About the Middle Class ....

ViRedd

New Member
America's No. 1 Endangered Species

Is the middle class losing "its place at the table?"
Nick Gillespie | February 9, 2007
Who will speak up for the middle class, that endangered species of American vanishing more rapidly than Joe Biden's presidential aspirations? Who dast care about the forgotten 90 percent of citizens who classify themselves as neither upper nor lower class?
Oh, that's right: Everyone, especially if you're a millionaire politician or pundit. Which should be proof enough that the middle class--and you know who you are--is actually doing pretty well. They go where the votes and the viewers are.
There's Lou Dobbs, the CNN host, self-described "lifelong Republican," War on the Middle Class author, and free enterprise fan who has never met a U.S. industry he didn't want to protect or a foreign worker he didn't wanted to deport. He ponders daily why it takes so many families two incomes "just to get by."
There's Sen. James Webb (D-Va.), who in his response to President Bush's State of the Union address asserted that "the middle class of this country, our historic backbone and our best hope for a strong society in the future, is losing its place at the table."
And there's George W. himself, who frets over "income inequality [that] has been rising for over 25 years" and recently issued a rebuke to the fat cats who sit on corporate boards: "You need to pay attention to the executive compensation packages that you approve."
This trio--and a cast of thousands ranging from conservative Pat Buchanan to liberal Paul Krugman to Fed chairman Ben Bernanke to View host Rosie O'Donnell--point to indicators such as the growing share of national income held by the top 0.1 percent of households to sell a narrative every bit as cliched and unbelievable as, well, a State of the Union address that promises more government for less money: Regular, decent folks can no longer afford the American Dream because plutocrats scarf up all the lobster and filet mignon at the all-you-can-eat buffet that was the U.S. of A. We haven't just lost our place at the table, we've been sent to the kitchen to wash the dishes.
The rich are indeed getting richer (the bastards). As Steven Lagerfeld points out in the Winter 2007 issue of The Wilson Quarterly (not yet online), those 130,000 households at the very top of the earnings pyramid have increased their share of pretax wage and salary income from 2 percent in 1973 to just under 7 percent in 2004. Folks in the top 5 percent of households--those making more than $166,000--have seen their inflation-adjusted annual income jack up by a hefty two-thirds since 1970.
But everyone is getting richer. In real dollars, every quintile has posted significant annual increases over the past 35 years, ranging from $3,000 for the lowest quintile to $13,000 for the middle quintile to over $25,000 for next-to-highest one. And the individuals in those quintiles change all the time, something even The New York Times, which wrings its hands on class matters like an obsessive-compulsive, admits. Urban Institute economists Daniel P. McMurrer and Isabel V. Sawhill estimate that between 25 percent to 40 percent of individuals switch quintiles in a given year and that "rates of mobility have not changed over time." Research tracking individuals in the lowest income quintile in 1968 found that 23 years later, 53 percent were in a higher quintile and that half had spent at least a year in the top income quintile.
More important, basic indicators of wealth and opportunity drive home the reality that the middle class' place at the table is pretty secure--maybe not the best seat in the house, but arguably better than ever. A historically high 70 percent of Americans own their homes (see table 956). And two-thirds of high school graduates go on to college (up from half in 1970) [see table 265]. That wouldn't be happening if the U.S. was fast turning into the Brazil of the North.
But don't expect the "vanishing middle class" storyline to itself vanish. Pols and pundits will use scare stories to drum up business and push minimum wage hikes, tax breaks to pay for the wage hikes, prescription drug coverage, and on and on. We in the middle class like the attention (and the more-than-occasional entitlement). More to the point, there are more of us and we've all got more to lose than we used to. Which also means we've got even more to worry about.
Nick Gillespie is editor-in-chief of Reason.
 

rsupload

Well-Known Member
You know..they consider you middle class if you make more than $30,000. Ppl with incomes greater than $30,000 pay 95% of all taxes. Of the remaining 5%, 50% (of that 5%) pay no taxes at all. Not sure if that relates but thought it was interesting.
 

