All LED Indoor Grow- Quantum Boards vs AutoCob's

Evil-Mobo

Evil-Mobo

Well-Known Member
714steadyeddie said:
Yea those grassroots containers are dope. I'm not too sure about the runoff part. From what I understand in no till you can just keep the soil moist and not worry too much about runoff since the mircoherd should be breaking everything down and making it readily available.


As far as your gg4 you should try and give it a good flush with just your basic nutes, I think there might been an excess cal or mag and it locks out phosphorus giving those ugly purple stems
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Sweet on the GG #4. I will flush them tonight with the organic feed and we shall see
 
Evil-Mobo

Evil-Mobo

Well-Known Member
Tonight's update from the garden. Things rocking along. Have made some adjustments with nutrients and lights etc. I took the SBA out of the veg closet so I could set the cloner up in there with cuts from the SBA and the GG#4's. The SBA got a good haircut had to clean out a lot of foliage from both or there would be mold issues for sure in the future. This was my alternative to chopping them down which is what I wanted to do. The pics were from before all work tonight so not 100% accurate anymore. But no "standing" water in the pics :mrgreen:

Both SBA are now in the COB tent with the GG#4. The GG#4 got a good cleanup on the bottoms before the SBA went in. I lowered two of the COB's one over each SBA at a height of about 12-13". The QB tent is running the auto's, the seedlings, and one of my Doggie Dreams seedlings. The veg closet is ticking along with the Satori Male, Purple Eny, Blue Harley, and one of my other Doggie Dreams. Happy with how plant health is coming along after the adjustments that have been made and continue to be made. The bigger tent should be up and running by the end of the month at which time the GG#4 and "maybe" the SBA will be flipped to 12/12.

Thanks for checking in :bigjoint:

IMG_20170815_214320.jpg IMG_20170815_214328.jpg IMG_20170815_214337.jpg IMG_20170815_214349.jpg
 
completenoobie

completenoobie

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
photons degrade into heat, they heat up the walls of the tent when they strike it, they heat up your plants when they hit them.....i HATE this law....i know it intellectually, but it just seems WRONG to me...but no matter the efficiency, if you put 1000 watts into a light, it's going to produce 1000 watts worth of heat. whether its an h.i.d. light, or the best top bin cob. period. end of the story.
the savings (in heat and money) come from getting more photons per watt, so you can use less watts to get the same result. thats it. period. took me forever to accept that...not sure i do deep in my heart, even now.....but thats the way it works.
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you know what motherufcker? goddamnit you're an asshole, FUCK!!! you're an asshole because you are exactly right. Shit. Your sigline echoes you're explanation and it hit me like a ton of bricks. I am a lifelong learner, love science, decent at math, chem, and some physics but haven't taken any of those classes yet (physics). I know a lot about electronics and some about electricity/lighting, etc. And this was exactly that epiphany you bespoke contained in the message that delivered it. Son of a fucking bitch. Fuck me.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
completenoobie said:
you know what motherufcker? goddamnit you're an asshole, FUCK!!! you're an asshole because you are exactly right. Shit. Your sigline echoes you're explanation and it hit me like a ton of bricks. I am a lifelong learner, love science, decent at math, chem, and some physics but haven't taken any of those classes yet (physics). I know a lot about electronics and some about electricity/lighting, etc. And this was exactly that epiphany you bespoke contained in the message that delivered it. Son of a fucking bitch. Fuck me.
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LOL

Doncha just hate it when that happens?
 
completenoobie

completenoobie

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
When the photons land on something, they become heat energy again.

I'm sure I'm missing something.
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I don't think you are. If the box is empty but for the lights, then then we can dismiss environ factors because they don't exist. However, anything inside has to be counted because it is a variable. The pant does absorb the light and eventually converts it to heat in some way or another. It is all in the conversion factor. No conversion or energy to heat or work is perfect, so there is loss, but the conversion factor can be found scientifically with enough resources and effort.

They are right, a watt is a watt and how that manifests is irrelevant as it eventually is converted to heat and can be measured as such.

