LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow
- Thread starter pr0fesseur
- Start date
hyroot
Well-Known Member
Cali Connection is the only place that i know of that has anything close to sour d
http://thecaliconnectionltd.co.uk/products.php
for white widow, greenhouse seeds has it and soma seeds has 2 white widow crosses. i think somas would be better. ive done his rockbud and lavender and wow.
https://www.seedboutique.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=18302&Name=SeedList-Green-House-Seed-Co-Fem-10-pack-White-Widow&Type=PD
https://www.seedboutique.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=18542&Name=SeedList-Soma-Seeds-Standard-White-Light&Type=PD
https://www.seedboutique.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=18543&Name=SeedList-Soma-Seeds-Standard-White-Willow&Type=PD
soma has afghan delight too.
https://www.seedboutique.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=18524&Name=SeedList-Soma-Seeds-Standard-Afghan-Delight&Type=PD
I want to try soma citrilah and somango. I want to try the afghan delight too, but I already have afghani bullrider.
BlueB
Active Member
In regards to the gro-lux type of plant grow bulb.
FROM ED ROSENTHAL
"Theoretically, these tubes should work better for growing plants than standard lighting tubes. However, some standard or regular fluorescent tubes used for lighting actually work better for growing plants than more expensive natural-spectrum tubes and gro-tubes specifically manufactured for plant growth. The reason is that regular fluorescent produce more light (lumens), and overall lumen output is more important for growth rate than a specific light spectrum. To compensate for their spectrums, use them in combinations of one "blue" fluorescent to each one or two "red" fluorescent (Box B)."
http://www.1stmarijuanagrowerspage.com/how-to-grow-marijuana.html#c5-3
section 5.3
BlueB
Active Member
AWWW MAAANNNNN!!!!!!!!
Don't mean to burst everyone's Fiji Purple bubble buttttttttt.....................looks like the Fiji's only have about 5% Red in them. They do appear really blue from photos I have seen so this does make sense.
From Thomas.
"Particularly for reef aquariums this new T5 serves lighting as however lighting or as additive for the HQI. This new spectrum was tested and developed particularly for SPS. High life span, high-quality, German quality product. The tube has one approx. 5-6% red part."
http://www.zeovit.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-7829.html
Don't mean to burst everyone's Fiji Purple bubble buttttttttt.....................looks like the Fiji's only have about 5% Red in them. They do appear really blue from photos I have seen so this does make sense.
From Thomas.
"Particularly for reef aquariums this new T5 serves lighting as however lighting or as additive for the HQI. This new spectrum was tested and developed particularly for SPS. High life span, high-quality, German quality product. The tube has one approx. 5-6% red part."
http://www.zeovit.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-7829.html
Undercover Cop
Active Member
The Pipi Im getting is WW x PowerPlant
Ill admit Im total noob as far as genetics go (for now) but just thinking about it makes me all tingly! 
hyroot
Well-Known Member
How old is that thread? The one I found where it was Thomas himself posting, he stated that he had come up with a new spectrum for the fiji that is similar to a hagen bulb. The one I found was from 2006.
This is the same thread that you posted.
BlueB
Active Member
Yeah man 2006
hyroot
Well-Known Member
I know. I was just reitterating it in comparison to what he found.
mipainpatient
Active Member
these are my own words fyi, you have my permission to repost but with credit via link so the whole thread is cited etc (this has been a communal project, lead by respected members of the forum)
Hey all this was originally just a pm I sent to undercover but he said it was helpful and I guess I can just copy it to here too, was trying to relax a bit before I posted more since I let someone I wont even mention get to me a touch.
So here ya go,
Blue light:
Causes phototropism (plants grow towards it if there is a clear “area with blue” and “area without” they will favor the former. Provide enough and you have created an environment which may signal to the plant (via saturation, or oversaturation---yes it is possible to deliver too much light) that it should not/will not grow anymore. Because the ratio of “good quality light” (PAR) to infrared is known to bring about specific genetic expression changes (morphisms) such as generative expression, which we commonly call “flowering” (yes photoperiod does this too). I submit that these ratios, when changed, cause stress to the plants and the generative expression is a survival response to the stress.
**edit** Also I've gone over lower canopy light before, and rehash it shortly but while I'm on generative expression and stress, think about what lower canopy light signals:
My flowers also don't get the wind. And all the good lookin females are up nude-sunbathing (RE: trichs as sunscreen) in the good quality light....
If this is a male, this could be the difference between survival or not. Anyone ever seen a male stretch? No doubt. Look at corn plants... holy cow! The Takeway from the edit---> ever heard of hermies? wonder if green light might trigger hermie response (+/- other stress factors withstanding)? don't we all...
So two concepts for bulb selection, placement, and light management (reflection)
1) Photoperiod is what you are going to use to initiate generative expression, you do not need to change your bulb colors, like that pinky? Get it in there from the get go. There are links showing the light quality will effect gene expression of the plant later on. Drastic (not that 1-3 out of an 8 bulb setup is that drastic) changes should be assumed to disrupt the circadian rhythm of the plant and will be an additional source of stress.