medicineman

New Member
Geeze Vi, where do you come up with this crap. this is total nonsense. The middle class is paying the major burden of taxes, while the top 5-10% get a huge pass, and the corporations that dont get huge tax breaks are moving their operations out of the country, only flying the American flag for protection. If you believe this asshole, then you are fucking looney. How does it feel to be in the minority and be wrong, you are a loser. You have lost the ability to judge right and wrong. Other than that, you may be a nice fellow, naw, just kidding.
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
Med do facts mean anything to you?
Evidently you do not care about the real world results of human beings organized into functioning societies?
To state that Vi's post is nonsense, without one scintilla of evidence to buttress this assertion is typical of someone such as you. You are not serious, IMO!
You simply make things up to maintain the security of your deluded cocoon, which you gleefully inhabit!
Holy Cow!
 

medicineman

New Member
Med do facts mean anything to you?
Evidently you do not care about the real world results of human beings organized into functioning societies?
To state that Vi's post is nonsense, without one scintilla of evidence to buttress this assertion is typical of someone such as you. You are not serious, IMO!
You simply make things up to maintain the security of your deluded cocoon, which you gleefully inhabit!
Holy Cow!
Does the word asshole hold any meaning to you, it certainly does to me, and you prove it time and again, You and guys like you are the poster boys for assholes. You attack without provocation or meaning. The facts are my delirious one, the middle class has been burdened with the largest portion of taxes since Bushco took over. The corporations have had tax breaks reaped upon them like christmas in July, the energy corporations literally wrote the energy policies which gave huge tax incentives to themselves. the oil companies are raping us like screwed ducks and you are calling me a fucking liar. Pull your head out of whoevers ass you have it stuck up and take a real look at Bushcos' America. So you got a fucking tax break, at the expense of our great-great grandchildren, you and people like you are fucking pathetic!
 

medicineman

New Member
America's No. 1 Endangered Species

Is the middle class losing "its place at the table?"
Nick Gillespie | February 9, 2007
Who will speak up for the middle class, that endangered species of American vanishing more rapidly than Joe Biden's presidential aspirations? Who dast care about the forgotten 90 percent of citizens who classify themselves as neither upper nor lower class?
Oh, that's right: Everyone, especially if you're a millionaire politician or pundit. Which should be proof enough that the middle class--and you know who you are--is actually doing pretty well. They go where the votes and the viewers are.
There's Lou Dobbs, the CNN host, self-described "lifelong Republican," War on the Middle Class author, and free enterprise fan who has never met a U.S. industry he didn't want to protect or a foreign worker he didn't wanted to deport. He ponders daily why it takes so many families two incomes "just to get by."
There's Sen. James Webb (D-Va.), who in his response to President Bush's State of the Union address asserted that "the middle class of this country, our historic backbone and our best hope for a strong society in the future, is losing its place at the table."
And there's George W. himself, who frets over "income inequality [that] has been rising for over 25 years" and recently issued a rebuke to the fat cats who sit on corporate boards: "You need to pay attention to the executive compensation packages that you approve."
This trio--and a cast of thousands ranging from conservative Pat Buchanan to liberal Paul Krugman to Fed chairman Ben Bernanke to View host Rosie O'Donnell--point to indicators such as the growing share of national income held by the top 0.1 percent of households to sell a narrative every bit as cliched and unbelievable as, well, a State of the Union address that promises more government for less money: Regular, decent folks can no longer afford the American Dream because plutocrats scarf up all the lobster and filet mignon at the all-you-can-eat buffet that was the U.S. of A. We haven't just lost our place at the table, we've been sent to the kitchen to wash the dishes.
The rich are indeed getting richer (the bastards). As Steven Lagerfeld points out in the Winter 2007 issue of The Wilson Quarterly (not yet online), those 130,000 households at the very top of the earnings pyramid have increased their share of pretax wage and salary income from 2 percent in 1973 to just under 7 percent in 2004. Folks in the top 5 percent of households--those making more than $166,000--have seen their inflation-adjusted annual income jack up by a hefty two-thirds since 1970.
But everyone is getting richer. In real dollars, every quintile has posted significant annual increases over the past 35 years, ranging from $3,000 for the lowest quintile to $13,000 for the middle quintile to over $25,000 for next-to-highest one. And the individuals in those quintiles change all the time, something even The New York Times, which wrings its hands on class matters like an obsessive-compulsive, admits. Urban Institute economists Daniel P. McMurrer and Isabel V. Sawhill estimate that between 25 percent to 40 percent of individuals switch quintiles in a given year and that "rates of mobility have not changed over time." Research tracking individuals in the lowest income quintile in 1968 found that 23 years later, 53 percent were in a higher quintile and that half had spent at least a year in the top income quintile.
More important, basic indicators of wealth and opportunity drive home the reality that the middle class' place at the table is pretty secure--maybe not the best seat in the house, but arguably better than ever. A historically high 70 percent of Americans own their homes (see table 956). And two-thirds of high school graduates go on to college (up from half in 1970) [see table 265]. That wouldn't be happening if the U.S. was fast turning into the Brazil of the North.
But don't expect the "vanishing middle class" storyline to itself vanish. Pols and pundits will use scare stories to drum up business and push minimum wage hikes, tax breaks to pay for the wage hikes, prescription drug coverage, and on and on. We in the middle class like the attention (and the more-than-occasional entitlement). More to the point, there are more of us and we've all got more to lose than we used to. Which also means we've got even more to worry about.
Nick Gillespie is editor-in-chief of Reason.
 

