Do you need to add amendments to soil mix with already high quality compost?

hillbill

Well-Known Member
Guess what is everywhere in my wooded back lot under where wet leaves accumulate. Never could spell it but it loves walnut trash and is all white and stringy. And everything is super wet. Put some in my used bins with leaf mold. Seen tomatoes come out of stuff like this with gravel mix. Unreal.

I do like seeing twig pieces and snail shells and sharp gravel showing up in my recycled mix. I also treat used mix as half amended and I also eliminate most minerals like green sand and add fine limestone at 1 tbs per gallon. It does seem that the light mix is shortest on N at the end of cycle. It also seems that the more the mix is recycled, the more forgiving it is. More and more I just plant in cups of used mix.
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Sweet deal I appreciate the info greasemonkey, I actually got the idea of adding amendments to the compost from your thread.

I've already made 2 batches of soil for this year, both coots mix but different compost. First batch is 12 cf, made with makeorganicsoil.com's worm castings and fungal compost...very high quality plus they're only a state away from me so shipping wasn't bad at all.
Next batch of soil is 6 cf and made with coast of maines lobster compost, I live in new england so its pretty close and only cost me about $6.50 a cf..appears to be good quality.

All in all I still spent a lot on compost, so why pay when I can just make?

I literally have all the materials laying around my yard lol so anyways I'm gonna throw the compost pile on a tarp and cover it, how often would you recommend turning it? Would it affect the microbes at all if i let it sit outside all winter? It gets very cold here so the pile will definitely freeze over, will they just go dormant? Would it help at all to bag it up before it freezes and throw it in my basement assuming its done composting?
didn't see this response my man, sorry for the late reply.
now i feel a lil dumb for linking the compost thread to ya..
the amount of turning of the compost is actually what influences the overall types of microbes, a "colder" compost (one that isn't made to facilitate the thermo portion of the compost) or one with higher carbon to nitrogen ratios typically lean more towards the fungal microbes, where as a faster more balanced carbon to nitrogen ratio will make a more bacterial pile
the inputs into the pile also influence that as well, with any pile that has wood products in it, like good chips, sawdust, and the like those are typically more fungal.
either way a mature/finished compost will have a variety of both types of microbes not exclusively either.
as far as the temps, i live in California on the coast, so i don't get the freezing temps, but judging on what I've researched the cold won't stop the process, but it dramatically slows it down for sure.
remember though, even in frozen ground there are countless microbes present.
microbes don't disappear, just different types flourish in different circumstances
it's hard for me to answer on how often you turn it though, i did mine weekly for the first month, then only three times after that.
the more you turn the more it encourages thermophilic microbes and conditions, and the faster its completed as well.
a good rule is the slower a compost goes, the more fungal, the quicker, the more bacterial.
but balancing and layering it correctly is crucial to minimize nitrogen losses as well as anaerobic conditions.
shredding leaves also accelerates the process too, but tend to be thicker, so it can need more turning to prevent anaerobic conditions
speaking of, that's crucial as well, anaerobic microbes are, for the most part, NOT desired at all.
 

dubekoms

Well-Known Member
didn't see this response my man, sorry for the late reply.
now i feel a lil dumb for linking the compost thread to ya..
the amount of turning of the compost is actually what influences the overall types of microbes, a "colder" compost (one that isn't made to facilitate the thermo portion of the compost) or one with higher carbon to nitrogen ratios typically lean more towards the fungal microbes, where as a faster more balanced carbon to nitrogen ratio will make a more bacterial pile
the inputs into the pile also influence that as well, with any pile that has wood products in it, like good chips, sawdust, and the like those are typically more fungal.
either way a mature/finished compost will have a variety of both types of microbes not exclusively either.
as far as the temps, i live in California on the coast, so i don't get the freezing temps, but judging on what I've researched the cold won't stop the process, but it dramatically slows it down for sure.
remember though, even in frozen ground there are countless microbes present.
microbes don't disappear, just different types flourish in different circumstances
it's hard for me to answer on how often you turn it though, i did mine weekly for the first month, then only three times after that.
the more you turn the more it encourages thermophilic microbes and conditions, and the faster its completed as well.
a good rule is the slower a compost goes, the more fungal, the quicker, the more bacterial.
but balancing and layering it correctly is crucial to minimize nitrogen losses as well as anaerobic conditions.
shredding leaves also accelerates the process too, but tend to be thicker, so it can need more turning to prevent anaerobic conditions
speaking of, that's crucial as well, anaerobic microbes are, for the most part, NOT desired at all.
Haha no problem man, I think your idea of different composts for different cycles is a great idea...I might have to steal it! Thanks again for the info though I've learned a lot. Now I just gotta rake up and shred 2 cubic yards of dead leaves before it rains, ugh wish me luck
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Haha no problem man, I think your idea of different composts for different cycles is a great idea...I might have to steal it! Thanks again for the info though I've learned a lot. Now I just gotta rake up and shred 2 cubic yards of dead leaves before it rains, ugh wish me luck
actually you know what, i really like collecting leaves AFTER it rains man, the rain perfectly moistens all the leaves, and that actually helps with layering and such because then the nitrogen input will stick to the leaves better.
you gotta moisten them anyways, and it's a lil easier than having to stop after each layer to mist them down.
if you are shy on nitrogen inputs my favorites are cannabis leaves, alfalfa meal, fish meal and grass clippings
in that order.
the other cool thing about collecting damp leaves is that if you bag them to take them home, and lets say that maybe you have a bongrip of some potent indica, pass out asleep, and lets say that maaaaybe you wake up the next day, to californias biggest rain storm in yrs,, and maaaaybe you left alllll those leaves bagged up, just chillin there for the two weeks, well, the cool thing with that is that moist leaves tend to get all sorts of fungal growth in there when that happens..
a nice kickstart to the composting procedure..
discovered that on accident...
 
