up....lol

Yeah if I got half the watts as advertised I would be just as pissed as when kessil sent me half a light!

 

[brosmoke]

Okay so im new to the led game and was wondering what the benifits of all these extra wave legnths besides the ones good for veg and flower. Here's a example in veg growth the wavelegnth that is absorbed is 400-520 nm (a cool blue like color) and for flower it absorbed 610-720 nm so what is up with those light having extra wavelegnths that do not fall between those and do they benifit anything or is it just to make it seem superior to say a lamp with three wavelegnths that fall under the exact nm used by the plant.

 

[660nm420]

Okay so im new to the led game and was wondering what the benifits of all these extra wave legnths besides the ones good for veg and flower. Here's a example in veg growth the wavelegnth that is absorbed is 400-520 nm (a cool blue like color) and for flower it absorbed 610-720 nm so what is up with those light having extra wavelegnths that do not fall between those and do they benifit anything or is it just to make it seem superior to say a lamp with three wavelegnths that fall under the exact nm used by the plant.

Some like the ISIS-fx models and growl include UV at 365-366nm claiming it helps to control molds and IR at 750nm claiming it boosts flowering.

 

[yesum]

^^Some knowledgeable people do not buy the certain wavelengths story. Green does seem to help growth and far red 720-740 can help with flowering. I do not have an opinion, but 660 and 460nm do not seem to be the end all for plants. You can certainly grow good plants with just 1 basic blue and 1 red spectrum LEDs however.

 

[brosmoke]

Some like the ISIS-fx models and growl include UV at 365-366nm claiming it helps to control molds and IR at 750nm claiming it boosts flowering.

So basically the other wavelegnths are used to compliment the wavelegnths that are used by the plant?

 

[dunit]

^^Some knowledgeable people do not buy the certain wavelengths story. Green does seem to help growth and far red 720-740 can help with flowering. I do not have an opinion, but 660 and 460nm do not seem to be the end all for plants. You can certainly grow good plants with just 1 basic blue and 1 red spectrum LEDs however.

You can veg good plants but they don't flower worth crap. I ran procyons a couple years back. They were unshielded 2 watt CREE LED's which was why they cost a fortune and they had great intensity but only one spectrum of blue and two of red. They vegged better than anything I'd ever seen but couldn't flower to save their lives. An eight week strain took ten weeks to mature, the stretch was huge and the yield was just under .4 grams per watt.

 

[OhioMediGrower]

Hey guys heres my custom built 4x8x6.5 ft grow box with a digital 600 watt hps and a 300 watt LED, 8 plants 6 strains all organic in subcools super soil.

Here is a vid from the garden.

[video=youtube;HsX62mhuMT4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsX62mhuMT4[/video]

 

[chazbolin]

Thank you dunit.

I don't rep anything I just find plant growth with artificial lighting a fascinating part of what our plants react to. It's really not that difficult but the mfg's tend to gloss over the little details that might want you to intelligently question what their products are really doing for the plant. And photomorphogenesis is essential to what a plant looks for from light be it solar or man made that every grower should at least know something about. For those that find it's too much info then ignore it but it is a fact of successful plant growth.

There are spectrums other than just the four chlorophyl peaks that are important for plant health and most importantly flowering. For example, without properly addressing Phytochrome production the plant will stretch, waste energy and lose yield. Pretty much all the LED panels on the market will grow plants and produce bud but only the lights that properly address all the plants needs will produce the big results.

+rep Chazbolin

 

[dunit]

Thank you dunit.

I don't rep anything I just find plant growth with artificial lighting a fascinating part of what our plants react to. It's really not that difficult but the mfg's tend to gloss over the little details that might want you to intelligently question what their products are really doing for the plant. And photomorphogenesis is essential to what a plant looks for from light be it solar or man made that every grower should at least know something about. For those that find it's too much info then ignore it but it is a fact of successful plant growth.

Yeah I'm not a big fan of "trust me it works" when I'm laying out my money.....especially when I can't find any proof. Completed grow journals with actual results are a good start and google is our friend for locating those. I also think forums are like books and believing just one author isn't always the best plan. Some forums support specific manufacturers and limit the information from non-sponsors. I was on four forums but just got banned from 420 for basically posting results that apparently a paid sponsor objected to. I was stunned.

 

[chazbolin]

Oh I've been there! I took a substantial hit on a major mfg of LED lamps that uses CREE drivers on a retrofit from 50 watt quartz lamps to 3 watt LED that had a 'promised mortality' of 30K hrs. In 6 months 40% of these fucking things had burned out. The mfg blamed the problem on 'thermal mismanagement' and denied the warranty. So now I REALLY read the fine print.

I like LED for grow applications and have had some good results with using them as a supplement to HPS in the 640-650 nm ranges. However my biggest complaint has been with cascading failures that have occurred on the arrays and the mfg, KESSIL, I bought these from wants you to return the entire fixture when it's just a single array. To much work for anyone that has a life.

Cheers

 

[budlover909]

just read more on phytochromes and 750nm is too far outside of the peakband 720 is better cant these guys do any basic research and follow cited sources

 

[budlover909]

Oh I've been there! I took a substantial hit on a major mfg of LED lamps that uses CREE drivers on a retrofit from 50 watt quartz lamps to 3 watt LED that had a 'promised mortality' of 30K hrs. In 6 months 40% of these fucking things had burned out. The mfg blamed the problem on 'thermal mismanagement' and denied the warranty. So now I REALLY read the fine print.

