10,000 Watt 10 Plant 13 Gallon Rdwc [3d Model Incl. Inside Thread]

[CCCmints]

13 gallon buckets. 50 gallon reservoir. 2" water pump pvc connections. 1/2" air pump tube connections. Basing the design off this: https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/12-x-1000-watt-xxl-8x24-scrog.48467/

Preview of Model

Model
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/4d671bdc-e139-4bcb-af18-009b91286aeb/10k-Hydroponics-Setup
For full view install this program then download and open the file with SketchUp.
https://www.sketchup.com/download/sketchup-viewer/windows/thank-you
https://www.sketchup.com/download/sketchup-viewer/mac/thank-you

I've grown a couple of times but never like this. I'm not going to pull the trigger until I'm satisfied I've got everything hammered out. If anyone has any ideas to contribute or see any flaws please discuss here. I haven't chosen a strain or nutrient line yet. I'd like to shoot for around 1.5lbs per plant but I know that will take practice. I've heard people with similar setups going far beyond that, even past the 2s.

Equipment
50 Gal Reservoir
Aura Systems 36,000 BTU Mini-Split Air Conditioner
Ideal-Air Dehumidifier 120 Pint w/ Internal Condensate Pump
Aprilaire 800 Residential Steam Humidifier
2x Jebao Inline Pond Pump 1500gph
Hailea V-30 1800L/Hour Air Pump
Active Aqua Chiller 1HP
Titan Controls Ares 8 CO2 Generator
Can Max Fan Mixed Flow Inline Fan, 10-Inch 1023 CFM

 

[MonkeyPickAss]

How large of a room are we talking here? Like 36x20?

 

[CCCmints]

How large of a room are we talking here? Like 36x20?

30X18 would work.

 

[CCCmints]

What do you guys think about LED? I know HID is the tried and true, but I wonder if technology has gotten to the point where LED is worth using for a grow of this scale. I've read 650 watt LED = 1000 watt HID (depending on a million different factors for the specific LED compared of-course). Anyone have experience in this area?

 

[coreywebster]

What do you guys think about LED? I know HID is the tried and true, but I wonder if technology has gotten to the point where LED is worth using for a grow of this scale. I've read 650 watt LED = 1000 watt HID (depending on a million different factors for the specific LED compared of-course). Anyone have experience in this area?

LED has come very far, but most of the stuff you see in magazines and on sale is junk. To do it right you want super high efficiency but that costs money and for a set up of your size lots of money. So depends on your budget.
For something like you have planned I would say Pacific lighting concepts are a good choice. Although there are other folks who advertise on here that sell good units. A lot of us DIY our LEDs these days for the cost benefit. My 660w is slightly less than a 1000w hps.
If your interested in LED grows then check out greengenesgarden on youtube, he is one of the guys behind PLC. Also check out growmau5 for a good comparison from hps to cob grows. Blurple lights are a thing of the past so don't go looking down that avenue, even the expensive ones like kind and black dog are shite.

Anyhow, that gives you something to look into. Without any BS. I'm not gona try sway your opinion. As you rightly say HPS is tried and tested, I'm happy I made the switch but my set up is not the size of yours.
Good luck with your venture.

 

[MonkeyPickAss]

Something like this... is what I would do. You would need one more driver but they only had 9 in stock so that's whybit shows 9. I am 100% sure you could source heatsinks in bulk for cheaper but this is just to give you an idea. 4500w vs 10000w. You could drive them harder but you will need more drivers and it seems unnecessary to me anyway.

 

[coreywebster]

Yeah for that size order you could get all of it cheaper at kingbrite on Alibaba. I think my heat sinks were 163mm and were $15 a piece, that size order your gona get some good discount. Plus they will fluff the tax for you. Save on duty or whatever you guys pay for importing.
Building your own is a good way to do it but at the same time not every ones cup of tea when your talking a fair size grow.
Tasty LED
Timber grow lights
and Horticultural lighting group would all be worth looking at. As well as the previously mentioned PLC

 

[CCCmints]

I'm willing to spend 5k on LED lighting so long as it is equivalent if not greater to yield with a 1000w of HID. I've got a lot of time to research tough so hopefully I come to the correct choice in the end.

 

[CCCmints]

I used this to copy a build for what I'd consider a cost-effective, high quality equivalent to 1000w HPS: http://timbergrowlights.com/600-watt...4x4-framework/

FV: 34.9v x 1.450a = 50.6 watts per cob x 12 = 607.26 watts
607.26 watts x 56% efficient = 340.0656 PARwatts
340.0656 PARwatts x 90% (10% loss in photons due to walls, reflectors etc.) = 306.05904 PARw
306.05904 PARw x 4.67 (specific QER for that light so urce) = 1429.2957168µmol/s
1429.2957168 µmol/s divided by your space (4x4 per light) in meters = 961.5506909138818 PPFD for led

So about 961 PPFD for a 600w LED and 1158 PPFD for a 1000w HPS. Meaning nearly 20% greater performance with a 1000w HPS compared to a 600w LED. And for the cost...

