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Almost 1/3 of all homicides in my county 2010-16 were police killings

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ttystikk, Aug 7, 2017.

  1.  
    st0wandgrow

    st0wandgrow Well-Known Member

    I agree with you that overtly racist speech needs to be called out. I'm not at all suggesting that it should be tolerated.

    I do feel that there is a certain segment of society that is so entrenched in their beliefs that they will never change. That's a small minority though. I believe that the vast majority of people that are labeled as racists can be turned around. People are more open to hearing you out if they're approached as your equal and not talked down to. Presenting them with facts, reason, and real world experiences as opposed to ridicule and name calling. Something as simple as a kind gesture from a minority could be all it takes. Challenge their preconceived notions, but do it with respect.

    Maybe that's a bunch of pie-in-the-sky thinking, but I do know for certain that when you attempt to shame someone and pepper them with grade school insults, they will only dig their heels in and close their mind to whatever message you're trying to convey.

    I consider someone like Barrack Obama to be far more in the know than I when it comes to this issue. If he says that we need to meet the hate with understanding and kindness, then I will defer to him and follow his lead.
     
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  2.  
    Fogdog

    Fogdog Well-Known Member

    OK. so as with what London said, he let's others tell him who they are. I can go along with the idea of waiting for others to reveal and be polite until then.

    I've made mistakes before by jumping the gun based upon false assumptions of who they are. And regret it. I had an encounter with @Gquebed yesterday where in retrospect I was too harsh. Unfair, really. This is said as an apology to him if he reads this. And so, I'll tone my shit down. I do care about people but I'm kind of a jerk too.
     
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  3.  
    ttystikk

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    And it must be said that it's very, very easy to be a jerk when it comes to this stuff- not pointing any fingers.

    No surprise that it's so effective as a tool to divide the populace against itself and thus allow the elites to manipulate them.
     
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  4.  
    Fogdog

    Fogdog Well-Known Member

    upload_2017-9-8_15-35-26.jpeg
     
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  5.  
    ttystikk

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    I'm as guilty as the next guy. That's actually a big reason why I'm choosing to focus on the economic aspects of our political situation, in the hopes that I can make more headway there.
     
  6.  
    StonerCol

    StonerCol Well-Known Member

    Hey we made the blueprint for exploiting people of another land, stealing their resources then shooting them when they complained.
    But then they were Godless black savages so not only were we taking what was rightfully ours but the savages had it coming to them because...well they're savages.
    To be fair though the Dutch, Portuguese, French and Belgians weren't too far behind us so yeah, let us Europeans fix things......
    And now that you have corrupt leaders in countries like Nigeria who need to stash their looted bounty somewhere, we provide cosy little bank accounts in places where it is safe from prying eyes. Or we let them set up shell companies so they can buy up property in London at inflated prices - which these corrupt people can afford cos it aint their money - and meanwhile Londoners can't afford to buy a house. And the govt. does nothing because some of this money finds its' way into their coffers.
    Then the govt. decides that every construction company that builds houses also has to build a few affordable ones for ordinary workers. Unless they decide they don't want to, then that company can pay a bit of cash to the govt. instead of building those houses........
     
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  7.  
    ttystikk

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    TRUTH, spoken right here.
    :clap:
     
  8.  
    StonerCol

    StonerCol Well-Known Member

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  9.  
    Flowki

    Flowki Well-Known Member

    Yes we are getting somewhere. It's your country so I guess you have more insight to stereo type half of the white populous. Assuming your assumptions are correct, does being unaware of your point make them racist or evil?. What about the other half, are they actually racist or split between racist and definitely not?. That would suggest to me that at best 3/4+ of the entire white populous of America is not actively or intentionally racist (huge difference). I bet if a black man said ''that racially offends me'' the white man of those you point toward would cease in what ever was causing that distress. You are painting the picture of a horrendous country otherwise.

    I am a black man living in a heavily populated white area, Ive suffered first hand to covert and direct racism, but those racists are definitely a tiny minority. The large majority are not racist but some say things that have been passed down that could be considered racist. For example, it's a widely used term to say ''I'm going to the paki shop''. I have even used this term myself many times. Paki is ofc a broken down word for Pakistan. But then paki is also used as an actual insult so the word has two meanings. People who go to the ''paki shop'' are just normal people. People who stand in the street screaming paki at passers by are racist cunts. Saying I'm going to the paki shop is not politically correct these days but look at it from another angle. If in Greece you as an American opened a shop and the locals say ''I am going to the Ami shop'' would you find that offensive?. When they start throwing stones and shouting fucking Ami fucking Ami.. things change. The normal none racist locals by that point are so use to saying ''Ami shop'' you have to appreciate that this blur of language becomes a grey area. Obviously this is just one small example of how a ordinary none racist persons gets mixed up in the political correctness/changing of times. Again, if most of these people are pulled up on a potentially offensive thing they were not aware was offensive I'd like to believe they would rethink it. I know many white people who have done this.. and I have done it myself as times have changed.