7xstall

Well-Known Member
The middle class is paying the major burden of taxes, while the top 5-10% get a huge pass


a "huge pass"?? lol


yeah, we should tax those greedy, corrupt corporations so heavily that they can't afford to pay people to work for them... let's just shut down America.

huge pass. that really is funny.



It's better to be born rich, and go to school just to party, Like G.W. Bush.

more lols!

yeah, if you're not born rich it's just not worth trying to do anything other than access an open tit on the government sow...




.

 

medicineman

New Member
The middle class is paying the major burden of taxes, while the top 5-10% get a huge pass


a "huge pass"?? lol


yeah, we should tax those greedy, corrupt corporations so heavily that they can't afford to pay people to work for them... let's just shut down America.

huge pass. that really is funny.



It's better to be born rich, and go to school just to party, Like G.W. Bush.

more lols!

yeah, if you're not born rich it's just not worth trying to do anything other than access an open tit on the government sow...


you are one warped puppy. Show me where I am wrong. Did not the energy companies write energy policy behind closed doors with Dick cheney? are not the corporations getting huge tax incentives or threatining to leave the country, did not the top 5% of taxpayers recieve the largest cuts LOL all day long but you know I'm right. Again I'll state: you are in some kind of time warp or other worldly head status if you can't see these facts. Look if you can't disprove these assertions, then just go back to your little dream world and snooze.
.

...........................
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
Med, you are once again letting emotion rule your thought process.
Corporations do not pay taxes.
Taxation of a corporation is simply a cost of doing business.
The corporations will raise their prices to maintain their profit margin.
The corporation's customers pay any tax increase.
The corporation just raises its prices, so the consumer bears the burden of any tax increase.
Once again, you have it exactly backwards!
Yikes!
:roll:


Besides this, the fact is that a certain percentage of corporate earnings are taxed TWICE!
First a corporation pays a tax on its income, if that corporation pays a cash dividend to its shareholders, the shareholders pay an additional tax on the dividends they are paid out.
:mrgreen:
 

7xstall

Well-Known Member
you are one warped puppy.
thanks.

Show me where I am wrong.
it would be much easier to show you where you're right....let me get back to you on that. :)


Did not the energy companies write energy policy behind closed doors with Dick cheney?
yes. dingdingding! now, when you were serving in Vietnam, did you have open door meetings and invite Jane Fonda or other peace activists to help you develop your day to day plans? what about the VC, were they invited to jot down notes about your patrol details? i hope not... there are times when you need to cut to the chase and get productive. so what, Cheney didn't want to sit and chat with a bunch of anti-oil idiots - at present oil runs our country so let's get down to business! now he needs to have another closed door meeting and put some pressure on big oil to ease up on this $3/ gal bs...

are not the corporations getting huge tax incentives
coporations like the airlines, whose union employee base threatens to go on strike if they don't get their new coke machines? what incentives? since i don't run a corporation i don't know...show me the money.

threatining to leave the country
i don't know.


, did not the top 5% of taxpayers recieve the largest cuts LOL all day long but you know I'm right.
let me make this simple med, if you wanted to buy 20 lbs of weed and i said, well, i sell this stuff for $65 a quarter so we'll multiply that by 4, then 16, then by 20...hmm, comes to $83,200. would you buy that from me if you could get the same thing for $2,000 a lb from someone else? you would rightly expect a volume discount. same for taxpayers. those of us who earn small annual amounts (<150,000) make up the bulk of the economy med, we create the burden on the government - not the big corps. it's simply not fair to tax them with the same rates as we pay. why do the dems resist this concept? jealousy.

