Adding trace minerals to happy frog

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cookieman275

Member
First off if your just gonna comment some waste of time statement like "this post is probably answered else where" keep it to your damn self and don't reply anyways for the time my plants are in veg I'm going to be using happy frog and then fox farm they should hold the plant til I transplant to a bigger pot but i want to add a mixture of dolomite lime, gypsum and azomite dust the only real question I have is if the lime and gypsum will fuck with the ph too much or if they will even each other out to a happy medium? Gypsum contains sulfur which lime does not which is why I was wondering
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
cookieman275 said:
First off if your just gonna comment some waste of time statement like "this post is probably answered else where" keep it to your damn self and don't reply anyways for the time my plants are in veg I'm going to be using happy frog and then fox farm they should hold the plant til I transplant to a bigger pot but i want to add a mixture of dolomite lime, gypsum and azomite dust the only real question I have is if the lime and gypsum will fuck with the ph too much or if they will even each other out to a happy medium? Gypsum contains sulfur which lime does not which is why I was wondering
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Happy frog (and any bagged potting soil usually) will already add lime to bring the pH to ideal levels. So I would skip the lime. I would add the gypsum and azomite though. Won't fuck with your pH.
 
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Wetdog

Well-Known Member
Have zero experience with any bagged soils since I've always made from scratch, but lime is the second ingredient after the peat moss. It is pretty much a must have in any peat based mix as the FF mixes are. Don't know if any is added to HF, but observations from users of FFOF where lime is added is, not enough is added and is depleted before the run is finished and pH problems happen.

It's kinda hard to over apply lime, but you can damn sure under apply it. Lime is always part of my mix, as is Azomite. Gypsum is sometimes added to the mix, but mostly added as a top dress later in the grow for the Ca and sulfur.

Kelp meal is also a great source of trace minerals FYI.

Lime doesn't 'fuck' with the pH, but keeps it buffered in a range that the plants can utilize. Not using it just causes problems down the road.

Wet
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Wetdog said:
Have zero experience with any bagged soils since I've always made from scratch, but lime is the second ingredient after the peat moss. It is pretty much a must have in any peat based mix as the FF mixes are. Don't know if any is added to HF, but observations from users of FFOF where lime is added is, not enough is added and is depleted before the run is finished and pH problems happen.

It's kinda hard to over apply lime, but you can damn sure under apply it. Lime is always part of my mix, as is Azomite. Gypsum is sometimes added to the mix, but mostly added as a top dress later in the grow for the Ca and sulfur.

Kelp meal is also a great source of trace minerals FYI.

Lime doesn't 'fuck' with the pH, but keeps it buffered in a range that the plants can utilize. Not using it just causes problems down the road.

Wet
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I would recommend adding gypsum earlier than later as its sulfer and calcium content is not readily available, epsom salts are great for more instant release sulfer.

And I'm not a big fan of lime for pH, I have overdone it lol. Gypsum, oyster shell flour, and crab shell meal all aid in pH buffering. And I've never had any overdoing it issues with them.

All that aside I wouldn't expect any pH buffering to be necessary in a pre bagged soil.
 
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Wetdog

Well-Known Member
Well, I disagree a bit, as gypsum has little to no effect on pH, being Ca sulfate rather than Ca carbonate like dolo, calcitic lime, or the equal, oyster shell flour. No experience with crab shell.

The gypsum usually gets added mid grow to tomatoes and peppers as they really seem to chew up the Ca. I did just mix up 6cf for garlic planting next month and gypsum was added in the initial mix. The sulfur really gives it a kick and I like it in there from the beginning.

Have you ever tried dolo again after 'overdoing' it? I have a feeling it was something else and the dolo got blamed. Like you, I have also overdone all of them with no issues from any. Mostly doubling the input by mistake. Did get a white crust on the bottom of the pots though. LOL

With the FFOF, it seems the lime charge would give out about 6 weeks or so as reported to me, but again, no experience on my part.

Wet
 
Rhizosphere

Rhizosphere

Well-Known Member
look in to a product called sea 90 good shit OMRI listed and its hard to apply to much

and happy frog is strong made to be mixed in to low nutrient soils i wouldn't add anything man un less its that happy frog in to some pro mix or something like that.
 
MeJuana

MeJuana

Well-Known Member
There's so much misinformation. I can find several links saying Gypsum is a pH buffer but when I dig into it and look on university websites it is explained more clearly.

(Same basic sentence on a couple .edu sites I found so far)
http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/38531/em9057.pdf
Calcium alone does not increase soil pH. For
example, gypsum (calcium sulfate) and other addi-
tives contain Ca but do not contain a basic anion
(carbonate, hydroxide, oxide, or silicate). Therefore,
they do not neutralize soil acidity.
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Wetdog said:
Well, I disagree a bit, as gypsum has little to no effect on pH, being Ca sulfate rather than Ca carbonate like dolo, calcitic lime, or the equal, oyster shell flour. No experience with crab shell.