I like LED for grow applications and have had some good results with using them as a supplement to HPS in the 640-650 nm ranges. However my biggest complaint has been with cascading failures that have occurred on the arrays and the mfg, KESSIL, I bought these from wants you to return the entire fixture when it's just a single array. To much work for anyone that has a life.

Cheers

they want you to send the whole thing back so you can't look inside and steal their designs this is typical in most industries

 

[ColoradoLove]

So I've been looking @ ISIS/Magnum panels and called them yesterday to inquire about some actual draw questions, here's what I found out.

ISIS/Magnum is the same company has discontinued all their panels other than the FX1 170w (actual draw 120w) and the 357 Magnum (actual draw 180w).

 

[jdizzle22]

So I've been looking @ ISIS/Magnum panels and called them yesterday to inquire about some actual draw questions, here's what I found out.

ISIS/Magnum is the same company has discontinued all their panels other than the FX1 170w (actual draw 120w) and the 357 Magnum (actual draw 180w).

Anyone know whats up with that? Are they starting a new line? Running out of business? Focusing on popular models? Etc? Etc?

 

[ColoradoLove]

I got the feeling the Magnum is their flagship and the FX 1 is the new little brother. Who knows though, maybe they're revamping. The dude didn't mention any re-designing just that they were only focusing on those two panels moving forward. I believe he said they were the only panels you'd ever need.

 

[chazbolin]

just read more on phytochromes and 750nm is too far outside of the peakband 720 is better cant these guys do any basic research and follow cited sources

There are two forms of phytochrome and the absorption spectra is different for both. The red light phytochrome (Pr form) tends to peak absorb @ 660 nm while the Pfr form absorbs far red light in the 730 nm range.

The advantages and disadvantages of red-far red absorption have been well documented over peer reviewed essays from germination to flower. I would cite an excellent article and introduction to basic photomorphogenesis @ http://www.photobiology.info/Shinkle.html where the interconversion of the two phytochrome forms are wavelength diagrammed

 

[dunit]

Anyone know whats up with that? Are they starting a new line? Running out of business? Focusing on popular models? Etc? Etc?

I'm pretty sure I've posted about this a few times and probably in my journals somewhere but here goes. When I was researching to buy lights I found GrowPerfect which is the parent company of ISIS. I really liked ISIS lights but was looking for something with all 3W LED's and narrower lens angles. ISIS are a hybrid panel in that they use different wattages. Their reds are all 3W and the rest are 1W. In hindsight, based on the results ISIS has gotten they may be onto something there. It does kinda make sense as HPS has been the king of the hill for years and their power range is all red.

Anyway, I phoned to talk to them and found out they were launching a new product, the Magnum, and didn't even have a website up yet and I think I got the first two consumer units sold. At that time they said that after launching the magnum they were gonna phase out their bigger ISIS panels and stick to two or three proven, polular designs. I recommended that they make a veg panel but haven't got any feedback on that so far.

 

[chazbolin]

they want you to send the whole thing back so you can't look inside and steal their designs this is typical in most industries

Point taken. Certainly reverse engineering is a consideration but why not reverse engineer a working fixture if that's your intention. I think most people simply want a working light with the least amount of hassle and really don't have an interest in getting into the mfg side of these fixtures.

To me if I have a series of arrays are out I'll order the new backup LED lamps to replace those that fail before there are cascading failures since I want to maintain the spectrum's and intensities throughout the grow. This certainly has to be less expensive to everyone then having to send the entire fixture back.

 

[littleshroomie]

Using a 250w hps, and cant still decide if i should jump on the LED train just yet...
From what i have seen, LED needs to be around 90% wattage of hid(?) to get great yield?
Have been watching irish's threads thats what im basing my guesses at.

I got a great deal on a digital 600w cooltubed hps kit, 150euro, or same kit but a 400w for 125euro,but LED's doesnt require bulb/chip replacement (hopefully).
In that sense, i need to be looking at around 300- 500w of LEDS?

My idea is to use the 250+LED, or 250+400 in same room, or get the 600w for A seperate ,new grow room.
Guessing the blackstar "240" i have been looking at wont cut it?

Edit: the led option (any model) will help me out greatly in the summer though.
Since i have been switching on and off a 125w cfl in the hottest periods.
Maybe led+cfl is my better choice,anyways in the summer?
Last year i had 37-42degrees in the coolest room,in the hottest hours.
However, the 600w option gives me more yield for the rest of the year.

Blackstar users, what do you think of the 180/240/300w models?

 

[jdizzle22]

Using a 250w hps, and cant still decide if i should jump on the LED train just yet...
From what i have seen, LED needs to be around 90% wattage of hid(?) to get great yield?
Have been watching irish's threads thats what im basing my guesses at.

I got a great deal on a digital 600w cooltubed hps kit, 150euro, or same kit but a 400w for 125euro,but LED's doesnt require bulb/chip replacement (hopefully).
In that sense, i need to be looking at around 300- 500w of LEDS?

My idea is to use the 250+LED, or 250+400 in same room, or get the 600w for A seperate ,new grow room.
Guessing the blackstar "240" i have been looking at wont cut it?

Edit: the led option (any model) will help me out greatly in the summer though.
Since i have been switching on and off a 125w cfl in the hottest periods.
Maybe led+cfl is my better choice,anyways in the summer?
Last year i had 37-42degrees in the coolest room,in the hottest hours.
However, the 600w option gives me more yield for the rest of the year.

Blackstar users, what do you think of the 180/240/300w models?

The Blackstar 240w runs on either 133w or 150w (I can't remember) and so its probably only optimal for 2ft x 2ft at best. How big were your growing areas?

Also: How are you following IrishBoys journals and yet you want a blackstar and not a Spectra?