I know, I know, this is old news and I'm really late to the table, but damnit that epiphany hurt and I can see clearly now the rain is gone. At least I'm not responding to a message from 2008 like it was yesterday. I'll shut up and keep reading and try to catch up now, sorry.

entropy, it's the universal law. everything casts off its heat and the universe will eventually go cold.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
completenoobie said:
I don't think you are. If the box is empty but for the lights, then then we can dismiss environ factors because they don't exist. However, anything inside has to be counted because it is a variable. The pant does absorb the light and eventually converts it to heat in some way or another. It is all in the conversion factor. No conversion or energy to heat or work is perfect, so there is loss, but the conversion factor can be found scientifically with enough resources and effort.

They are right, a watt is a watt and how that manifests is irrelevant as it eventually is converted to heat and can be measured as such.

I know, I know, this is old news and I'm really late to the table, but damnit that epiphany hurt and I can see clearly now the rain is gone. At least I'm not responding to a message from 2008 like it was yesterday. I'll shut up and keep reading and try to catch up now, sorry.

entropy, it's the universal law. everything casts off its heat and the universe will eventually go cold.
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Matter and energy are never created or destroyed, they just change forms.

The loss in conversion you mention IS heat.

The reason LED lighting is cooler is that you need fewer watts to get the same light intensity, therefore less heat is generated. It isn't any more complicated than that.
 
completenoobie

completenoobie

Well-Known Member
I agree completely, hands down. hope it didn't come across differently in the prior post. conversions are the devil. and so are biological (read exothermic) processes.

use the light === making heat eventually, no way around it.

consume sugar (energy) exhaust heat (work)
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
completenoobie said:
I agree completely, hands down. hope it didn't come across differently in the prior post. conversions are the devil. and so are biological (read exothermic) processes.

use the light === making heat eventually, no way around it.

consume sugar (energy) exhaust heat (work)
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Heat can take many forms.

In the case of an indoor grow op, much of that heat is converted into RH by the plants themselves.

This is why an empty room is always hotter and drier than one full of plants.
 
completenoobie

completenoobie

Well-Known Member
coreywebster said:
So my thoughts until been told this "science fact" were light converted to photosynthesis (no matter how small that is) is been used as that and not turned to heat.
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Incorrect, photosynthesis is a biological process and almost, if not all biological processes are exothermic, meaning they absorb energy, from whatever source, light or sugar or…. And convert it to an energy they can use. Some is used directly to eventually put off heat for one reason or another and some is lost due to the conversion factor since no conversion is perfect, in the form of guess what….. drum roll please, YEP, you guessed it, HEAT.


Bosgrower said:
For purposes of this discussion, we're only considering the characteristics of the electrical circuit, not what happens to the photons after they are created.
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But you can’t, because they are there. They are eventually consumed and converted to heat. Eat a bunch of candy bars full of sugar (energy) and go outside and run around the block a hundred times and come back and swear to me that you never increased your temperature, that you aren’t hotter after than before. You can’t dismiss a variable just because it wasn’t in the original equation. It counts.


ttystikk said:
Since it's indoors and we're taking ambient temperature readings, I suggest we use closed system assumptions.
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Exactly.


Fevs said:
Yeah, forget all that bollocks, but do not disregard the fact that the plants are using the light, therefore some is Not being turned into heat
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Incorrect, it IS being converted into heat eventually, biological processes are mostly exothermic. Do the sugar trick above if you don’t believe me.


ttystikk said:
Light hitting leaves also turns to heat; in this case, transpiring water into vapor and cooling the plant.
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uhhhhh, YEP. biological process equals exothermic reaction.

dstroy said:
It all ends up as heat eventually. The reason that we need heatsinks on the led array is because they are not 100% efficient at turning input energy into light. So however efficient they are, the rest gets turned into heat. And the more inefficient they are (driven harder) the more heatsink area you need. But like others have said 600w in = 600w heater pretty much.


The reason that some users can get their tent cooler is because they are getting the same amount of usable light from their newer lower wattage light that produces the same amount of light that their higher wattage lower efficiency light did.


You can't take away energy that you put into a system, it has to go somewhere. It ends up as heat.
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Yes.


Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.


Entropy, it’s a law. Thermodynamics, these are laws.


coreywebster said:
Energy for the functioning of an ecosystem comes from the Sun. Solar energy is absorbed by plants where in it is converted to stored chemical energy.
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YES, which is then in turn therefore converted to heat. Plants don’t store energy infinitely, they use it to grow. A biological process which……..dah ta da dah….. is exothermic (as all or most are). Seeing a pattern here?