The gypsum usually gets added mid grow to tomatoes and peppers as they really seem to chew up the Ca. I did just mix up 6cf for garlic planting next month and gypsum was added in the initial mix. The sulfur really gives it a kick and I like it in there from the beginning.

Have you ever tried dolo again after 'overdoing' it? I have a feeling it was something else and the dolo got blamed. Like you, I have also overdone all of them with no issues from any. Mostly doubling the input by mistake. Did get a white crust on the bottom of the pots though. LOL

With the FFOF, it seems the lime charge would give out about 6 weeks or so as reported to me, but again, no experience on my part.

Wet
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Word on the gypsum I was remembering some reading wrong. Gypsum helps a soil maintain its current pH, it does not raise it the way lime or oyster shell flour do. I know crab shell meal is a pH buffer...but I am unsure if it raises or just maintains like gypsum.

Yeah I've tried dolo since with better results. I would only apply it to a virgin mix though when I first mix the peat moss/perlite/compost. I don't reapply any through the plants life cycle. The only thing I'll ever reapply is a top dressing of worm castings, kelp, sometimes neem meal. When I recycle my soil and reamend it I don't add anymore. Lots of oyster shell flour and crab shell meal though.

When I make up fresh soil mix for myself or someone else now I don't mess with lime anymore. Oyster shell flour, crab shell meal gives me more calcium uptake and less need for additional magnesium.
 
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Wetdog

Well-Known Member
I only wish OSF and crab meal were available locally, but the calcitic lime is pretty much the same as OSF. Both are 90%+ pure calcium carbonate and good stuff. Nothing local at all to sub for the crab meal. Bummer!

Now, I'm just using dolo in virgin mixes also and Ag lime for everything else, like re amends and the worm bin bedding. The Mg in the dolo seems to last way longer than the Ca portion, so it only gets used once, then, just the straight Ca. Pretty much the same top dressing routine/ingredients as you. Many paths to the same destination.

Wet
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
MeJuana said:
There's so much misinformation. I can find several links saying Gypsum is a pH buffer but when I dig into it and look on university websites it is explained more clearly.

(Same basic sentence on a couple .edu sites I found so far)
http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/38531/em9057.pdf
Calcium alone does not increase soil pH. For
example, gypsum (calcium sulfate) and other addi-
tives contain Ca but do not contain a basic anion
(carbonate, hydroxide, oxide, or silicate). Therefore,
they do not neutralize soil acidity.
Click to expand...
yes, basicly gypsum isn't anything spectacular, in a good organic mix it's virtually superfluous.
assuming the soil wasn't used for a chemical chelated grow, which then the gypsums ability to neutralize sodium would be beneficial, but past that it doesn't do much
doesn't do anything for ph really.
I don't use it because my soil is loaded with other calcium inputs, crab meal, shrimp meal, and TONS of comfrey as well..
oyster flour, oyster shells, insect meal, etc, etc
here is a good read on gypsum

http://www.gardeningknowhow.com/garden-how-to/soil-fertilizers/using-gypsum-in-garden.htm
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Wetdog said:
I only wish OSF and crab meal were available locally, but the calcitic lime is pretty much the same as OSF. Both are 90%+ pure calcium carbonate and good stuff. Nothing local at all to sub for the crab meal. Bummer!

Now, I'm just using dolo in virgin mixes also and Ag lime for everything else, like re amends and the worm bin bedding. The Mg in the dolo seems to last way longer than the Ca portion, so it only gets used once, then, just the straight Ca. Pretty much the same top dressing routine/ingredients as you. Many paths to the same destination.

Wet
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do you use the lime for the calcium and mag, or simply to control the peats ph?
I thought you used leaf mold or a compost base rather than a peat base?
reason I ask is the comfrey that we both love is gonna have allllll the cal/mag you can want
 
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Wetdog

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
do you use the lime for the calcium and mag, or simply to control the peats ph?
I thought you used leaf mold or a compost base rather than a peat base?
reason I ask is the comfrey that we both love is gonna have allllll the cal/mag you can want
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Naw, the lime is mostly for pH in the peat based mix, along with the pine bark fines. The Ca and Mg are noted, but like you, the comfrey and VC are my main cal/mag sources. Gypsum if even more is needed.

Lime is added in the initial mix and perhaps on the 2nd or 3rd re-amend, but not every time. Sorta keep my pH buffering seperate from everything else.

The leaf mold is my raised beds/compost pile combo. LOL

Wet
 
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