Can Capitalism survive?

[Jimdamick]

Unfettered capitalism brought the world to it knees not to long ago, and it all could be traced back to Wall St. Not one executive was charged with any crime, and more than one made money off of it. This is one problem I have with it. There are no real constraints on this type of looting, and man's nature being what it is, these liars and thieves just do what they want because they think they are too big to fail, which might be the case without government bailouts. They are not held accountable for there actions, and are actually rewarded for it. This behavior is going to bankrupt countries, like we have today, not just some company or individual. I know there is little to no chance for change, as man is too fucking greedy, but I still think it is going to make things worse for many, many people on this planet, which will be interesting to see how they react.

 

[budsmoker87]

^dumbass, that wasn't "unfettered capitalism" it was outright fraud

 

[Doer]

Unfettered capitalism brought the world to it knees not to long ago, and it all could be traced back to Wall St. Not one executive was charged with any crime, and more than one made money off of it. This is one problem I have with it. There are no real constraints on this type of looting, and man's nature being what it is, these liars and thieves just do what they want because they think they are too big to fail, which might be the case without government bailouts. They are not held accountable for there actions, and are actually rewarded for it. This behavior is going to bankrupt countries, like we have today, not just some company or individual. I know there is little to no chance for change, as man is too fucking greedy, but I still think it is going to make things worse for many, many people on this planet, which will be interesting to see how they react.

An unfetter Congressional Committee colluding with the quasi-govt home loan giants, singlehandedly did that by fettering Capital to the point that anyone could have a chicken in the pot, and a house on a lot.

And it was China that verified the full fail and credit (fraud) for WE. That froze the credit markets. Bush used it as a big stick against Russian oil and $132 a barrel. (re-arming extravaganza prices) He went public. That landed a heavy blow on Puttie and we took an easily absorbed graze.

Now it is Obama's turn to fetter Capital, to bail out the Union/Mob Ponzi shame. (whew...dodged a bullet there, no kidding) Good Job. What Presidents are for.

So, perhaps you are just not seeing the big picture of Global Economic Warfare. GEW replaced GTNW, largely, because the infrastructure is too expensive.

Although, TTNW is almost ready to take out of the oven...boom.

 

[twostrokenut]

Hey Jim I agree with everything you are saying except for calling it capitalism....."unfettered capitalism" actually insures no-one gets too big to fail......fear of loss knowing they can fail right alongside the little guy if people dont use their goods or services.........the stock market crashes, all of them including the 30's were modeled after Waterloo..............the ability of speculation to sway demand artificially....also a side effect of dishonesty and a very real result of being quite fettered.

 

[Wavels]

Crony Capitalism is what has been, and is failing. Hardly unfettered.

Capitalism sort of sucks, but it happens to be far superior to any system yet devised.

The alternatives are so much worse.

 

[desert dude]

Maybe a better question to ask is: What economic system can supplant free market capitalism?

 

[Doer]

Maybe a better question to ask is: What economic system can supplant free market capitalism?

Nashian Economic Theory suggests there can be no free market that can survive the black heart of man over time.
The best is controlled and licensed competition. The controls are such as to reward cooperation and to level competition of the natural consolidators of various markets, as they arise and fall.

IBMs main thing was the Ball typewriter, got them through those lean times in the 70s. Now IBM will license software from a lot of Cooperators/Rivals. They make vast sums on Servicing it all.

 

[Wavels]

Maybe a better question to ask is: What economic system can supplant free market capitalism?

There is no system that works as well. This is why many nations are making their markets more free, to take advantage of capitalism's dynamic propellant force.
In the USA we are working diligently to fetter our markets even more stringently.

Not only is the US amazingly increasing foolish and burdensome regulations, our institutions are now so dysfunctional and corrupt that we are fundamentally changing America.

This was in the WSJ today and it outlines the decline of our "free" market system.

Yes, we Americans have the right to be stupid if we want to be. We can carry on pretending that our economic problems can be solved with the help of yet more fiscal stimulus or quantitative easing. Or we can face up to the institutional impediments to growth I have described here.Not many economists talk about them, it's true. But that's because not many economists run businesses.





http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324798904578527552326836118.html?mod=WSJ_LifeStyle_Lifestyle_6

 

[budsmoker87]

An unfetter Congressional Committee colluding with the quasi-govt home loan giants, singlehandedly did that by fettering Capital to the point that anyone could have a chicken in the pot, and a house on a lot.

