1000 Watt HPS vs 630 LEC ( Light Emitting Ceramic)

Wigiberto

Wigiberto

Well-Known Member
Guys, I've heard other growers raving about the ceramic lights from Sun System. They carry the 315 watt which allegedly out performs or pars a 600 watt HPS and they carry the 630watt LEC which allegedly out performs or is on par with a 1000w HPS as well as more efficient resulting in savings in electricity.

Any thoughts on this? Any body made the switch?

I am planning on trading in my 1000w blockbuster I have in a 4x4x7 area and possibly putting in 1 or 2 630 LEC units... 2 may be overkill though.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. :cool:
 
The_Enthusiast

The_Enthusiast

Active Member
Quality "1000W DE HPS" has around 2100 PPF so around 2.1 PPF/W
Quality LEC 315W (I found somewhere but not in a datasheet) has around 600 PPF so 1.9 PPF/W

Only the light spectrum of LEC is different (go with 3000K bulb if you are going in that route) - it has more blue light...

I personally will change 2x600W HPS for 3x315W LEC because of the height in that room...
 
FamMan

FamMan

Well-Known Member
I have only vegged with Lec(2x 315). I was blown away by the results. I was late to start training in the beginning and also late to put them in my flower room. By the time I did after about 8 weeks my plants were touching the lights in a 6.5ft tall tent. I think flowering with 630s would get great results.
 
F

F32

Member
In flowering I switched from HPS to SS LEC 315s. 6 31k LECs over 4x8 tray. Not enough time has passed yet for me to give my honest opinion. But here's what I have noticed in 6 weeks. Big heat reduction, a little more crystal on the buds, increased sugar leaf to bud ratio, on center @ 8-12" from canopy PAR levels range from 1200-1600um, foot print is tiny - 4x4 is exaggerating- 3x3 is pushing it - 2.5x2.5 is acceptable, save on electricity. Not sure what to expect. Environment is the same, strain is same, difference is in the lights. I can definitely see how this light would be great in veg though.
 
Wigiberto

Wigiberto

Well-Known Member
FamMan said:
I have only vegged with Lec(2x 315). I was blown away by the results. I was late to start training in the beginning and also late to put them in my flower room. By the time I did after about 8 weeks my plants were touching the lights in a 6.5ft tall tent. I think flowering with 630s would get great results.
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Wow! That sounds like the lights had a positive impact on your plants. Can't wait to see the results in flowering! Thanks for sharing..

F32 said:
In flowering I switched from HPS to SS LEC 315s. 6 31k LECs over 4x8 tray. Not enough time has passed yet for me to give my honest opinion. But here's what I have noticed in 6 weeks. Big heat reduction, a little more crystal on the buds, increased sugar leaf to bud ratio, on center @ 8-12" from canopy PAR levels range from 1200-1600um, foot print is tiny - 4x4 is exaggerating- 3x3 is pushing it - 2.5x2.5 is acceptable, save on electricity. Not sure what to expect. Environment is the same, strain is same, difference is in the lights. I can definitely see how this light would be great in veg though.
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Ahh I see.. So you think that (1) 630 LEC unit would not cover a 4x4 footprint area fully as advertised by manufacturer? Would you think that (2) units would be optimal or overkill?
 
Wigiberto

Wigiberto

Well-Known Member
Main question is:

Is (2) 630w LEC units for a 4x4 space optimal or is it too much and a waste of lumens for the space?

:confused:
 
F

F32

Member
For me I don't think 2x 630s would be overkill in a flowering 4x4 area. Might be overkill for others though. For vegging 1x would be acceptable for me. Everyone has different growing styles and lighting requirements. If you're unsure you could try 1x 630 and go from there. If needed it might be easier to buy an additional unit vs returning or reselling.
 
Wigiberto

Wigiberto

Well-Known Member
a senile fungus said:
Ive vegged under a single CMH in a 4x4. I think you could flower under a 630. Two 630s in a 4x4 space would be overkill, IMO.
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F32 said:
For me I don't think 2x 630s would be overkill in a flowering 4x4 area. Might be overkill for others though. For vegging 1x would be acceptable for me. Everyone has different growing styles and lighting requirements. If you're unsure you could try 1x 630 and go from there. If needed it might be easier to buy an additional unit vs returning or reselling.
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Thanks for the response guys!! Your input is much appreciated!! :)
 
Wigiberto

Wigiberto

Well-Known Member
Anyone else that has run LEC's care to chime in?