2) Sun irradiance graph is essential (Wikipedia on sunlight) the upper line is higher atmosphere radiation, there is another for sea level. Most likely mountain strains expect something closer to the PAR ratios seen in the upper atmosphere light, moreso at least than the balance seen in sea level. I take this to mean that one may push the low nm light a bit more (as we all know the prof and others have cited the 1986-7 studies showing increase in cannabinoids resulting from UVb exposure) There are also solid links between plants with anthocyanin (red pigment) and increased flux capacity tolerance for blue light spectrum---they can handle more before becoming overloaded/oversaturated. Again back to the graph, certain compounds/elements absorb certain ranges, something you see in the difference between the sea level and the upper atmosphere light spectrum ratios (favoring the blue more in the upper atmosphere, more flat in the sea level). 2 things from this—sea level plants in addition to canopy filtering (only yellow/green/infrared gets through) have atmospheric filtering. So results seen with mountain strains are not consistent with others, and hybrids are a dice-roll depending on which sets of predetermined favored genes you draw (and are thusly expressed at the expected junctures) How do you take this info and maximize your efficiency in an indoor growing environment? You need to keep your reflectors close to the center of irradiation (tents work great for this), keep the lights close too---a PAR meter or even a photometer measuring lumens should help as you are trying to determine the general field of emission from the light and maximize your placement choice results, the photon emission “degradation” at measured distances could help you figure this out. After reflectors and light distance is in check, you will want to train your plant to maximize the different growing environment, luckily mountain strains are already genetically prepared for this—short veg periods, early quick flower, etc. Pick the line on the sun graph you want to emulate, combine single or select banded bulbs that get an average “unit” (light fixture) emission of the banding range you want and you are ALL SET FOR A PAR GRO BROTHA
Please hit me back with any questions,
MPP
edit:
this may help, if you can get to it:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/a3527u6018823x43/
Hey all this was originally just a pm I sent to undercover but he said it was helpful and I guess I can just copy it to here too, was trying to relax a bit before I posted more since I let someone I wont even mention get to me a touch.
So here ya go,
Blue light:
Causes phototropism (plants grow towards it if there is a clear “area with blue” and “area without” they will favor the former. Provide enough and you have created an environment which may signal to the plant (via saturation, or oversaturation---yes it is possible to deliver too much light) that it should not/will not grow anymore. Because the ratio of “good quality light” (PAR) to infrared is known to bring about specific genetic expression changes (morphisms) such as generative expression, which we commonly call “flowering” (yes photoperiod does this too). I submit that these ratios, when changed, cause stress to the plants and the generative expression is a survival response to the stress.
**edit** Also I've gone over lower canopy light before, and rehash it shortly but while I'm on generative expression and stress, think about what lower canopy light signals:
My flowers also don't get the wind. And all the good lookin females are up nude-sunbathing (RE: trichs as sunscreen) in the good quality light....
If this is a male, this could be the difference between survival or not. Anyone ever seen a male stretch? No doubt. Look at corn plants... holy cow! The Takeway from the edit---> ever heard of hermies? wonder if green light might trigger hermie response (+/- other stress factors withstanding)? don't we all...
So two concepts for bulb selection, placement, and light management (reflection)
1) Photoperiod is what you are going to use to initiate generative expression, you do not need to change your bulb colors, like that pinky? Get it in there from the get go. There are links showing the light quality will effect gene expression of the plant later on. Drastic (not that 1-3 out of an 8 bulb setup is that drastic) changes should be assumed to disrupt the circadian rhythm of the plant and will be an additional source of stress.
2) Sun irradiance graph is essential (Wikipedia on sunlight) the upper line is higher atmosphere radiation, there is another for sea level. Most likely mountain strains expect something closer to the PAR ratios seen in the upper atmosphere light, moreso at least than the balance seen in sea level. I take this to mean that one may push the low nm light a bit more (as we all know the prof and others have cited the 1986-7 studies showing increase in cannabinoids resulting from UVb exposure) There are also solid links between plants with anthocyanin (red pigment) and increased flux capacity tolerance for blue light spectrum---they can handle more before becoming overloaded/oversaturated. Again back to the graph, certain compounds/elements absorb certain ranges, something you see in the difference between the sea level and the upper atmosphere light spectrum ratios (favoring the blue more in the upper atmosphere, more flat in the sea level). 2 things from this—sea level plants in addition to canopy filtering (only yellow/green/infrared gets through) have atmospheric filtering. So results seen with mountain strains are not consistent with others, and hybrids are a dice-roll depending on which sets of predetermined favored genes you draw (and are thusly expressed at the expected junctures) How do you take this info and maximize your efficiency in an indoor growing environment? You need to keep your reflectors close to the center of irradiation (tents work great for this), keep the lights close too---a PAR meter or even a photometer measuring lumens should help as you are trying to determine the general field of emission from the light and maximize your placement choice results, the photon emission “degradation” at measured distances could help you figure this out. After reflectors and light distance is in check, you will want to train your plant to maximize the different growing environment, luckily mountain strains are already genetically prepared for this—short veg periods, early quick flower, etc. Pick the line on the sun graph you want to emulate, combine single or select banded bulbs that get an average “unit” (light fixture) emission of the banding range you want and you are ALL SET FOR A PAR GRO BROTHA
Please hit me back with any questions,
MPP
edit:
this may help, if you can get to it:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/a3527u6018823x43/
Undercover Cop
Active Member
wait, are you saying that we can pick whatever bulbs we like to create a UNIQUE and INDIVIDUAL light spectrum based on our preferences and growing style, which means that by changing bulbs we can find what combination works best in OUR OWN situations? Genius!
