Kurdish MPs say yes to independence referendum

MMJ Dreaming 99

Well-Known Member
Dude, those videos are completely unreliable as sources. Don't contaminate yourself with that shit and then pass it on to us.

As far as some "greater plan", mankind has always been plagued by ideologues led by sociopaths who have a grand vision and plan based upon a foundation of human blood and bones. Virtually all of them ended in misery for all. Very few ended with the people supporting the sociopath's followers alive, much less better off.

Putin is using the situation for his own gain. The US put itself into this situation when it invaded Iraq and left the job in Afghanistan before it barely had begun work on it. We created a political vacuum in an important part of the world where the US is already seen as the enemy due to its support of Israel and gave the people living there a target for hatred when our troops occupied the country. The insurgency of Daesh is about sociopaths wanting power and people so desperate that they are willing to follow them. That's the nut of the whole crisis.
Who backed Daesh? Here is a hint - it wasn't Syria, Russia, Iran or Hezbollah.

Afghanistan is about opium like Vietnam and also about a pipeline aka Chevron - Condi Rice was on the board of Chevron. The NeoCons Bushes, Clinton and Obama are 100% for endless 17 years in Afghanistan for NOTHING and Trump has been sucked in it too. Another surge.

PS: Hillary voted for war in Iraq too.
 

MMJ Dreaming 99

Well-Known Member

The Iraqi Kurdish parliament has voted to back an independence referendum
in the face of opposition from across the globe.


The Kurdistan Regional Government, sitting for the first time in two years, backed the 25 September vote on Friday.

Iraq's central government rejected the referendum as unconstitutional on Tuesday.

Iran, Turkey and the US also object to the vote, fearing further instability.

The White House issued a statement hours after the vote, asking the Kurdistan Regional Government

to call off the referendum and "enter into serious and sustained dialogue with Baghdad".

The statement warned the independence vote could "distract from efforts to defeat"

the Islamic State militant group (IS).

But there was a feeling of jubilation amongst those who back the referendum.

"We've been waiting more than 100 years for this," Omed Khoshnaw,

of the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDR), told news agency Reuters.

Of the 111 MPs who sit in the regional parliament, 65 voted to go ahead with the plan.


However, more than 40 did not attend the sitting, according to local media

. A number of opposition MPs had said they were planning to abstain.

Iraq's government has also authorised the prime minister to "take all measures" to preserve national unity.

Meanwhile, neighbouring Iran and Turkey - which both have Kurdish populations -

fear a Yes vote will bolster separatism movements in their countries.

The US had suggested unspecified "alternatives" to the referendum ahead of Friday's meeting.

The unanimous parliamentary decision to hold the referendum on independence has been met with

wide celebrations in the Kurdish capital of Irbil. People took to the streets raising the Kurdish flags

and chanting patriotic songs.

Some of them told me they feel proud because their long overdue dream of independence is finally

coming true. They believe the parliamentary move legitimises the referendum, which is seen by

the central government in Baghdad as unconstitutional.

International, as well as regional, powers like Turkey and Iran have also been very critical of the

upcoming voting process, warning of serious repercussions. Both countries have relatively large Kurdish

communities and they are afraid of the domino effect that such a referendum could have.

Even among Iraqi Kurds there are divisions. The Change Movement, the main opposition party,

has boycotted the parliament session, saying it believes in independence but rejects holding the

referendum at this stage.

Kurdish leader Massud Barzani said he would give a rapid response to the ideas, but appeared to have

dismissed them when asked earlier on Friday, before the vote went ahead.

"We still haven't heard a proposal that can be an alternative to the Kurdistan referendum," he said.

Mr Barzani's statement was decried by Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan,

who said the decision not to postpone was "very wrong", news agency Reuters reported.


Kurds are the fourth-largest ethnic group in the Middle East, but they have never obtained a permanent nation

state. In Iraq, where they make up an estimated 15% to 20% of the population of 37 million,

Kurds faced decades of brutal repression before acquiring autonomy following the 1991 Gulf War.

