Mycorrhiza Fungi...why you should get to know them...
- Thread starter Ohsogreen
- Start date
AliCakes
Well-Known Member
While I don't disagree that colonies will thrive/die off to regulate themselves to the appropriate ratios, I am unsure just how quickly the colonies come to an equilibrium. To me, that would depend on too many environmental factors to give any actual estimate.
I don't mention this for people who inoculate soils a few times a grow, but rather, for those who want to use mycos at every watering/feeding. A local friend did not understand this and accidentally killed some beautiful six foot tall trees more than half way through budding recently. When he chopped them down, he finally measured the pH of his soil. The constant myco additions had raised the pH of his soil to over 9.0.
ASMALLVOICE
Well-Known Member
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have read that it is best to stop adding mycor right close to flowering or maybe just a week into, as once a colony has been established say early on in the veg stage, they will have done most of the good they are gonna do by 3 weeks into flower and once the blooming nutes hit, the higher P and K seems to harm or wipe them out or at least they don't like it from what I have read.
Looking for some feedback for sure, cause them little buggers can be expensive, in more ways than one.
Peace and Great Grows
Asmallvoice
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
They're applied to the root zone during transplant. I can't imagine many scenarios where you'd be transplanting during your flowering cycle, so I suppose what you're saying is correct. There would be no good reason to add mycorrhizae fungi after veg.
Organic Toker
Active Member
Nice post 
You should try to get some Trichoderma (doesn't matter which species, Harzianum is better though) for enriching the soil as well as fighting pathogenic bad bad fungi
Beauveria, Verticillium and Metarrhiza can ward off insect pests, spray em on you leaves. The best eco-friendly thing is to put some vermi products (make your own vermicompost) and give your plants much love. These organic dudes will keep it green all the way!
eace:
You should try to get some Trichoderma (doesn't matter which species, Harzianum is better though) for enriching the soil as well as fighting pathogenic bad bad fungi
Beauveria, Verticillium and Metarrhiza can ward off insect pests, spray em on you leaves. The best eco-friendly thing is to put some vermi products (make your own vermicompost) and give your plants much love. These organic dudes will keep it green all the way!
eace:
Organic Toker
Active Member
True indeed, you can reduce the expense by culturing your mycors again into the next soil you are going to grow after you harvest. Am not sure about the blooming nutes though, am still a noob grower. But I know my microbes
Add the mycors when you are transplanting to give your plant the most nutrient absorption till bud development. I have to experiment with the flowering phase (just started growing). I work in a bio-fertilizer company so the perks of my job gave me all the beneficial microbes I need. Also keep a check of your pH as Allcakes said. Tryina help with what I know. Feel free to correct me if am wrong
AliCakes
Well-Known Member
I add mycos at each transplant. That's it. But the friend was running some products from a company called Growers secret. The directions gave amounts to use "when needed" and the guys at the grow shop told him to use it once a week. Through veg his plants grew twice as fast as mine did. And by the time he killed them the trunks were almost as big around as my wrists are. Granted my girlie wrists are smaller than some of yours.
Roots do stop growing vigorously be the 3rd week of flower, but the same thing could happen to your plants if you vegged longer. All I was saying is that too much of a good thing is bad. I also tend to water with a bacteria dominated IMO culture when I add mycos. Mycos are awesome, but what is even better is a soil with highly diversified micro life.
Lucius Vorenus
Well-Known Member
So whats the verdict on whether or not Chemical nutes kill off the Fungi?
chibzilla
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure I made my own Mycorrhiza...
I had an old aquarium tank lined with rocks on the bottom, then filled the top with compost from outside.
Within a week I saw white fungi growing along the sides of the tank, exactly what this mycorrhiza stuff looks like!
I wasn't educated on the subject at all so I actually re potted thinking that the fungi was going to harm my plant, Now looking back I'm so stupid to have not done some research before repotting...
My plant could be double the size it is now... Or it could have been bad fungi but I kind of doubt it...
I had an old aquarium tank lined with rocks on the bottom, then filled the top with compost from outside.
Within a week I saw white fungi growing along the sides of the tank, exactly what this mycorrhiza stuff looks like!
I wasn't educated on the subject at all so I actually re potted thinking that the fungi was going to harm my plant, Now looking back I'm so stupid to have not done some research before repotting...