mipainpatient
Active Member
the flux density 1?
Honestly I found that so long ago and so many other studies I found were because of that I just assumed everyone knew...been spending winter break wisely, piling up the archives....
check this out:
http://www.medicinalgenomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/The-Response-of-Terpenoids-to-Exogenous-Gibberellic-Acid-in-Cannabis-Sativa-L-at-Vegetative-Stage-2010.pdf
(I would hope I get some rep for it at least, even tho soliciting for it makes me feel odd)
and this is cool looking too!:
http://wpcontent.answcdn.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Atmospheric_Transmission.png/300px-Atmospheric_Transmission.png
which if you can read the small font, makes this a fun read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_scattering
my favorite part of which is the following:
For example, the major constituent of the atmosphere, nitrogen, has a Rayleigh cross section of5.1×10[SUP]−31[/SUP] m[SUP]2[/SUP] at a wavelength of 532 nm (green light).[SUP][3][/SUP] This means that at atmospheric pressure, about a fraction 10[SUP]−5[/SUP] of light will be scattered for every meter of travel.
and this part might address why you gotta have your stuff close, or reflectors close(r)
The strong wavelength dependence of the scattering (~λ[SUP]−4[/SUP]) means that shorter (blue) wavelengths are scattered more strongly than longer (red) wavelengths. This results in the indirect blue light coming from all regions of the sky. Rayleigh scattering is a good approximation of the manner in which light scattering occurs within various media for which scattering particles have a small size parameter.
All of which I will conclude for the night with by indicating that info like this is not what you life by, its what you use to DIAL-IN
Peace all
do you guys think i could germ 5 babies under a 75w t5 untill they start to grow then put them under my 4foot 4 bulb or should i just put them under the 4 footer and when thry sprot keep it going
im thinking under the 75w unill they grow a lil then put them under the 4 footer im going to be vegging for abot 20/4 because 2 of the 5 are autos and it says they do good under 20/4 but they do best on 24 or should i just go 24/0 untill autos are done and after the 2 moths the autos take tobe done would it hurt the outhers if i lowerd time sothey accualy have a dark phase before putting into flowering
im thinking under the 75w unill they grow a lil then put them under the 4 footer im going to be vegging for abot 20/4 because 2 of the 5 are autos and it says they do good under 20/4 but they do best on 24 or should i just go 24/0 untill autos are done and after the 2 moths the autos take tobe done would it hurt the outhers if i lowerd time sothey accualy have a dark phase before putting into flowering
mipainpatient
Active Member
milfblaster
Member
I've read that black widow from Mr. nice is the real white widow. I have no idea but it's a good story. Might be worth looking into if you're on a widow quest.
Lucius Vorenus
Well-Known Member
FYI: I grow a lot of plants and have been playing a lot lately.
My magic blend that grows plants in veg like CRAZY is this.
8 bulb bad boy fixture
6500k
Fiji
6500
6500
6500
Fiji
6500
6500
Don't ask me why but this mix is growing my plants insanely fast.
As for bloom, we shall see. Gonna mix things up this time around and do 8 LST'd plants under 2 8 bulb batboys with the following mix
6500
Fiji
Red sun
Red sun
6500
Fiji
Red sun
We shall see!
Ps: my 6500's are some no name brand but they have been treating me great so far in Veg so I'm guessing they have a pretty decent spectrum that the plants are obviously "using"
My magic blend that grows plants in veg like CRAZY is this.
8 bulb bad boy fixture
6500k
Fiji
6500
6500
6500
Fiji
6500
6500
Don't ask me why but this mix is growing my plants insanely fast.
As for bloom, we shall see. Gonna mix things up this time around and do 8 LST'd plants under 2 8 bulb batboys with the following mix
6500
Fiji
Red sun
Red sun
6500
Fiji
Red sun
We shall see!
Ps: my 6500's are some no name brand but they have been treating me great so far in Veg so I'm guessing they have a pretty decent spectrum that the plants are obviously "using"