These plants will eventually die with a certain amount of stored energy, be it chemical or otherwise, as will we. However, neither will die having stored up every bit of energy ever taken in. Can you imagine dying with every gram of sugar fat your body ever stored not having had to use it for biological processes? Being as fat as you would be if every single calorie you ever consumed still hanging on to the vessel. Do the sugar trick above and I dare you not to “lose weight” or sweat.


coreywebster said:
Also, I would like to apologise for distracting from your thread with the whole "all light turns to heat eventually" debate.
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As do I sir. My apologies. It is at least slightly relevant, but I am looking forward to the results more. I am conducting my research in advance of a purchase and I need all the data I can muster.


greg nr said:
Light is energy, not heat (despite what the grow boss says). Energy can be converted into work or heat. In the case of photosynthesis, it is used to produce sugars and O2 from light, CO2, and H2O. That is work. Any energy used to produce work doesn't necessarily produce heat (a chem reaction could be endothermic).
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All energy eventually becomes heat. Which in turn is eventually absorbed by the system (universe on the grand scale). I think all work is exothermic, I think endothermic rxns require work as input in order to proceed, absorbing the heat from the system, you have to provide energy, ususally in the form of heat. That is what I took away from all my chem classes. Biology is mostly exothermic. Throw some ammonium nitrate in water and it gets cold and absorbs heat from the system, I do not think this rxn would happen at all in the complete absence of heat, absolute zero, as there would be no heat to absorb, besides, it wouldn’t be water anyway. I mean yes it would be H2O, but it wouldn’t exactly be in an easily reactable liquid state. It would have the same formula as water just not the same state.


Roger A. Shrubber said:
if you convert energy into work, the work passes that energy along as friction, resistance, impact, w/e, most of which dissipate as heat....you can't win....the law is the law....if it goes in, it comes out. ask any physics teacher. if you put 100 watts into a light, its going to come out as 100 watts of heat. i'm really not trying to be a dick, or even argue. i realize it sounds wrong, but its right, and until you accept that, you'll never get the math right. try putting a 1000 watts worth of cobs in an area that had a 1000 watt hps in it, wait a few hours, and see what happens. its easily provable if you have the equipment. the test with the black spot above was invalid, unless you want to know the temperature of a black spot. if they would have put an ambient thermometer in that space and waited long enough, they would have read the same.

as photons degrade, they turn into heat...even the wind from your fans eventually turns back into heat....
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yeah, goddamnit, what he said. I gotta get past this and quit this shit and get on to the point of the thread. I’m about to buy a light. What light should I buy for a 5x5x6 tent for flower? That’s why I came here looking, damnit, not to get caught up in this wonderfully perplexing education. FM.


Ryante55 said:
Man it sucks to scroll past all these stupid posts about heat just don't buy led if you think hps is just as cool...the end back to growing please
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And here my dumbass is bringing it back up again. FMA.
 
SoOLED

SoOLED

Well-Known Member
Evil-Mobo said:
Tonight's update from the garden. Things rocking along. Have made some adjustments with nutrients and lights etc. I took the SBA out of the veg closet so I could set the cloner up in there with cuts from the SBA and the GG#4's. The SBA got a good haircut had to clean out a lot of foliage from both or there would be mold issues for sure in the future. This was my alternative to chopping them down which is what I wanted to do. The pics were from before all work tonight so not 100% accurate anymore. But no "standing" water in the pics :mrgreen:

Both SBA are now in the COB tent with the GG#4. The GG#4 got a good cleanup on the bottoms before the SBA went in. I lowered two of the COB's one over each SBA at a height of about 12-13". The QB tent is running the auto's, the seedlings, and one of my Doggie Dreams seedlings. The veg closet is ticking along with the Satori Male, Purple Eny, Blue Harley, and one of my other Doggie Dreams. Happy with how plant health is coming along after the adjustments that have been made and continue to be made. The bigger tent should be up and running by the end of the month at which time the GG#4 and "maybe" the SBA will be flipped to 12/12.

Thanks for checking in :bigjoint:

View attachment 3995675 View attachment 3995676 View attachment 3995677 View attachment 3995679
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aww your clones are so li-lo.
 