My plant could be double the size it is now... Or it could have been bad fungi but I kind of doubt it...
OneStonedPony
Well-Known Member
It's cool to see this old thread made into a sticky. When I first started growing organically, it was one of the first ones I read.
True living organics are the only way to grow IMHO.
True living organics are the only way to grow IMHO.
Someacdude
Active Member
Great info, thank you
WeedKillsBrainCells
Well-Known Member
since things naturally multiply under good conditions and i wanna save money can someone post the way of cultivating it? or multiplying it... dont you use bran or something? and i imagine molasses is involved... or treacle, here.
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
Recipes;
Through a plethora of trial and error brewing with a dissolved oxygen meter at hand we determined that a pretty reliable volume of [vermi]compost to use is 2.38% by volume of water used up to around a 250 gallon brewer.
So if you have 5 gallons you multiply that by 2.38% to get the amount of [vermi]compost to use. Then you can go to; http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm and convert it into any unit of measure which is convenient. In my opinion measuring [vermi]compost by weight is inaccurate because of varying moisture content.
Anyway to proceed we have;
5 x 2.38% = 0.119 of a gallon = 0.476 of a quart = 0.450 of a liter
= 450.5 milliliters [450 rounded] = 1.904 cups [2 cups rounded] - Your choice
Likewise with the use of black strap molasses, a percentage of 0.50% is a good median amount to use.
These two ingredients, perhaps surprisingly, comprise the total of inputs in most of our brews these days. This simple recipe, if using an efficient ACT maker and good quality [vermi]compost results in a microbial population made up of the important three groups. This is the only recipe used to date, in all the videos on my Youtube channel ‘Microbe Organics’
To get these three groups the ACT maker should be run for 36 to 42 hours. The ideal temperature range is 65 to 72 Fahrenheit (18 to 22 Celsius), however a little cooler or warmer is okay. I’ve had pretty equivalent results with ambient temperatures around 100 F (38 C) and as cool as 50 F (10 C).
To spill a small secret, I’ve been pre-feeding or pre-activating [vermi]compost which is not so fresh by mixing in a small amount of wheat bran (livestock store or bulk foods department grocery store) and moistening with very diluted black strap molasses, loosely covered with cloth or paper towel 24 hours ahead of brew. (approximate ratios, wheat bran 1:30 [vermi]compost & BSM 1:300 water).
This has, so far resulted in (most of the time) attaining the desired microbial population at 24 hours brew time rather than the usual 36 to 42 hours.
Now for some of my other recipes;
A recipe for a balanced nutrient cycling ACT which many growers claim to have great success with is;
[vermi]compost – 2.38%
unsulphured pure black strap molasses - 0.50% [but you can use a maximum 0.75%]
fish hydrolysate (high quality) - 0.063%
Do not use chemically deodorized liquid fish!
kelp meal - 0.25% max. [Less is more!]
NOTE: This is a maximum amount of kelp and you can experiment using less. This is using regular grade kelp meal for livestock. If you have soluble kelp, I recommend using smaller amounts. As noted earlier kelp meal can initially delay bacterial multiplication and fungal growth in ACT.
soft rock phosphate granules/powder - 0.063% Consider this optional. In the past 2 years I’ve become more aware of the possibility of polonium 210 and lead content in soft rock phosphate which is radioactive. This varies depending on how it was mined and where. If you wish to use this in ACT check all available data. Look for heavy metal testing
We grind up the granules into a powder with a coffee grinder
The brew time should average around 36 hours and no longer than 48 hours. If you have a microscope then stop when the microbes desired are observed. Otherwise smell for the foodstocks being used up, possible rank odor (indicating anaerobes) and a positive earthy or mushroom-like aroma.
Fungal Brew;
If you want a brew which is more fungal increase the amount of fish hydrolysate to around 0.19% and you may wish to decrease the amount of molasses used so there is not a foodstock overload. Include a pinch of alfalfa meal, not using more than 0.25%. It is important to not overload a brew with foodstocks, otherwise you can easily compromise the dissolved oxygen capacity of the unit. Most importantly discontinue brewing around 18 to 20 hours. Of course if you have a microscope you can judge that for yourself.