Again I'll state: you are in some kind of time warp or other worldly head status if you can't see these facts. Look if you can't disprove these assertions, then just go back to your little dream world and snooze.
ok.





.
 

ViRedd

New Member
A time warp is a great way to put it, 7x. People who have the thought base of Med are living in the past. They walk out on the same streets we do. They see the same skyscrapers, modes of transportation and type on keyboards similar to ours sending instant messages all over the world. They see all the other technological advancements we see, but it never occurs to them what it was that brought these advancements into existence. They would destroy the very heart of capitalism in their efforts to "progress" back into the Dark Ages.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
A time warp is a great way to put it, 7x. People who have the thought base of Med are living in the past. They walk out on the same streets we do. They see the same skyscrapers, modes of transportation and type on keyboards similar to ours sending instant messages all over the world. They see all the other technological advancements we see, but it never occurs to them what it was that brought these advancements into existence. They would destroy the very heart of capitalism in their efforts to "progress" back into the Dark Ages.

Vi
In your world, everything must be for VI and Fuck everyone else. Why you think your pitiful little life is so important I'll never know. You must have been weened early or deprived of toys when you were young. Your selfish view, and others like you are the bane of the planet, Better buy some asbestos pajamas, cause you are sure to roast in hell!
 

ViRedd

New Member
And what did your last post have to do with the bane of socialism or the bright light of free market creativity? Can you ever indulge in rational political debate, Med?

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
you are one warped puppy.
thanks.

Show me where I am wrong.
it would be much easier to show you where you're right....let me get back to you on that. :)


Did not the energy companies write energy policy behind closed doors with Dick cheney?
yes. dingdingding! now, when you were serving in Vietnam, did you have open door meetings and invite Jane Fonda or other peace activists to help you develop your day to day plans? what about the VC, were they invited to jot down notes about your patrol details? i hope not... there are times when you need to cut to the chase and get productive. so what, Cheney didn't want to sit and chat with a bunch of anti-oil idiots - at present oil runs our country so let's get down to business! now he needs to have another closed door meeting and put some pressure on big oil to ease up on this $3/ gal bs...

are not the corporations getting huge tax incentives
coporations like the airlines, whose union employee base threatens to go on strike if they don't get their new coke machines? what incentives? since i don't run a corporation i don't know...show me the money.

threatining to leave the country
i don't know.


, did not the top 5% of taxpayers recieve the largest cuts LOL all day long but you know I'm right.
let me make this simple med, if you wanted to buy 20 lbs of weed and i said, well, i sell this stuff for $65 a quarter so we'll multiply that by 4, then 16, then by 20...hmm, comes to $83,200. would you buy that from me if you could get the same thing for $2,000 a lb from someone else? you would rightly expect a volume discount. same for taxpayers. those of us who earn small annual amounts (<150,000) make up the bulk of the economy med, we create the burden on the government - not the big corps. it's simply not fair to tax them with the same rates as we pay. why do the dems resist this concept? jealousy.

Again I'll state: you are in some kind of time warp or other worldly head status if you can't see these facts. Look if you can't disprove these assertions, then just go back to your little dream world and snooze.
ok.

.
Nice job, doubletalk and bullshit. The reason the price of gas is 3.00+++ is the fact that cheney let the oil companies write their own policies. For someone that appears to have a bit of intelligence, you sure didn't show it on that post, I'm dissappointed 7X, you've been listening to Vi and wavels too much! Pretty soon you'll be just spouting the old mindless Bush rhetoric, and squeeling like a pig over your tax cuts. Ah yes the elite. I can hardly wait for the revolution, the first ones to go, the skull and bonsers, they are the most evil entity on the planet.
 

medicineman

New Member
{this is the part where you actually provide rational information, thanks!}
I have no information that your warped minds will accept as rational. When you are adjudicating from an irrational position, obviously the adjudicant will appear to be irrational. In other words when your mind is in a narrow crevice, you can't see whats on the outside. For me to try and explain common sense to you who have steeled your mind in Rhetoric is a hopeless endeavor and therefore I will not make the effort. If you ever exibit a willingness to listen to rationality, I will attempt to breach that thickness in your cranial area, otherwise, as usual, Bon Voyage.
 

7xstall

Well-Known Member
:roll:

forcing successful businesses, which are the backbone of America, to pay more taxes is ludicrous. we should be figuring out ways to shrink the government to it's founding intent.

sounds rational to me.




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