And it was China that verified the full fail and credit (fraud) for WE. That froze the credit markets. Bush used it as a big stick against Russian oil and $132 a barrel. (re-arming extravaganza prices) He went public. That landed a heavy blow on Puttie and we took an easily absorbed graze.

Now it is Obama's turn to fetter Capital, to bail out the Union/Mob Ponzi shame. (whew...dodged a bullet there, no kidding) Good Job. What Presidents are for.

So, perhaps you are just not seeing the big picture of Global Economic Warfare. GEW replaced GTNW, largely, because the infrastructure is too expensive.

Although, TTNW is almost ready to take out of the oven...boom.

Wrong again. The entire financial crisis was the result of derivatives. Putting the blame on homeowners who had access to easy credit is like blaming welfare recipients for taxes, when in reality corporate welfare (subsidies) account for far greater redistribution than any federal funded housing or food stamps

 

[Jimdamick]

Nashian Economic Theory suggests there can be no free market that can survive the black heart of man over time.
The best is controlled and licensed competition. The controls are such as to reward cooperation and to level competition of the natural consolidators of various markets, as they arise and fall.

IBMs main thing was the Ball typewriter, got them through those lean times in the 70s. Now IBM will license software from a lot of Cooperators/Rivals. They make vast sums on Servicing it all.

See, Nashian theory makes sense. There isn't any fettering, that's the big problem. What there is isn't really enforced and/or the penalties are laughable. It's the cowboy capitalism that is giving it a bad name, and no one wants to stop it. The SEC is a joke, the Republican think there are too many restrictions in place now and the rest of the world has to play along or they will be economically crushed. There are solutions to the collateral damage, but that tastes too much like socialism, and you know how the US just loves that word. Maybe a little socialism mixed in with capitalism might work. But that would mean more taxes, which also doesn't sit well with the powers that be in Washington, which the world still treats like it is the great and powerful OZ. I think some solution has to be found because I say again without some manmade adjustment based on law, this way of doing business is going to cause more unrest internationally, and that climate is unhealthy for business. Here's a new thought, why is socialism so bad? Is it because it actually works in some countries?

 

[desert dude]

See, Nashian theory makes sense. There isn't any fettering, that's the big problem. What there is isn't really enforced and/or the penalties are laughable. It's the cowboy capitalism that is giving it a bad name, and no one wants to stop it. The SEC is a joke, the Republican think there are too many restrictions in place now and the rest of the world has to play along or they will be economically crushed. There are solutions to the collateral damage, but that tastes too much like socialism, and you know how the US just loves that word. Maybe a little socialism mixed in with capitalism might work. But that would mean more taxes, which also doesn't sit well with the powers that be in Washington, which the world still treats like it is the great and powerful OZ. I think some solution has to be found because I say again without some manmade adjustment based on law, this way of doing business is going to cause more unrest internationally, and that climate is unhealthy for business. Here's a new thought, why is socialism so bad? Is it because it actually works in some countries?

Are you willing to work and be productive and give away most of your efforts so the shiftless faceless schmuck in the next town can have a standard of living about equal to your own? Are you willing to give away most of your productive efforts so your leaders can decide how best to divvy up your wealth to keep themselves in power?

Socialism is a disincentive to those who are productive. Under socialism, productive people will either scam the system by going black market, or they will loaf. The best solution is for a thriving black market, at least some real wealth is being created there. If everybody just kicks back then the only thing being created is poverty.

 

[Jimdamick]

The word of the day is fettering. All responses must use it correctly in a sentence, or they will be ignored

 

[Doer]

Feckless un-fettering is worse than no fetter, at all. The Federal role in fettering the fearless is only outdone by the fearless unfettering of the fearful by the States.

 

[Jimdamick]

I used to be productive until the company I worked for crashed and burned during the Great Recession taking my retirement with it. I apparently don't have enough good years left in me, and would cost too much to insure to be employable today, so I am a casualty of capitalism I guess. Sucking off the teat of the government didn't last long, but thankfully I can make enough to get by using my limited gardening skills, so I am a capitalist too I guess. I just hope all the money I'm making doesn't turn me into the pricks that most of my bosses were. But you gotta do what you gotta do to survive in this fucked up world.