Around $450 for a 1000w HPS fixture and $950 for a 600w LED fixture.

HPS: $4500
LED: $9500
$1200/year in bulb replacements (2x per year) with HPS. $167/month saved using LED over HPS. Hard to calculate money saved with LED due to lesser cooling demand. Theoretically, it would take around 1.5 years for LED to pay for itself and that's disregarding the basic research I did pointing to 600w LED being inferior to standard 1000w HPS by 20%. It looks like the only option I'd have would be to increase the initial cost of going LED even more by running a 700-800w fixture...At $5k increased costs as is, I'm not sure I'm willing to do that. I may look into LED again in a couple of years when they're cheaper/more advanced and I've earned some money from the HPS. LED is definitely interesting though...

 

[MonkeyPickAss]

I used this to copy a build for what I'd consider a cost-effective, high quality equivalent to 1000w HPS: http://timbergrowlights.com/600-watt...4x4-framework/

FV: 34.9v x 1.450a = 50.6 watts per cob x 12 = 607.26 watts
607.26 watts x 56% efficient = 340.0656 PARwatts
340.0656 PARwatts x 90% (10% loss in photons due to walls, reflectors etc.) = 306.05904 PARw
306.05904 PARw x 4.67 (specific QER for that light so urce) = 1429.2957168µmol/s
1429.2957168 µmol/s divided by your space (4x4 per light) in meters = 961.5506909138818 PPFD for led

So about 961 PPFD for a 600w LED and 1158 PPFD for a 1000w HPS. Meaning nearly 20% greater performance with a 1000w HPS compared to a 600w LED. And for the cost...

Around $450 for a 1000w HPS fixture and $950 for a 600w LED fixture.

HPS: $4500
LED: $9500
$1200/year in bulb replacements (2x per year) with HPS. $167/month saved using LED over HPS. Hard to calculate money saved with LED due to lesser cooling demand. Theoretically, it would take around 1.5 years for LED to pay for itself and that's disregarding the basic research I did pointing to 600w LED being inferior to standard 1000w HPS by 20%. It looks like the only option I'd have would be to increase the initial cost of going LED even more by running a 700-800w fixture...At $5k increased costs as is, I'm not sure I'm willing to do that. I may look into LED again in a couple of years when they're cheaper/more advanced and I've earned some money from the HPS. LED is definitely interesting though...

950 for a 600w fixture??? WAY off..... Just curious, how long do you plan to veg these 10 plants?

 

[CCCmints]

950 for a 600w fixture??? WAY off..... Just curious, how long do you plan to veg these 10 plants?

Why do you say its way off? I plan to veg for 4 weeks but that could change.

(10x)
3/4" x 3/4" x 1/8" Aluminum Angle
4x 48" (4ft) Length
_$77
https://www.metals4uonline.com/aluminum-angle-6061-3_4thsx3_4thsx1_8th

(12x)
LEDIL ANGELINA WIDE REFLECTOR
For CXB3590
_$96
http://www.rapidled.com/ledil-angelina-wide-reflector/

(1x)
100k OHM Linear Taper Rotary Potentiometer
_$4
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008DF9IZC/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=lega08a-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B008DF9IZC&linkId=8d9e07361dd364e87f0e393633c0cc33

(3x)
Mean Well HLG-185H-C1400B Power Supply 200w
_$140
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/hlg-185h-c1400b/mean-well-enterprises

(12x)
Moduled XTRA 9980-B Heat Sink
_$110
https://www.cdiweb.com/ProductDetail/MODULEDXTRA9980B-mechatronix/574061/#.VvEZvzHz8gv

(12x)
CREE CXB3590 3500K LED COB - CD BIN
_$520
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/cxb3590-0000-000n0hcd35g/cree?utm_source=google&utm_campaign=g-shp-us-led_indication&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=PRODUCT+GROUP&gclid=Cj0KCQjwiLDMBRDFARIsACNmiX-iVNGTIgF3G5pLvg5LIKNijht8IBUXZbhLgz8bZcE540WzrSyTPc0aAsfdEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=COb0-9i0ztUCFc6adwodDAIFNg

Total = $950

 

[MonkeyPickAss]

Why would you be using 3590's? A lot of unnecessary money spent there.

 

[greg nr]

Just curious really, but how high are your ceilings?

 

[coreywebster]

Why would you be using 3590's? A lot of unnecessary money spent there.

Give him a chance and maybe a clue. He's only just started looking in to it.

@CobKits What would you do as far as which Cobs for both efficiency and price if you were going to build multiple 600w units?

