1 month plants - Checkup - Nitrogen Toxicity? - Ppm & Ph Dropping

2 plants, about 1 month age, both in single 5g dwc buckets. 1 300w led lamp for each plant, about 20 inches high. water (well water) temps 70-74, tent temps 74-76 (much cooler at night), seedling strength nutes. I'm adjusting ph to 5.8 every morning.

They've taken off recently and are growing nicely, but I do notice some nute burn on both plants, more so the sativa in the 3 pic and pics after. The first 2 pics are the indica. I'm surprised there is burn at all because I'm still using only seedling strength nutes, and I haven't changed the res in 3 weeks on the sativa, so there has been a lot of fresh water added and the ppm is down below 400, more towards 300. my starting water ppm is around 200.

I notice some slight curling in upper and lower leaves, and because there is nute burn also, i thought maybe there is some nitrogen toxicity. the plants are fairly dark green, nothing too outrageous.

My ph and ppm both are dropping daily, which I'm a bit confused about. The roots look really good, very white, no smells, lots of growth. I understand why the ppm is dropping, especially since I'm adding fresh water every other day, but why is the ph dropping as well? The sativa res seems to stay more stable, dropping only to 5.4 or so everyday. But today and yesterday the indica plant res dropped to 4.8 from 5.8 the day before. That is a pretty big drop, I'm wondering why it's happening like that.

I guess I'm just sort of doing a checkup for the plants. It's my first grow, a few errors so far but otherwise so far successful. Just wondering about these questions above and any other thoughts or comments that may benefit the plants.

Thanks

Edit: The bottom left leaves in the 4th pic are turned down because they are grown against black gardening plastic i'm using to keep the light out of the buckets. They aren't naturally that curled

What are you feeding them and how are you mixing it?

How is your well water quality?

FennarioMike said:

What are you feeding them and how are you mixing it?

How is your well water quality?

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Our well water is good quality overall, as far as i know, it tastes good and we haven't had any issues, though we do need to get the filter replaced. All I know really about the quality is the ppm reading, which is below 200 out of the tap. When I change the res next week, I'm going to use the water directly from the pipes, before it goes the the water softener. Right now it's water softened water.

I'm feeding advanced nutrients basic 3, micro/grow/bloom, feeding once at res change and not again until next change. Adding each individually, not mixing before adding to res. I'm not planning to go crazy with adding different nutes and things, was just going to use this basic kit and then in later grows expand more possibly and try other things. Will likely not be using the ph perfect formula again, since now I realize it doesn't work right without ro water...which I'm not planning on using, as long as i can get away with it.

Yeah it's definitely got some nitrogen toxicity. The top new leaves of the indica plant are all curled down. Should I empty the res and just add plain water for a few days? ....Then in a few days add nutes again? I added half strength veg nutes originally to that res, but the plant responded badly immediately, I guess it was too much, so I doubled the water in the res to "half" the nute strength...so for 2 weeks now it's only been quarter strength seedling strength. yet it's still showing burn and N toxicity. Ppms are very low

Hmm, was just reading online a bit...I'm going to empty both buckets and add plain water for a few days. I'll have a few days to consider how strong to make the nutes when I add them then. I think I'll flip them over to flower in a few days when I add the nutes. The larger plant is about 8 inches, I'd like to keep them a bit smaller for my first grow.

when you say seedling strength do you mean 1 ml per litre? I'd have that size plant on at least 2ml, working up to 3 by now, keep in mind toxicity and deficiencies often look the same. That thing is hungry imo, also are you using all three parts?

dirtWeevil said:

when you say seedling strength do you mean 1 ml per litre? I'd have that size plant on at least 2ml, working up to 3 by now, keep in mind toxicity and deficiencies often look the same. That thing is hungry imo, also are you using all three parts?

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Oh yeah? Hungry? Yup, using all three parts. 1ml per litre. Like I said, I added 2ml per on the indica a few weeks ago, but it seemed too much, the plant wilted all down one night, so I doubled the water to dilute the res and by morning it looked fine. It's been growing crazy ever since. I would think they're hungry too, because they hardly have any nutes in there right now, but why am I seeing nute burn?

my guess is you're misreading the leaves and assuming burn, i start seedlings at 1 ml just after the first serrated leaves form and then step them up to two and three over the next couple weeks. are they from seed? 2ml may have been too much then but now its acclimated. No experience with sativas so there could be a genetic factor im not familiar with, I've always read sativas are less is more as nutes go though

Yeah they're from seed. Do you spot the nute burn in the photos I uploaded? I'm just going by reference on the net, it looks like nute burn, I haven't seen any other deficiencies start by whitening/yellowing of the tips like that. I'm sure you're right though, I mean I know they need to be eating and they barely are because hardly any nutrition is left in there.