 

[twostrokenut]

How is what we actually have in place here today not socialism merely going by the name of fettered capitalism? The socialism we have in place is what is failing. I am pretty hard pressed to think of a socialist place, not scared to label it as such, that is actually working. It's just one of those things that gets repeated so much it must be true..."we're capitalists".

I almost lost my ass on a home I "owned" for 10 years. Wanted to sell and move to the west coast. It was worth less than I owed and all said I would have to finance the fee's and difference to "save my credit".....that I would be stuck. Everyone seemed to forget I could just walk away and leave it....now the government owns it, which is according to the plan imo.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Wrong again. The entire financial crisis was the result of derivatives. Putting the blame on homeowners who had access to easy credit is like blaming welfare recipients for taxes, when in reality corporate welfare (subsidies) account for far greater redistribution than any federal funded housing or food stamps

"Wrong Again. The Entire Financial Crisis Was The Result Of" 100 years of debt leveraging across EVERY level of society, not just Derivatives Baccarat. Derivatives Baccarat was an inevitable result of fucked up moronic regulations which requires business managers to make profits by any means possible (fiduciary responsibility laws), yet punishes real solid investments such as land, factories, expansion of industry, new products or innovative services.

building a new factory to make shoes in america requires milllions of bucks in land use waivers, environmental impact studies, government permits, and legal challenges from every special interest group that can devise a way to shake an ambitious cobbler down, before the first shovel full of dirt gets turned, and failure at any step along the way can result in the end of your project with no way to recoup the costs incurred, buying a piece of somebody else's risk is much safer than risking shit yourself, and thats why derivatives were "invented".

the financial crisis was a firestorm of debts being called in, kicking the legs out from under the already shaky system that government created, and then forced the market into.


plus a lot of dumbasses finally lost the shirts they deserved to lose for decades, untill Boosh and Obama made us buy them a new wardrobe full of armani suits.

the financial crisis was not caused by any one thing, unless you want to go to basic principles, in which case the crises was 100% the result of bad laws and bad investments built on the foundation of the federal reserve debt money system.

 

[Jimdamick]

"Wrong Again. The Entire Financial Crisis Was The Result Of" 100 years of debt leveraging across EVERY level of society, not just Derivatives Baccarat. Derivatives Baccarat was an inevitable result of fucked up moronic regulations which requires business managers to make profits by any means possible (fiduciary responsibility laws), yet punishes real solid investments such as land, factories, expansion of industry, new products or innovative services.

building a new factory to make shoes in america requires milllions of bucks in land use waivers, environmental impact studies, government permits, and legal challenges from every special interest group that can devise a way to shake an ambitious cobbler down, before the first shovel full of dirt gets turned, and failure at any step along the way can result in the end of your project with no way to recoup the costs incurred, buying a piece of somebody else's risk is much safer than risking shit yourself, and thats why derivatives were "invented".

the financial crisis was a firestorm of debts being called in, kicking the legs out from under the already shaky system that government created, and then forced the market into.


plus a lot of dumbasses finally lost the shirts they deserved to lose for decades, untill Boosh and Obama made us buy them a new wardrobe full of armani suits.

the financial crisis was not caused by any one thing, unless you want to go to basic principles, in which case the crises was 100% the result of bad laws and bad investments built on the foundation of the federal reserve debt money system.

You are being ignored. You did not use the word of the day. Try again

 

[NietzscheKeen]

[video=youtube;d0nERTFo-Sk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk[/video]

I'm just going to post a cool video because you guys are now talking about things that I don't understand. The only baccarat I know is the one from my computer card games.

 

[Jimdamick]

Most people cannot afford the bust that goes with Keynesian theory, and hardly anyone can or do save anymore after spending all their money during the boom times. Man should be more frugal, but that seems never to be the case. The problem I see with these two theories is they were developed for nations that existed then, not the global economy we have today, where money is so intertwined that one nations failure has ramifications globally.

 

[NietzscheKeen]

Nationalize. That's my solution.