For the past three years, Kurds across the region have been engaged in the battle against IS.

Three months ago, top officials and political parties in the Kurdistan Regional Government

agreed to hold an advisory referendum on independence.

Voting will take place in the three provinces that officially make up the region

- Dahuk, Irbil and Sulaimaniya - and "areas of Kurdistan outside the region's administration",

including Kirkuk, Makhmour, Khanaqin and Sinjar.

Kurdish officials have said that an expected Yes vote will not trigger an automatic declaration

of independence, but rather strengthen their hand in lengthy negotiations

on separation with the central government.

(http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41279682)
Barzani is a scumbag like Erdogan. Barzani does not speak for all Kurds and possibly even most Kurds. Typical BBC pedo Jimmy Saville reporting.
 

reddan1981

Well-Known Member
I guessing you rejected formal education.
I can reel off a list of these 'giants' and show you they also rejected formal education. I take what i can from my school days.
We need teachers, but we dont NEED government sponsored education.
The most pertinent of truths is learned through experience/life.

I have done the gauntlet, from childrens institutions, to street, to prison.

Understanding kreb cycles (or any other scientific niche that requires specialist equipment costing millions of pounds) is only relevant if you are in that field, what practical use has it in the street, when you are hungry?

You could NEVER argue its authenticity, or even attempt to quantify it, youd be left with a couple of choices, accept it or reject it.

I think even talking about these sort of things,(unless you have reason for its application obvs) is superficial and akin to parroting, and pretending you could ever verify these things is akin to peacocking (not aimed at you FD)

There are too many peacocks.
 
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SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
I can reel off a list of these 'giants' and show you they also rejected formal education. I take what i can from my school days.
We need teachers, but we dont NEED government sponsored education.
The most pertinent of truths is learned through experience/life.

I have done the gauntlet, from childrens institutions, to street, to prison.

Understanding kreb cycles (or any other scientific niche that requires specialist equipment costing millions of pounds) is only relevant if you are in that field, what practical use has it in the street, when you are hungry?

You could NEVER argue its authenticity, or even attempt to quantify it, youd be left with a couple of choices, accept it or reject it.

I think even talking about these sort of things,(unless you have reason for its application obvs) is superficial and akin to parroting, and pretending you could ever verify these things is akin to peacocking.

There are too many peacocks.
Pounds, lol.

"Blimey mate, I'm cream crackered tonight..."
 

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
Or i could also say. 'Dordy im jellin to woodrus' in my own tongue.

Gypsy.
Visited England for a month a few years ago. I wanted to ask but at the time didnt think it was a good idea...how come all the gypsies I spoke to over there seem to have Irish heritage?
 

reddan1981

Well-Known Member
Visited England for a month a few years ago. I wanted to ask but at the time didnt think it was a good idea...how come all the gypsies I spoke to over there seem to have Irish heritage?
They are irish travellers, talking kant.
Gypsys have a different heritage believed to origionate from India, although through ignorance and as a result of early gypsys not wanting to divulge their place of origin, allowed people to believe they came from Egypt, the vulgar coloqueialism of it being 'gypsy'.

Each country has there own specific type of gypsy.

English, scottish and welsh follow Romany traditions, we use the language Romani.
Irish traveller use a language called kant.

Irish traveller tradition is only about 200 yrs old and is still morphing, most recently adopting americanisation and chasing a materialists ideal.
Romany is rooted in nonmaterialism, with nomadic ideals.

The Romany Gypsy and Irish traveller traditions have married into one another and as a result children share both traditions but materialism generally wins because society places pressure on everyone to conform to these ideals.

A consequence of this is gypsys and travellers have a mixed vocabulary, adopting both orientations, and with their own individual families, a slang adaption of each variation is used secularly between each family line.

It is hard to find the research to back any of this but you can find superficial evidence in the fact that Romini words, have words that also mean the same thing in indian, a few examples being;
Jukkle - dog
Pani- water
Chani or kani- chicken
 
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ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I guessing you rejected formal education.