Would there be a benefit to flushing with plain water for a few days before changing the res and switching to flower? I'll up it to 2ml per when I switch to flower and see how they handle it. But there definitely looks to be N toxicity and nute burn, so I need to verify that first.

The indica really isn't showing much nute burn, only a few leaves. The sativa shows much more. Maybe it is just a genetic factor, I'm hesitant to up the nutes though

man i can't give you any good advice on sativas i have to defer on that, i might cause you to fuck it up due to my ignorance in that department. I would hold off on increasing that one but give the indica a shot at 2 and play it by ear, for reference this one went to 4 on Thursday, 23 days ago she was a bush the size of a volley ball. It's in a 48qt cooler, 4x4 tent, 600w mh

Here are a few more photos. The 1st is the indica, showing what looks like N toxciity and nute burn. The next two are the sativa, showing what looks like nute burn.

dirtWeevil said:

man i can't give you any good advice on sativas i have to defer on that, i might cause you to fuck it up due to my ignorance in that department. I would hold off on increasing that one but give the indica a shot at 2 and play it by ear, for reference this one went to 4 on Thursday, 23 days ago she was a bush the size of a volley ball. It's in a 48qt cooler, 4x4 tent, 600w mh

View attachment 3986626

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Wow that's some nice fast growth. Yeah mine are still within volleyball size about. The sativa has a bent main stem due to issues with her germinating, so she'd be taller than she actually is, which is only about 6 inches. They're filling out pretty nice though. The height seems to be going slower than expected. They're very full and dense for their size, but they could use more height.

what's the lineage? Is there any ogkb or cookies in the background? I've had a few crosses of those carry burnt tips all the way through, the hell mint from this old thread had the tips burnt nearly the whole time i got a q from her 12/12 from seed

http://rollitup.org/t/mycotek-hell-monkey-hell-mint-th-seeds-akorn.926381/#post-13177371

The sativa is Raspberry Cough from nirvana seeds, the other is

• Aurora Indica from nirvana. it's possible the burnt tips are genetic, but i'm still seeing what looks like nitrogen toxicity on the indica...that, more than the burnt tips, is making me doubt adding more nutes.

go with your gut man, could also just be finicky, some individuals are more sensitive, hopefully you get it worked out soon!

It's just odd, it seems like there is both extremes, too much feeding and under feeding. The yellowing tips could be beginning of nitrogen deficiency, the plant may be hungry, but then there are signs of nitrogen toxicity with the clawing leaves and what could possibly be nute burn. i'm stuck in the middle unsure. I posted on another forum too, hopefully to get more advice. I'd like to feed her more and change the res, but the clawing new leaves leave me thinking no

The fact that the leaves are a dark green, curling, with no yellowing on any other part except the tips makes me think it is nute burn, too much nitrogen. I just don't get how that's possible, given the weak strength nutes I have in there.

Part of it might be the use of softened water. A softener exchanges ca & mg ions for Na ions. So, if you had 100 ppm of ca/mg going in, you'd have 100 ppm of Na going out. It's possible that all that Na and Cl could be causing that. It doesn't look bad though, it seems to be just the tips - but the rest of the plants look good.

Like you mentioned about using the water pre-softener - the benefit would obviously be the ca/mg and probably no need to supplement it, as well as the Na thing...

Is there a sediment filter before the softener - and do you have a way to get it from between these points?

FennarioMike said:

Part of it might be the use of softened water. A softener exchanges ca & mg ions for Na ions. So, if you had 100 ppm of ca/mg going in, you'd have 100 ppm of Na going out. It's possible that all that Na and Cl could be causing that. It doesn't look bad though, it seems to be just the tips - but the rest of the plants look good.

Like you mentioned about using the water pre-softener - the benefit would obviously be the ca/mg and probably no need to supplement it, as well as the Na thing...

Is there a sediment filter before the softener - and do you have a way to get it from between these points?

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Well I'll definitely use the water from the pipes before it hits the softener when i change the res then. There is a sediment filter after the softener, and no there isn't a way to get it between those points. My only option is straight from the well before it hits the softener and filters. That is fine though, right?

So you're not really thinking nute burn then? Might be good for me to change the water with the pre softened well water tomorrow and give another dose of nutes. I'm hesistant to go above 1/4 strength though, in case it is the nutes causing these issues.

It might be just too high of an ionic content with all the sodium - which really still is burn. That might be causing the burn and not the actual nute contribution. That extra sodium might be just pushing it over the top. At least if it's ca and mg ions, the plant wants them.

Definitely catch it before the softener. At least some sort of sediment filtration would be good - but if you can't, you can't.