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dubekoms

Well-Known Member
actually you know what, i really like collecting leaves AFTER it rains man, the rain perfectly moistens all the leaves, and that actually helps with layering and such because then the nitrogen input will stick to the leaves better.
you gotta moisten them anyways, and it's a lil easier than having to stop after each layer to mist them down.
if you are shy on nitrogen inputs my favorites are cannabis leaves, alfalfa meal, fish meal and grass clippings
in that order.
the other cool thing about collecting damp leaves is that if you bag them to take them home, and lets say that maybe you have a bongrip of some potent indica, pass out asleep, and lets say that maaaaybe you wake up the next day, to californias biggest rain storm in yrs,, and maaaaybe you left alllll those leaves bagged up, just chillin there for the two weeks, well, the cool thing with that is that moist leaves tend to get all sorts of fungal growth in there when that happens..
a nice kickstart to the composting procedure..
discovered that on accident...
Ya its been raining here the past couple weeks so everything is nice and soaked. Its actually turning out to be pretty damn nice today 80 with some clouds.

That's a good idea with the leaves, I was thinking I could gather a bunch up for leaf mold. Get them nice and chopped up, make some kind of fungal inoculant and throw it all in trash bags for a couple years maybe poke some holes and turn the bags once in awhile. I wonder how well that would stack up to peat moss.
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Ya its been raining here the past couple weeks so everything is nice and soaked. Its actually turning out to be pretty damn nice today 80 with some clouds.

That's a good idea with the leaves, I was thinking I could gather a bunch up for leaf mold. Get them nice and chopped up, make some kind of fungal inoculant and throw it all in trash bags for a couple years maybe poke some holes and turn the bags once in awhile. I wonder how well that would stack up to peat moss.
it'd shit alllll over peat moss man.
and if you are looking for a pure leaf mold (be patient for one, it takes TIME)
but i'd not shred the leaves if that's your goal, shredding the leaves typically steers the pile more bacterial.
you want sloooow degradation of JUST leaves.
for the record I waited like, hmm I forget exactly how long, but it was over a yr, and when I popped open those bags of leaves they damn near looked the same as when I bagged them... sooooo I added alfalfa meal to them and tossed them in my compost, and they melted in like a month.
but pure leaf mold takes a LOOOONG time... I don't even know how long because I ran out of patience
honestly i'm not entirely clear as to the advantage of a leaf mold over a leaf compost, past the microbial differences, I imagine a leaf mold may have higher amounts of carbon in it, but I sure as hell don't have any carbon deficits in my soil mix.
i'm pretty sure that @Wetdog may have more experience on that than I do
also a cool dude on grasscity does as well, I believe his username is jerry something .
like jerry followed by a 5 or 4 digit number can't remember
hey, well actually wetdog may know that too, I think they know each other somewhat.
jerry1965?
something like that.
if you went to the organic section of GC you'd probably see his postings
 

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
Yep, just look for Jerry, I forget the numbers also.

It takes 3 years for the leaf mold to get going good and IIRC, Jerry started his 6 years or longer, ago. He also started off big, having the guys who collect the towns leaf piles dump then on his property. His wife has a horse for a steady supply of manure. Got into comfrey a couple years after starting the leaf piles and everything just exploded.

I 'think' the only extras he uses now, is kelp meal and neem cake and that's it for his mix. I know I'm about 4 years behind him, sorta blowing off the leaf mold till he posted pics of his plants and garden using just leaf mold.

The results were amazing, especially with the simplicity of it all.

The 3 years bit gets glossed over a lot, but leaf mold is mostly fungal driven and really can't be rushed much.

The leaf compost (like when you added the alfalfa), is a bit faster, but still slow and as you noted, more bacterially driven.

Whichever method, if you can still recognize leaves in it, it's not done.
 
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greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Haha no problem man, I think your idea of different composts for different cycles is a great idea...I might have to steal it! Thanks again for the info though I've learned a lot. Now I just gotta rake up and shred 2 cubic yards of dead leaves before it rains, ugh wish me luck
actually you know what, i really like collecting leaves AFTER it rains man, the rain perfectly moistens all the leaves, and that actually helps with layering and such because then the nitrogen input will stick to the leaves better.
you gotta moisten them anyways, and it's a lil easier than having to stop after each layer to mist them down.
if you are shy on nitrogen inputs my favorites are cannabis leaves, alfalfa meal, fish meal, and grass clippings
in that order
 

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
Moist is good.

My favorite pine bark mulch at Lowes comes from Muscle Shoals, Ala, and whatever they do, some of the bags are nearly white with the mycellium growing on the mulch. IDK if it's the way it's harvested, stored, or bagged up, but no other brand I've seen has that amount of mycellium. I'm sure it has never been allowed to totally dry out.
 

dubekoms

Well-Known Member
Yup so I looked up jerry and looks like he basically makes his compost with mostly leaves and horse manure, said it takes at least a few years to breakdown and be perfect. Then he just mixes that with buckwheat hulls and done.

Love the simplicity of it all but definitely not waiting more then a year for compost. I might do a pile of this anyways, along with the other ones. I don't have access to horse manure so I'll use rabbit and kelp, maybe alfalfa.
 

hillbill

Well-Known Member
Hickory and oak leaves before they loose their shine are very durable. Maple and others are softer and faster to compost. I am about 90% oak and pecan and hickories.
 
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