    Your country is still very young in the grand scheme of things and it has been riddled with internal difficulties of many kinds, that stuff does not just disappear (Britain has walked that path long ago). Most of what I wrote above kinda covers your points here and I agree with all of them apart from the one that sparked all this. At the end of the day, an ordinary white American trying to live his life and not deliberately offend/hurt anybody can not be held responsible for mishaps in his social conditioning/norms so long as he changes them should they become of genuine offense. We have all been subjected to social conditioning, not all of us have the single mind or even awareness that we can learn our way out of it.. but the internet is helping a lot in this now, while creating other difficulties.

    The UK lost a huge amount of industry to other white nations and corp power. We can not even fish in parts of our own waters while other countries can. Our farmers were told to stop farming due to cheap import, home owners and pensions under attack from every angle. Trust me when I tell you this is not racially motivated as millions of white people suffer in 3rd world like poverty to this, again the thing in common here is they are easy targets, but economically rather than by military force.

    What you also need to consider is that a lot of the colored country's were at a unique disadvantage. Their cultural and religious practices along with technological short falling and geological locations/resources made them easy targets in the beginning of destabilization. In your very own country the Native Americans are a perfect example. White man won the technological race to forcefully take a lot from the weaker parties (most of who were of color, coincidentally theirs a lot of color in the world so statistically it was inevitable given the know resource locations at that point). The white men reach into many other white countries through corporate and even military means. Britain basically holds Scotland and Ireland by varying degree of each leash over the years. These powerful white men you speak of are the top small %.. the millions of other white men trying to live normal lives in this cluster fuck of a world are not at fault. Those top % of white people, you have extremely powerful people/corps of a few colored nations too.

    The Chinese are not being racist. They are simply doing what America and England have done where ever they could over history, take from easy targets. The color of those targets is irrelevant, only the means those targets have to defend themselves, or not. I pointed out that they have taken from America but also England and plenty other country's that would be considered ''white'' (so not just from poor defenseless colored country's..). They have done this with the war of cheap labor and look how it's economy has grown as a result.

    American international affairs is completely indiscriminant. They've took from who ever they could be it militarily or economically and limited anybody they could not (Russia). Americas internal affairs is a cluster fuck. The racism is real I don't question it, but it's blown far out of proportion. What I personally think is happening in America now is less about racist laws and blatant high populace discrimination as it once was and more about cultural problems that gve birth too, flaming old fires. African Americans (ofc not all) for example are still gang banging, selling drugs, shooting each other and then pumping violent rap music saying it's all because of the white man. Worse of all they seem to actually like that life style, they enjoy people fearing them or the attention they get for ''the hardship'', like they want to get shot just so they can brag they are gangster. Further more, every African American comedian I have ever watched regardless of what country he is touring tells a cringey race joke. They just don't realize that when not surrounded by like minded African Americans (again not all) who think every single white man is going to shoot him.. that paranoid bs does not fly in other civil country's. Watch those comedians, listen to the awkward polite laughs those jokes get.. I've even seen it from white audience in your own country.

    Obviously America was initially set up to favor white men. That still shows in heritage, land ownedge etc and a lot of America is still divided in areas/states by the days of segregation, that shit is complex and will take time. England had this issue dating back some 80 years but over time races began to integrate more peacefully, made a hell of a lot easier due to the fact we were not off the tail end of brutal slavery at that point and have a far more adaptable nation (still a lot of cunts ofc). That's why I believe African Americans need to drop all cultural ties of negative attitude, forgive the past.. and culturally move on. It's true white men facilitated the start of those negative cultures, and not just gangster like activity. It is those African Americans who still choose to push those cultures that are a large part of the continuing problem. Racism will still exist ofc, but pushing the race card at every single possibility is simply not helping. It is frustrating white people and reinforcing to young black people they have something to fear of white people, the enemy.

    The gun culture in America from my outside opinion is the biggest demon in vicious cultural circles of all races. It empowers the crack jobs of what ever group (including the cops) to inflict massive damage and set off the next circle of hate and paranoia. I believe the gun issue is what has made social progress in America so slow.