 

[CobKits]

9x luminus cxm22 @ ~65W on 133mm pinfins

 

[SoOLED]

ive only seen rooms being built, I don't design them.

but the cooling tubes for the lights should be straight though right? one for each line. with fans between the lights and canopy.

with the "U" type depending on which way the air is going the last few lights benefit little from cooling since the air will be so hot.

again I don't know much about how this is system would work, but in all my years with SE/DE HPS you always wanted to vent that air quickly out.

thermodynamics is beyond excuse me if this was stupid.

 

[CCCmints]

Why would you be using 3590's? A lot of unnecessary money spent there.

I simply copied the 600 Watt Cree CXB3590 fixture from Timber Grow Lights. Of-course if I actually decided on building 10k watts of LED fixtures I'd pour my heart and soul into researching every aspect of that process and coming up with the most optimal build design. After hearing about how badly/quickly the PPFD in HPS lights drop during use I'm likely going to take LED a lot more serious than I was before. If you have any information that could help out I'd greatly appreciate it. As Corey said, I am very new to LED.

Just curious really, but how high are your ceilings?

I haven't bought the house I'll be doing this in yet but it will be in a basement so I'd assume around 8'.

Give him a chance and maybe a clue. He's only just started looking in to it.

@CobKits What would you do as far as which Cobs for both efficiency and price if you were going to build multiple 600w units?

Thanks Corey. I'm looking to start building this in about 5 months so I've got plenty of time to research/design a perfect system. I just started a week ago.

 

[ROCKTOTO]

You should check out lec 's they make 315 lec and 630 lec ,search it out on the forum.

 

[CCCmints]

You should check out lec 's they make 315 lec and 630 lec ,search it out on the forum.

I've heard good things, but I think I'm dead set on LED. With LED, I don't risk my most expensive equipment becoming obsolete in the near future.

1000w hps 1158 PPFD over a 4x4? no.

I just copied that from someone but I did the math myself and it turned out to be a bit higher assuming the µmol/s is as advertised.

Solis Tek DE 1000w Lamp
(1)1000watts
(2)1000 x 36.5% efficient = 365 PARwatts
(3)365 PARwatts x 90% = 328.5 PARw
(4)Advertised @ 2078 μMol/s
(5)1397.962865370175 PPFD


Regardless, degradation has been tested with a light meter and PPFD drops 28-30% within the first 3 months of a cycle. I've decided I most definitely will be going with LED. Here's the build plan so far. Things could change, and they have been changing rather frequently since I started pursuing this topic.

(40x ) 48" (4ft) Length 3/4" x 3/4" x 1/8" Aluminum Angle
https://www.metals4uonline.com/aluminum-angle-6061-3_4thsx3_4thsx1_8th
$770 - 10 Lights

(150x)
FN14074_STELLA-HB LED Reflector for Vero 29
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Nosin-s-hot-offer-electronics-components_60599192054.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.2.3c93b095kOUvNP
$1,125 - 10 Lights

(10x) 100k OHM Linear Taper Rotary Potentiometer
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...F9IZC&linkId=8d9e07361dd364e87f0e393633c0cc33
$40 - 10 Lights

(30x) HLG-320H-C1400B
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/HLG-320H-C1400-HLG-320H-C1400B_60471086832.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.3c93b095eF4QJN&s=p
$1,860 - 10 Lights

(150x) 125mm Splayed Pin Fin Heatsink for Vero 29
*Cannot share link to product out of respect for the privacy of the merchant
$2,550 - 10 Lights

(150x) COB Vero 29 3500k 38V
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Bridgelux-vero-29-3500K-COB-led_60556226117.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2f898c12BsddEE
$3,225 - 10 Lights

Total = $9,565 or $956.5/fixture

This would be running (15) Vero 29s @ 38v @ 1.3a for 49.4w/COB or 741w/fixture for a total of 7,410w in the room giving 1,170.52 PPFD. While that is lower than the advertised 1,397 PPFD of HPS, I'm taking into consideration the total light coverage difference, elimination of hot spots, dead zones, 28+% PPFD degradation (1005.84) before my 3.5 month cycle even finishes, eliminating the need to veg with different lights in a different room/transplant my plants, cost to replace bulbs after each cycle, energy savings, lessened cooling requirements, higher quality bud, and the fact that I can keep my LEDs 10-12" above the plants without issue.

I'd save roughly $112/month less on electricity and would be able to keep the 3 ton mini split instead of upgrading to a 3.5 ton along with removing the 2 inline fans saving me $1,600. So, all in all, the initial cost to use this build as my lighting system would be $7,965.

 

[MonkeyPickAss]

I think your cooling needs could be more than you think... in your previous design you were removing some of the heat with the fan loop but here 100% of the heat stays in the room. Also I think that build needs a LOT of tweaking.