Also, if you do not have fungi in your [vermi]compost, you won’t have it magically appear in your ACT.
http://microbeorganics.com/
FullOfMekraw
New Member
This is my first post here so hello everyone.. I recently got turned on to Kelp4less.com They have a great myco mix. i got 4 ounces for 20 dollars and it is pure endo/ecto myco+ Trichoderma+ Beneficial bacteria there is something like 38 different species in the mix. No humic or fulvic acid weighing down the mix. So its all pure good shit!
DANKSWAG
Well-Known Member
- I've been reviewing my notes on making my own LAB Lacto Acid Bacillus which is the base for EM1.
Microbes cultivated and used for protecting plants from pathogens and digest nutrients in the soil to enhance growth.
- Cultivaing bacterica
1 cup whole grain rice
2 cups h20 sans chloride
Shake well store in closed container that has equal air space to material volume
let set 3-5 days with top covered with paper towel room temp sans uv rays
with syringe remove 7oz clear serum from infected mixture
Separating bacteria LAB from hood of every bacteria from a-z
Place 7oz bacterial serum into container with 70oz of whole milk raw is possible any well do
Let set one week (7 days) as with the rice water mixture above
Cheese will form on top remove feed to animals or add to compost
remaining is your LAB separated out for use as you see fit. Approximate 1000ml 1 liter
That's freaking easy you now have your very own hard working great for everything BACILLUS
Storage
You can keep in airtight container in fridge up to 3 years, goes dormant in one.
Or add equal parts molasses to stabilize and store for up to 3 years cool room temp.
When adding molasses stir well this now becomes 2 liters or 2000ml stabilized Bacillus
And I am being told this lacks additional needed strains and species compared to the following:
- "You are creating One form of Bacilius bacteria with the LAB.
There are 7 different strains of 4 different species of Bacilius in P3."
http://www.prolificplantprobiotic.com/
Product Claims to have:
- Bacillus Subtilis
- Well known cattle feed ingredient
- Spores are viable for decades; common soil inoculant: frees up nutrients from food sources
- Symbiotic with roots as a colonizer; antagonistic to pathogens
Bacillus Licheniformis
- Found in soil and on bird feathers
- Protease producer (especially breaks down feathers)
- Biological “laundry detergent”
- Adapts well to alkaline areas
Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens
- Source of the BamH1 restrictive enzyme (stifles virus and pathogens)
- Source of Subtilisin, an organic “laundry detergent”
- Causes starch hydrolysis of green plants
- Produces Barnase, an antibiotic protein
Bacillus Pumilis
- Anti-fungal
- Colonizes roots to prevent fungus formation
- Highly stress resistant
All are considered “rhizobacteria” for they breakdown atmospheric nitrogen into a compound easy to uptake by plants.
Summary of P[SUP]3 [/SUP]Prolific Plant Probiotic™
One dose (1 inch of pellets) contains:
- 600+ million CFUs of Bacillus microbes
- Micronutrient spectrum package usually depleted from soil
- Amino acids spectrum package critical for plant life
- Delivered on a carrier of plant roughage
- Contains seven strains from the above mentioned four Bacillus species
Is there anyway to add these different missing strains, if needed and really missing? Won't I get a better healthier spectrum of beneficial bacteria by using this homemade LAB in composting which will introduce other strains of bacteria in which LAB will help influence the growth of other beneficial bacteria that could ultimately provide a soil web that would not need to have a product like P3 added?
- Cultivaing bacterica
DANKSWAG
Well-Known Member
I could be wrong, but it appears to be an Myco Apply / EM1 product with a food starter (molasses). You'd be better off just purchasing EM1 as a concentrated serum and then add equal parts molasses when ready to active and utilize in a tea or other applications. You can also make your own EM1 with Rice, H20 -sans chloride, Milk (Two step process for EM1 concentrate) and Molasses which activates it.
DANKSWAG
Well-Known Member
Hey Stowngrow,
Was hoping to see you weigh in on this, however I believe Rrog addressed for me on another thread.
I can't wait to fully incorporate that is employ as many microbeasties I can to work for me, no money but all the food they can eat and a place to hang out and crash.
I will be share to post results!
Was hoping to see you weigh in on this, however I believe Rrog addressed for me on another thread.
I can't wait to fully incorporate that is employ as many microbeasties I can to work for me, no money but all the food they can eat and a place to hang out and crash.
I will be share to post results!