Evil-Mobo

Evil-Mobo

Well-Known Member
Garden update. Everyone was watered/fed and given foliar spray today. Happy with how things are coming along. Plants are looking much healthier. Bigger flower tent should be up and running by the end of the month. I will be putting up (2) 600 W HID's in 6" Raptor hoods. Excited to grow some HID buds again. Hopefully the SBA will stretch better under the COB's like they usually do and can go to flower along with the GG#4 girls. I transplanted 4 of the hubba bubba smelliscope auto's into #1's today. The other two went to a friends house and were transplanted into their final pots over there. They're under (2) AutoCobs in a 2x4 over there. The clones are yellowing out some might up the nutrient in the water when I do a res change we will see. My Doggie Dreams seedling under the 600w Blue MH is really coming into her own so healthy and lush now. Makes me happy :bigjoint:

The plants are getting more to what I like to see health and color wise adjustments have gone well so far. Stems on the GG#4 are getting more green and less purple now too. Few pics from tonight.

Thanks for checking in:
:peace:

IMG_20170816_230054.jpg IMG_20170816_230117.jpg IMG_20170816_230253.jpg IMG_20170816_230317.jpg
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
completenoobie said:
Incorrect, photosynthesis is a biological process and almost, if not all biological processes are exothermic, meaning they absorb energy, from whatever source, light or sugar or…. And convert it to an energy they can use. Some is used directly to eventually put off heat for one reason or another and some is lost due to the conversion factor since no conversion is perfect, in the form of guess what….. drum roll please, YEP, you guessed it, HEAT.





But you can’t, because they are there. They are eventually consumed and converted to heat. Eat a bunch of candy bars full of sugar (energy) and go outside and run around the block a hundred times and come back and swear to me that you never increased your temperature, that you aren’t hotter after than before. You can’t dismiss a variable just because it wasn’t in the original equation. It counts.





Exactly.





Incorrect, it IS being converted into heat eventually, biological processes are mostly exothermic. Do the sugar trick above if you don’t believe me.





uhhhhh, YEP. biological process equals exothermic reaction.




Yes.


Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.


Entropy, it’s a law. Thermodynamics, these are laws.





YES, which is then in turn therefore converted to heat. Plants don’t store energy infinitely, they use it to grow. A biological process which……..dah ta da dah….. is exothermic (as all or most are). Seeing a pattern here?

These plants will eventually die with a certain amount of stored energy, be it chemical or otherwise, as will we. However, neither will die having stored up every bit of energy ever taken in. Can you imagine dying with every gram of sugar fat your body ever stored not having had to use it for biological processes? Being as fat as you would be if every single calorie you ever consumed still hanging on to the vessel. Do the sugar trick above and I dare you not to “lose weight” or sweat.




As do I sir. My apologies. It is at least slightly relevant, but I am looking forward to the results more. I am conducting my research in advance of a purchase and I need all the data I can muster.





All energy eventually becomes heat. Which in turn is eventually absorbed by the system (universe on the grand scale). I think all work is exothermic, I think endothermic rxns require work as input in order to proceed, absorbing the heat from the system, you have to provide energy, ususally in the form of heat. That is what I took away from all my chem classes. Biology is mostly exothermic. Throw some ammonium nitrate in water and it gets cold and absorbs heat from the system, I do not think this rxn would happen at all in the complete absence of heat, absolute zero, as there would be no heat to absorb, besides, it wouldn’t be water anyway. I mean yes it would be H2O, but it wouldn’t exactly be in an easily reactable liquid state. It would have the same formula as water just not the same state.





yeah, goddamnit, what he said. I gotta get past this and quit this shit and get on to the point of the thread. I’m about to buy a light. What light should I buy for a 5x5x6 tent for flower? That’s why I came here looking, damnit, not to get caught up in this wonderfully perplexing education. FM.




And here my dumbass is bringing it back up again. FMA.
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'I fought the law and the law won'
 
Evil-Mobo

Evil-Mobo

Well-Known Member
@ttystikk

Question for you since you're Mr. Phillips. On the 315 LEC bulbs I know there's two different K temps, but the question I have is, are there two different bulbs specifically for vertical and horizontal orientation in the fixture? Or does it not matter? Am I confusing the 315 bulb with the Blue MH from hortilux that is like that?
 
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