I am going to my local hydro shop to pick up a 630 this week and would like to go in there prepared to either just get one for my 4x4 tent or would 2 630's be more beneficial??
 
MeGaKiLlErMaN

MeGaKiLlErMaN

Well-Known Member
The_Enthusiast said:
Quality "1000W DE HPS" has around 2100 PPF so around 2.1 PPF/W
Quality LEC 315W (I found somewhere but not in a datasheet) has around 600 PPF so 1.9 PPF/W

Only the light spectrum of LEC is different (go with 3000K bulb if you are going in that route) - it has more blue light...

I personally will change 2x600W HPS for 3x315W LEC because of the height in that room...
Click to expand...
Before reflector losses. After a Gavita hits around 1.7. But PPF doesn't mean shit to be honest. You need to know PPFD for your area. A 4x4 with a de HPS gets about 745ppfd.... Cobs.. 1200ppfd..at 830W
 
The_Enthusiast

The_Enthusiast

Active Member
MeGaKiLlErMaN said:
Before reflector losses. After a Gavita hits around 1.7. But PPF doesn't mean shit to be honest. You need to know PPFD for your area. A 4x4 with a de HPS gets about 745ppfd.... Cobs.. 1200ppfd..at 830W
Click to expand...
http://www.gavita-holland.com/index.php/products/lamps/item/gavita-pro-plus-1000w-el-de.html

That is a Philips lamp (Gavita rebrands them) so its 2.1 PPF/"W" - there is reflector loss but lamp has 2100 PPF in a sphere...
I never said nothing about spectrum of the light nor on area that that light would be used on. Its advised to have 800 - 1000 PPFD (or 1200 PPFD if you do CO2 enrichment) in your growing area and the more uniform the light distribution - the better...

I'm still waiting for a quality COB (Philips, Osram, Sylvania, GE) with a datasheet...
I don't believe in Chinese or "noname" equipment....

I tried a lot of noname/"chinese" equipment during years - only to be disappointed again....and again...
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
The_Enthusiast said:
http://www.gavita-holland.com/index.php/products/lamps/item/gavita-pro-plus-1000w-el-de.html

That is a Philips lamp (Gavita rebrands them) so its 2.1 PPF/"W" - there is reflector loss but lamp has 2100 PPF in a sphere...
I never said nothing about spectrum of the light nor on area that that light would be used on. Its advised to have 800 - 1000 PPFD (or 1200 PPFD if you do CO2 enrichment) in your growing area and the more uniform the light distribution - the better...

I'm still waiting for a quality COB (Philips, Osram, Sylvania, GE) with a datasheet...
I don't believe in Chinese or "noname" equipment....

I tried a lot of noname/"chinese" equipment during years - only to be disappointed again....and again...
Click to expand...
Biggest problem with LEDs is they are not full spectrum, even white ones are not truly full spectrum if you compare them to a full spectrum bulb like a CMH, it's because white LEDs are either a mix of different spectrum LEDs(trying to add them together to make a complete spectrum) or a LED thats coated with phosphor. LEDs make light by passing electrons through a material(two semiconductors), which is a lot different than the reaction of a pressurized gas that's electrified inside an enclosed bulb. I have personally tested numerous variations of LEDs including COBs(Cree CXA series), white LEDs (cree XTE series), White + RED (cree XTE series +osram Red) and blurple lights(bridgelux), none ever impressed me.
 
MeGaKiLlErMaN

MeGaKiLlErMaN

Well-Known Member
The_Enthusiast said:
http://www.gavita-holland.com/index.php/products/lamps/item/gavita-pro-plus-1000w-el-de.html

That is a Philips lamp (Gavita rebrands them) so its 2.1 PPF/"W" - there is reflector loss but lamp has 2100 PPF in a sphere...
I never said nothing about spectrum of the light nor on area that that light would be used on. Its advised to have 800 - 1000 PPFD (or 1200 PPFD if you do CO2 enrichment) in your growing area and the more uniform the light distribution - the better...