I had a friend who I met up with after summer break on the first day of second semester organic chemistry lab (3 year undergrad). She talked of all the peyote she had done and her theory that everything can be just figured out. "We shouldn't need teachers." "The truth should be obvious." It wasn't obvious to me. I worked my ass off. She dropped out and I never saw her again.

It's true that everybody is born naked and ignorant. We learn how to dress and later learn from others who worked hard to learn from those who were before us. We stand on the shoulders of giants and some of us extend what is known so that others can learn and extend further. I've never met anybody who could just know the Kreb's cycle. Or simply divine string theory. Learning is hard work. Peyote expands consciousness but it has to be filled through the work of learning. People learn from each other. And learning is hard work. No short cuts.
And learning something truly new is even harder.

One of the biggest obstacles is people saying things like, 'but we don't do it THAT way', or 'that's wrong!'

Innovation can only happen when one is willing to emerge from the comfortable confines of accepted practice and conventional wisdom and try something different.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
They are irish travellers, talking kant.
Gypsys have a different heritage believed to origionate from India, although through ignorance and as a result of early gypsys not wanting to divulge their place of origin, allowed people to believe they came from Egypt, the vulgar coloqueialism of it being 'gypsy'.

Each country has there own specific type of gypsy.

English, scottish and welsh follow Romany traditions, we use the language Romani.
Irish traveller use a language called kant.

Irish traveller tradition is only about 200 yrs old and is still morphing, most recently adopting americanisation and chasing a materialists ideal.
Romany is rooted in nonmaterialism, with nomadic ideals.

The Romany Gypsy and Irish traveller traditions have married into one another and as a result children share both traditions but materialism generally wins because society places pressure on everyone to conform to these ideals.

A consequence of this is gypsys and travellers have a mixed vocabulary, adopting both orientations, and with their own individual families, a slang adaption of each variation is used secularly between each family line.

It is hard to find the research to back any of this but you can find superficial evidence in the fact that Romini words, have words that also mean the same thing in indian, a few examples being;
Jukkle - dog
Pani- water
Chani or kani- chicken
Fascinating stuff!

The velocity of cultural change has always interested me.

The faster a culture can change and adapt to its surroundings, the stronger and more resilient it is.
 

reddan1981

Well-Known Member
Fascinating stuff!

The velocity of cultural change has always interested me.

The faster a culture can change and adapt to its surroundings, the stronger and more resilient it is.
I am inclined to agree, but the faster cultures mix the more likely we are to lose culture also. Resistance to change does serve a perpose, if only to preserve traditions.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I am inclined to agree, but the faster cultures mix the more likely we are to lose culture also. Resistance to change does serve a perpose, if only to preserve traditions.
One could argue that it's part of the adaptation process but I do see your point here.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I can reel off a list of these 'giants' and show you they also rejected formal education. I take what i can from my school days.
We need teachers, but we dont NEED government sponsored education.
The most pertinent of truths is learned through experience/life.

I have done the gauntlet, from childrens institutions, to street, to prison.

Understanding kreb cycles (or any other scientific niche that requires specialist equipment costing millions of pounds) is only relevant if you are in that field, what practical use has it in the street, when you are hungry?

You could NEVER argue its authenticity, or even attempt to quantify it, youd be left with a couple of choices, accept it or reject it.

I think even talking about these sort of things,(unless you have reason for its application obvs) is superficial and akin to parroting, and pretending you could ever verify these things is akin to peacocking (not aimed at you FD)

There are too many peacocks.
I have gotten quite a bit of satisfaction from knowing things that didn't make me materially wealthy. Simply understanding why something happened the way it did, I find deeply satisfying. I never used my biochemistry degree professionally but I'm glad I learned something about myself through learning how the body and the cells in the body work. As an organic gardener, my classes in microbiology and botany give me great satisfaction too. Even if it just yields a perfect tomato. That's enough. That said, I was never going to just figure out the concepts behind organic gardening without reading up and applying what I learned in my garden. Sometimes failing but always learning.

