soil aeration questions

conversation/question
when recycling soil

how does one determine if there soil is compact/tight or lose

how does someone new to soil building determine these factors and what does one do to amend the soil ideally ?
what else impacts soil compaction (for example dolomite lime vs oyster shell or aloe or yucca or dish soap)

aeration;
perlite
rice husk
pine bark

water retention
biochar
vermiculite
sand

examples of how much to use per cubic ft and some description or rule to determine soil build/amendment needs?

if you dump a gallon of water into the soil ideally how quickly should the water leach

example pertaining to indoor #20 pot ROLS

http://scnla.com/Potting_Mix_Choices.PDF

I found this in my searches

it was a good read

Wet a handful of soil and clump it in your fist. If that clump still breaks apart well, good. If not, compacted or poorly structured. If your plants get an overwatered look just from a normal watering, likely compacted.

You can send a soil sample to a lab and note that you want to get to loam from where you are at. They can give you specific amendment recipies. But depending on what you're starting with, it can be a slow process. I had soil that was too high in clay content and could only add so much gypsum per season to improve it. Took several years to get it where I wanted it. So, far easier to start with something that is what you want.

I would think there is some math on water retention capacity but I don't know it. Thanks for the cool link!

ya that was a good link from the university of NC

I tried to copy and paste it but it wouldn't allow me to do so

im4satori said:

ya that was a good link from the university of NC

I tried to copy and paste it but it wouldn't allow me to do so

Click to expand...

Great link. I especially like the section on pine bark. Since ffof has bark, not sure if it is pine. I have been looking for info on bark to see what positive and negative affects it has. Many dis ffof because it has bark. I'd like to think if mixed in the right proportions there might be benefits.

Buba Blend said:

Great link. I especially like the section on pine bark. Since ffof has bark, not sure if it is pine. I have been looking for info on bark to see what positive and negative affects it has. Many dis ffof because it has bark. I'd like to think if mixed in the right proportions there might be benefits.

Click to expand...

its kinda funny you mention FFOF

I grew a run in FFOF and another in 1/3 peat,perlite.compost

it wasn't side by side but it was back to back using the same cuttings

the ffof ran out of food quicker and required more teas but it also performed better

the main difference I could see was the texture difference in the soil, the coats build was more compacted and didn't drain as well

I also then noticed how the happyfrog soil has a good amount of pine bark to feed the mycos

@Wetdog was helpful, cuz when I asked about it, he was the first to note the pine bark was the difference

on a side note;
recently I added 1/2 gallon of pine bark to recycle about 1 cubic ft of the once used coats mix, I may add another 1/2 gallon next time I recycle it

anyway it has an affect on ph so if you add it plan for lime and a cook to get the ph buffered, or only add it in small amounts over time so it don't pull your ph down to much all at once

im not sure if this makes any sense or if its a proper gauge, im coming from hydro and have little soil experience so i really don't recommend anyone follows my habits

but for conversation

what I noticed

i tend to dump 1 gallon of water from a 1 gallon water pitcher into a #20 pot and i dump it quickly....

i know it would be better to water it slow but i don't, i just dump it

anyway adding that volume that fast creates a pool of water at the top of the pot... i then watch how quickly or how long it takes for the 1 gallon to perk and i check to see if it wet the soil somewhat evenly throughout

the coats mix drains noticeable slower

You are looking for a recipe to quickly prepare soil. None exists.
It takes time for bacteria, fungi and the like to set up shop.
Best thing you could do for soft fluffy soil is to cover it with mulch for as long as you can and make sure it has enough calcium as well as somewhere to drain to.
Jus digging over soil helps nothing, it destroys the aggregate and basically becomes a nice dense mud cake at the first watering.

ANC said:

You are looking for a recipe to quickly prepare soil. None exists.
It takes time for bacteria, fungi and the like to set up shop.
Best thing you could do for soft fluffy soil is to cover it with mulch for as long as you can and make sure it has enough calcium as well as somewhere to drain to.
Jus digging over soil helps nothing, it destroys the aggregate and basically becomes a nice dense mud cake at the first watering.

Click to expand...

nope
not looking for a recipe to quickly prepare soil

looking at building a quality soil that improves each time i recycle it and comparing my 2 separate soil experiences

but happy to talk about gypsum/oyster shell/calcium and its relationship on soil aeration/compaction/loosening

im4satori said:

conversation/question
when recycling soil

how does one determine if there soil is compact/tight or lose

how does someone new to soil building determine these factors and what does one do to amend the soil ideally ?
what else impacts soil compaction (for example dolomite lime vs oyster shell or aloe or yucca or dish soap)

aeration;
perlite
rice husk
pine bark

water retention
biochar
vermiculite
sand

examples of how much to use per cubic ft and some description or rule to determine soil build/amendment needs?

if you dump a gallon of water into the soil ideally how quickly should the water leach

Click to expand...

I mix Both perlite and rice hulls at 40% of the volume of the mix.