I'm still waiting for a quality COB (Philips, Osram, Sylvania, GE) with a datasheet...
I don't believe in Chinese or "noname" equipment....

I tried a lot of noname/"chinese" equipment during years - only to be disappointed again....and again...
Click to expand...
Who would ever trust no name equipment? I only use sphere tested Cobs.

with reflector losses the Gavtia only gets 1.7ppf/w in a sphere. Which is equal to 130W of good quality LEDs. Kinda funny really. I would never run the referance design, but it's awesome that they put out the same amount of usable light.

http://www.mouser.com/pdfdocs/HorticultureReferenceDesign.pdf
 
The_Enthusiast

The_Enthusiast

Active Member
I agree that biggest problem with single lamp + reflector is light uniformity in the grow space / room.
So next growroom I will try to implement this:

http://gavita-holland.com/index.php/documentation-a-downloads/whitepapers/item/optimal-light-calculation.html
the 5.5 x 3.6m room - in other words 10x 1000W HPS lighting up the room not "beds"

Its nice to have the WHOLE room lit with 850-950 PPFD (depending on the height 0.9 - 1.5m from floor) with 91% uniformity...

So it will cost me about 8.000€ for 10 all-in-one 1000W sets

Going down the Philips GreenPower LED Toplight it would cost about 20.000€ to have the same power of light (and I'm still not convinced they got the best spectrum....)

So - you are saying that those LEDs you posted ( Cree ) are from a quality manufacturer?
To be honest they still look little green but maybe only problem is that they don't have a strong presence in EU...
But if the quality control is good... than maybe it has a future.

Just to put in the perspective, how much would it cost you to lit a room with 5.5m x 3.6m wit those LEDs you spoke of to have a equivalent of PPFD as in Gavitas example?
 
MeGaKiLlErMaN

MeGaKiLlErMaN

Well-Known Member
The_Enthusiast said:
I agree that biggest problem with single lamp + reflector is light uniformity in the grow space / room.
So next growroom I will try to implement this:

http://gavita-holland.com/index.php/documentation-a-downloads/whitepapers/item/optimal-light-calculation.html
the 5.5 x 3.6m room - in other words 10x 1000W HPS lighting up the room not "beds"

Its nice to have the WHOLE room lit with 850-950 PPFD (depending on the height 0.9 - 1.5m from floor) with 91% uniformity...

So it will cost me about 8.000€ for 10 all-in-one 1000W sets

Going down the Philips GreenPower LED Toplight it would cost about 20.000€ to have the same power of light (and I'm still not convinced they got the best spectrum....)

So - you are saying that those LEDs you posted ( Cree ) are from a quality manufacturer?
To be honest they still look little green but maybe only problem is that they don't have a strong presence in EU...
But if the quality control is good... than maybe it has a future.

Just to put in the perspective, how much would it cost you to lit a room with 5.5m x 3.6m wit those LEDs you spoke of to have a equivalent of PPFD as in Gavitas example?
Click to expand...
Ask this in the LED forum, you will get more information than you want lol. But Veros are where I would point you to.
 
The_Enthusiast

The_Enthusiast

Active Member
MeGaKiLlErMaN said:
Ask this in the LED forum, you will get more information than you want lol. But Veros are where I would point you to.
Click to expand...
I checked that out - still don't see the economic nor practical value not to mention questionable spectral characteristic....
You came here talking about LED on non LED question - I just followed suit
 
MeGaKiLlErMaN

MeGaKiLlErMaN

Well-Known Member
The_Enthusiast said:
I checked that out - still don't see the economic nor practical value not to mention questionable spectral characteristic....
You came here talking about LED on non LED question - I just followed suit
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Just stating there are better options, more expensive 100,000 hour options. That have up to 90cri. That's all, for that space to equal a Gavita but for a quick answer it will be around 4x a Gavita. The Tasty T2-V362 you would need 4 per 4x4 area and space them out accordingly.

I wouldn't use these lights personally, because you can make them for less and it doesn't take much time. But for someone that doesn't seek to know how it would work well.
 
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