I am grateful that I had the chance at college. I don't think college is for everybody. I think that anybody can learn and benefit from learning more about what they are interested in regardless of their circumstances or the practicality of what they studied. But it takes work to learn. Including religious study. I've met some really deep and interesting people who try to understand their religion and not just memorize it.


@ttystikk is correct in that progress is often delayed when people believe ideas won't work without good reasons. The real problem is that people often accept a convention and end the effort without understanding why. When one really understands why something failed, the solution or alternative often becomes obvious.
 
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vostok

Well-Known Member
Iraqi Kurdistan referendum: High turnout in independence vote

Kurds danced on the streets of Kirkuk, a city also claimed by the central Iraqi government

Large numbers of people have taken part in a landmark vote on independence for Iraq's Kurdistan region,

amid growing opposition both at home and abroad.

Votes are still being counted, with a big "yes" victory expected.

Kurds say it will give them a mandate to negotiate secession, but Iraq's PM denounced it as "unconstitutional".

Neighbours Turkey and Iran, fearing separatist unrest in their own Kurdish minorities,

threatened to close borders and impose sanctions on oil exports.

The referendum passed off peacefully across the three provinces that make up the region,

and turnout was estimated at about 72%, according to the electoral commission.

There were scenes of celebration as the polls closed in the regional capital, Irbil, and in the disputed city of Kirkuk,

where a curfew was imposed on Monday night amid fears of unrest.


"It's a day of celebration today. That's why I've put on our traditional outfit, which I bought for the occasion,

" 33-year-old Diyar Abubakr told the AFP news agency.

There was some opposition to the vote among non-Kurdish populations in disputed areas between the Kurdish

and Iraqi governments. In Kirkuk, the local ethnic Arab and Turkmen communities had called for a boycott


The vote is being closely watched not only in Iraq but elsewhere in the region because its implications

could reshape the Middle East, the BBC's Orla Guerin in Irbil reports.

Turkey and Iran fear the impact this could have on their own Kurdish communities, our correspondent adds.


"We have the tap. The moment we close the tap, then it's done," he was quoted by Reuters news agency as saying.

He also said his country could close completely the sole border crossing with the region.

Traffic there, he said, was currently only being allowed to cross from the Turkish side.

Late on Monday, Iraqi and Turkish officials announced they would hold joint military drills in Turkey in an area bordering the Kurdish region of Iraq.

Iran called the vote "illegal", having banned all flights to and from the Kurdish region a day earlier.

UN Secretary General António Guterres expressed concern about the "potentially destabilising effects" of the vote.

The referendum

  • Kurds are the fourth-largest ethnic group in the Middle East but they have never obtained a permanent nation state
  • In Iraq, where they make up an estimated 15% to 20% of the population of 37 million, Kurds faced decades of repression before acquiring autonomy in 1991
  • Polling took place in the three provinces that make up the region, as well as disputed areas claimed by the Kurds and the government in Baghdad
  • Voting was open to some 5.2 million Kurds and non-Kurds aged 18 registered as resident in Kurdish-controlled areas
Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi warned on Sunday that the referendum "threatens Iraq, peaceful co-existence among Iraqis,

and vowed to "take measures to safeguard the nation's unity and protect all Iraqis". and is a danger to the region",

But Kurdistan Regional President Massoud Barzani has accused the international community of having double standards.

"Asking our people to vote in a peaceful way is not a crime," he said on Sunday.

"If democracy is bad for us, why isn't it bad for everyone else?"

Mr Barzani said the referendum would not draw borders, and that afterwards there could be talks with Baghdad for a year or two.

But he stressed that the "failed partnership" with the "theocratic, sectarian state" of Iraq was over.