So it's like;
50% Peat
40% aeration
10% compost/worm castings

I don't use pine bark as i simply have enough aeration. Pine bark is going to take Nitrogen from your soil to break down as well..

Rice hulls are awesome, their ash is generally 65-70% Silica and will impart a good amount into your soil over time.

The only item I would suggest for water retention would be Bio-char.. It's good stuff but imho is only needed in sandy low CEC soils that have a hard time holding on to nutrients as it helps build their fertility over time. Use at 5-10% of volume of mix.
..

Take a handful of your soil and squeeze it, it should clump and you should have a drop or two of water come out of it. If this is the case it's properly moistened.

I'm going to disagree a bit with MR. Wood chips will suck N from your soil, bark, not so much as to notice. The cellulose of wood needs the N for bacteria and fungal to break it down. Bark contains much less, if any, of heartwood type cellulose. It is also way longer to break down than rice hulls (a couple of years vs a few months for the hulls). I don't use hulls at all.

Still, our base mixes are very similar, mine being:
Peat moss--40%
Perlite--40%
Pine bark mulch--heavy 10%
Fresh VC--light 10%

I used graded charcoal for years as orchid medium and never noticed much in the way of water retention. It is great for aeration and I'll add the shake from the charcoal bag after smoking meat, as it becomes available.

This just seems to keep the mix lighter and well draining with the heavy seed meals we tend to use along with too much compost that makes for a too dense mix.

I just recycled the soil

at the moment the ph has dropped much lower than I expected and I may need to go back and lime it again

when I recycled my soil I had this mix in mind

30% perlite
30% peat
20%compost
5% pine bark
15% biochar

the pine bark bag also says it has some compost mixed in with the pine bark so the compost/pinebark % are +/-

it appears im a little heavy handed on the biochar

I also added 1 cup gypsum per 1.25 cubic ft of soil

im not really sure I can even say the mix resembles those % amounts with honesty

I started with 1/3 compost and used it for 1 grow so when I recycled it I added zero compost and added some peat and perlite to cut the ratios...but in my mind that was the mix I was going for

next time I amnd it I might add another 5% pine bark

MistaRasta said:

I mix Both perlite and rice hulls at 40% of the volume of the mix.

So it's like;
50% Peat
40% aeration
10% compost/worm castings

I don't use pine bark as i simply have enough aeration. Pine bark is going to take Nitrogen from your soil to break down as well..

Rice hulls are awesome, their ash is generally 65-70% Silica and will impart a good amount into your soil over time.

The only item I would suggest for water retention would be Bio-char.. It's good stuff but imho is only needed in sandy low CEC soils that have a hard time holding on to nutrients as it helps build their fertility over time. Use at 5-10% of volume of mix.
..

Take a handful of your soil and squeeze it, it should clump and you should have a drop or two of water come out of it. If this is the case it's properly moistened.

Click to expand...

I wet the soil while it cooks

I wet it 24hours ago its still noce and damp

when I pick it up and squeeze it it clumps barely and no water squeezing out and it falls apart quick

it stall has a nice dark color

its noticeable loser than last run so im happy

MistaRasta said:

I mix Both perlite and rice hulls at 40% of the volume of the mix.

So it's like;
50% Peat
40% aeration
10% compost/worm castings

I don't use pine bark as i simply have enough aeration. Pine bark is going to take Nitrogen from your soil to break down as well..

Rice hulls are awesome, their ash is generally 65-70% Silica and will impart a good amount into your soil over time.

The only item I would suggest for water retention would be Bio-char.. It's good stuff but imho is only needed in sandy low CEC soils that have a hard time holding on to nutrients as it helps build their fertility over time. Use at 5-10% of volume of mix.
..

Take a handful of your soil and squeeze it, it should clump and you should have a drop or two of water come out of it. If this is the case it's properly moistened.

Click to expand...

I wet the soil while it cooks

I wet it 24hours ago its still noce and damp

when I pick it up and squeeze it it clumps barely and no water squeezing out and it falls apart quick

it stall has a nice dark color

its noticeable loser than last run so im happy

Sand is not a water retainer at all. Sand is drainage. Seems like that mix will be very heavy in weight. I now use perlite and 8822 from NAPA and creek sharp gravel mixed with peat or peat based mix and I use 50% plus drainage when all is said and done. Works well. Drainage for Cannabis is vital and too much is far better than too little.

I go 25% soil, 25% large chunk perlite, 25% coir, and 25% castings as a base, then add measured amendments. Very difficult to produce an "overwatered" look with this mix.

hillbill said:

Sand is not a water retainer at all. Sand is drainage. Seems like that mix will be very heavy in weight. I now use perlite and 8822 from NAPA and creek sharp gravel mixed with peat or peat based mix and I use 50% plus drainage when all is said and done. Works well. Drainage for Cannabis is vital and too much is far better than too little.

Click to expand...

my mistake
I listed the sand under retention not aeration/drainage

when you say heavy, why does it sound heavy? are you referring to the original coats mix or the recycling I did to try and get more aeration?