    Everybody who voted trump is considered a nut case, yet, when Trump won a large number of violent attacks took place and protests broke out to oppose a democratic vote. Perhaps the real issue here is a country rotting at the core, devouring all but one culture. Pick one of many sides, be it race or establishment, then religiously hate every one else. I don't know if a single word exists for that.

    Sorry man, stoned and felt like ranting some off planet views
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  10.  
    ttystikk

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

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  11.  
    StonerCol

    StonerCol Well-Known Member

    There is/was a phrase said about the US: Everything is bigger in America. I think that is definitely true when it comes to the amount $'s being corruptly 'earned'.
     
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  12.  
    ttystikk

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    TL;DR

    Ted Kaczynski is proud of you.
     
  13.  
    ttystikk

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    A saying widely attributed to Winston Churchill; 'America can be trusted to do the right thing- after all other alternatives have been tried and exhausted'

    That process seems to take longer than ever these days.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
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  14.  
    StonerCol

    StonerCol Well-Known Member

    I think we are slowly edging toward the tipping point. The point at which the masses will start to wake up and realise what a total clusterfuck our politicians really are.
    When I was a kid there was a glib saying about religion "Religion is the biggest cause of war on the planet." I think that actually we should replace "religion" with "politicians." They are a disease that we need to find a cure for.
     
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  15.  
    ttystikk

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    Them and transnational corporations.
     
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  16.  
    StonerCol

    StonerCol Well-Known Member

    Yes definitely. Although politicians have the power to control those corps. The power but not the will.

    What I am finding in many of these discussions is a common theme of money in politics; how our parties/politicians are funded. Whether it is unions and their leaders or corporations. Neither of which are elected but hold power, in the form of money, over the politicians and therefore the electorate. I'm sure that many people underestimate the effect that the way politics is funded has on our society.
    Taking all money out of politics except for State funding would be a revolutionary way forward. It shouldn't be an economic arms race. We shouldn't allow corps. like Facefuck and Twatter to be a part of the cycle whereby they make massive profits from each election.
    If we had a system that gave for example $0.10/£0.10 per million people of State money for an election campaign - either in total or per Party - that would make a level playing field. Because it would be public money there would be greater transparency and accountability for how that money is spent. It would also mean that Facefuck and Twatter don't get carpet bombed with ads. that increase their income. The obvious effect would be that private individuals cannot install their preferred candidate by throwing money at the election. Money that is often avoided taxation.
    It should also be a case where for example money for a UK election cannot be paid to foreign owned corporations such as Facefuck or Twatter or indeed the foreign owned newspapers or TV stations. All the State money should have to stay in country which will be recycled back into the UK economy rather than overseas corps.
    Normal everyday spending by political Parties should be along similar lines. Give them a fixed amount per year from public funds based upon the membership of the Party. The bigger the Party or the number of votes they get and the more money they get to run their activities. A bad Party would get less money. The better their policies, the more membership a Party would have because more people would vote for that Party. Make it so that if people want to financially support a Party via public funds then they have to join that Party. They just simply have to register their name against a Party as their preferred receiver of that individuals public money allocation - the $0.10/£0.10 I mentioned at the beginning.
    Fixing the current situation in a similar way to the above would revolutionise politics, making it more transparent and accountable, not to mention better value for money.

    Ofcourse none of this will happen because it makes power-grabbing more difficult and a politician loves nothing more than to grab power.
    I think it is clear that far from being enablers of change our politicians are barriers to it. THAT is the real battle we need and should be fighting. Make politicians fight for your 10 cents/pence and things will change for the better dramatically.
     
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  17.  
    jonsnow399

    jonsnow399 Well-Known Member

    Why quote a racist scumbag like Churchhill, who rarely did the right thing?
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  18.  
    StonerCol

    StonerCol Well-Known Member

    Why not? Quoting what somebody said is not a problem. Or can we only quote people who somebody else has deemed not to be racist/sexist/homophobic?
     
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  19.  
    jonsnow399

    jonsnow399 Well-Known Member

    Would you look to Stalin or Hitler for words of wisdom?
     
  20.  
    StonerCol

    StonerCol Well-Known Member

    Depends on what they said. During discussions I've often quoted the phrase on the entrance to Auschwitz "Arbeit macht frei."
    A quote is a reference point not a tacit agreement with the phrase or who said it.
    I think you're just looking for an argument.
     
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