(http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41394439)
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Iraqi Kurdistan referendum: High turnout in independence vote

Kurds danced on the streets of Kirkuk, a city also claimed by the central Iraqi government

Large numbers of people have taken part in a landmark vote on independence for Iraq's Kurdistan region,

amid growing opposition both at home and abroad.

Votes are still being counted, with a big "yes" victory expected.

Kurds say it will give them a mandate to negotiate secession, but Iraq's PM denounced it as "unconstitutional".

Neighbours Turkey and Iran, fearing separatist unrest in their own Kurdish minorities,

threatened to close borders and impose sanctions on oil exports.

The referendum passed off peacefully across the three provinces that make up the region,

and turnout was estimated at about 72%, according to the electoral commission.

There were scenes of celebration as the polls closed in the regional capital, Irbil, and in the disputed city of Kirkuk,

where a curfew was imposed on Monday night amid fears of unrest.


"It's a day of celebration today. That's why I've put on our traditional outfit, which I bought for the occasion,

" 33-year-old Diyar Abubakr told the AFP news agency.

There was some opposition to the vote among non-Kurdish populations in disputed areas between the Kurdish

and Iraqi governments. In Kirkuk, the local ethnic Arab and Turkmen communities had called for a boycott


The vote is being closely watched not only in Iraq but elsewhere in the region because its implications

could reshape the Middle East, the BBC's Orla Guerin in Irbil reports.

Turkey and Iran fear the impact this could have on their own Kurdish communities, our correspondent adds.


"We have the tap. The moment we close the tap, then it's done," he was quoted by Reuters news agency as saying.

He also said his country could close completely the sole border crossing with the region.

Traffic there, he said, was currently only being allowed to cross from the Turkish side.

Late on Monday, Iraqi and Turkish officials announced they would hold joint military drills in Turkey in an area bordering the Kurdish region of Iraq.

Iran called the vote "illegal", having banned all flights to and from the Kurdish region a day earlier.

UN Secretary General António Guterres expressed concern about the "potentially destabilising effects" of the vote.

The referendum

  • Kurds are the fourth-largest ethnic group in the Middle East but they have never obtained a permanent nation state
  • In Iraq, where they make up an estimated 15% to 20% of the population of 37 million, Kurds faced decades of repression before acquiring autonomy in 1991
  • Polling took place in the three provinces that make up the region, as well as disputed areas claimed by the Kurds and the government in Baghdad
  • Voting was open to some 5.2 million Kurds and non-Kurds aged 18 registered as resident in Kurdish-controlled areas
Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi warned on Sunday that the referendum "threatens Iraq, peaceful co-existence among Iraqis,

and vowed to "take measures to safeguard the nation's unity and protect all Iraqis". and is a danger to the region",

But Kurdistan Regional President Massoud Barzani has accused the international community of having double standards.

"Asking our people to vote in a peaceful way is not a crime," he said on Sunday.

"If democracy is bad for us, why isn't it bad for everyone else?"

Mr Barzani said the referendum would not draw borders, and that afterwards there could be talks with Baghdad for a year or two.

But he stressed that the "failed partnership" with the "theocratic, sectarian state" of Iraq was over.



(http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41394439)
I wish the Kurdish People the very best of luck! They were strong allies in the fight against ISIS and as the article mentions, they've been denied their own nation in the Middle East for over a century.
 

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
I wish the Kurdish People the very best of luck! They were strong allies in the fight against ISIS and as the article mentions, they've been denied their own nation in the Middle East for over a century.
It is because they were over the line... Just like poor Smokey. It's a world of pain.

 

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
Who backed Daesh? Here is a hint - it wasn't Syria, Russia, Iran or Hezbollah.

Afghanistan is about opium like Vietnam and also about a pipeline aka Chevron - Condi Rice was on the board of Chevron. The NeoCons Bushes, Clinton and Obama are 100% for endless 17 years in Afghanistan for NOTHING and Trump has been sucked in it too. Another surge.

PS: Hillary voted for war in Iraq too.
Why are all of your posts so poorly thought out. Did you finish high school?
 
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