Any updates on MMJ and Guns

Can a cardholder be seen on a NICS check? Can the CPL board see if you are a patient?

Has any progress been made in mmj cardholders having the right to own firearms?

Can a caregiver have a gun if he is not a patient but has a caregiver card?

please fill me in.

Nothing new? I can't believe people aren't talking about these issues.

These aren't state issues, they're federal. In the eyes of the feds there are no cardholders, just drug users and dealers...

AMENDMENT II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

I believe there is reasoning behind the simplicity of wording here. The Bill of Rights dictates what a government CANNOT do.

Cannabis shouldn't be any different than prescription drugs. I can pop opiates and have a cpl. I can drink and have one. Shit I can even have a morphine drip and have my guns.

Makes no sense

its a felony to have a firearm while growing, instant felony and you will be charged with possession of a firearm while committing a crime and it will be the charge they plea down. "we will dismiss the weapons charge for a plea to lesser charge of manufacturing with intent to deliver."
Our guns are in the sheds and the clips are in the dresser.

It was our forefathers clear intent to rule by laws rather than men when establishing this country. These laws like the Bill of Rights were intentionally clear and simple to justify ignorance of the people NOT acceptable as a defense. Today 1 in 300 of our population are lawyers employed by the grey area they have created taking an unjust amount of resources from their community for literally a parasitic service IMO.

Here's an interesting article. Especially the part where it talks about unconstitutional federal gun regulations. I hope our state follows through on these bills.

http://m.freep.com/localnews/article?a=2013302270109&f=1232

I thought the SC ruled we could have them. I'm at work but if no one finds the article before i get off I'll find it and post it.

Please do!

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2011/10/feds_say_medical_marijuana_and.html

GENESEE COUNTY, Michigan — With proper approval, Michigan residents legally can grow a potent strain of G13 Haze marijuana.

Or they can purchase an AR-15 semiautomatic rifle.

Just not at the same time.

Federal authorities say licensed medical marijuana users can’t own a gun. A September letter from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives advises gun dealers that knowingly selling to a medical marijuana user is against the law, even in one of the 17 states with a medical marijuana law on the books.

Anyone who legally buys a gun fills out ATF Form 4473, which asks whether the person is “an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance.”

If a medical marijuana user answers no, he or she has broken the law, according to the feds.

If the answer is no and the firearms dealer knows the person uses medical marijuana — or has “reasonable cause to believe” so — but sells the gun anyway, then both parties have committed a crime.

Medical marijuana advocates call the measure a violation of rights.

“It really just reiterates the federal government’s policy of discrimination,” said Jeremy Rupinski, director of the Genesee County Compassion Club.

“We don’t have this policy for prescriptions or for other homeopathic medicines.”

Others think the stance is common sense.

“I wouldn’t want to sell them a gun and be responsible for them shooting somebody,” said Randy Bullock, owner of Bullock’s Guns & More in Genesee Township.

Bullock said he doesn’t mind the times he’s had to turn customers away because they smell of marijuana or admit to using the drug medically.

“I’m not losing my license over a thing like that.”

But gun dealers aren’t required to ask specifically about medical marijuana and, unless misused, it’s not something that would come up on the criminal background check.

Bullock suspects some medical marijuana users lie and are able to buy guns.

But unless they smell like pot or a medical marijuana card falls out of the customer’s wallet, what’s a dealer to do?

“I’m not going to sit here and interrogate them,” he said.

Both medical marijuana and firearms have widespread popularity in Genesee County. As of August, the state had approved 6,800 medical marijuana applications from residents here. And there were 15,000 people registered to carry a concealed weapon, which doesn’t even account for all gun owners.

The issue of medical marijuana and guns has come up at the Genesee County gun board, a collection of local law and government officials charged with deciding who can carry a concealed weapon.

This year, the board decided — by a 2-1 vote — to allow a 36-year-old medical marijuana user to keep his concealed weapon privileges. Those voting to allow the license did so based on assurance from the U.S. attorney’s office that it had no intention of prosecuting CCW holders violating federal law.

The Sept. 21 letter from the ATF was “really just a clarification” of the agency’s stance on the issue, said ATF spokesman Drew Wade.

The department had received several inquiries from licensed firearms dealers claiming customers were using medical marijuana cards as forms of identification.

Though medical marijuana is illegal under federal law, users operate under the assumption that U.S. Department of Justice officials will make good on their pledge not to prosecute users.

But gun dealers may not be as willing to dance around the law.

“Dealers are heavily regulated by the ATF, and that’s their livelihood. So gun dealers try to be extremely cautious to be sure they’re on the right side of the line,” said Steve Dulan, a board member of the Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners and a professor of firearms law at Cooley Law School.

Though the coalition doesn’t have a position on the issue of medical marijuana users owning guns — and abstains from doling out legal advice to gun owners — Dulan said the issue could end up getting hammered out in the courts, and people could argue their Second Amendment rights are being violated.

Just don’t expect gun dealers to start bucking ATF advice anytime soon.

“It’s not likely that you’re going to get one of these folks essentially volunteer to be a test case,” Dulan said.

Rick Thompson, editor of Michigan Medical Marijuana Magazine, said the directive is an attempt to slow the spread of medical pot laws to other states. At least seven new states could see the issue on a ballot in 2012, he added.

“It’s a scare tactic,” he said.

Thompson and Rupinski said they don’t expect feds to start investigating or prosecuting users just because they own guns.

“This is not a proactive policy. They are not going to come to your home to see if you have guns,” Thompson said.

http://emichssdp.org/2012/02/19/hazy-laws-leave-medical-marijuana-patients-dazed-and-confused/

HAZY GUN LAWS LEAVE MEDICAL MARIJUANA PATIENTS AND CAREGIVERS STRIPPED OF RIGHTS

The second amendment to the U.S. Constituion, as part of the Bill of Rights, is the “right to keep and bear arms” has been under attack by prosecutors in almost all states with a medical Marijuana program, currently 17 last I checked.

In the supreme court case District of Columbia v. Heller the supreme court found that the carrying of firearms for self defense was implied in the second amendment, further in McDonald v. Chicago this right was extended to the states by way of the 14th amendment.

Today, this constitutionally protected right as applied to Medical Marijuana users is under attack all over the United States. An Alcohol Tobacco and Firearm’s memo said “federal law prohibits unlawful users of controlled substances — including state certified medical marijuana patients — from possessing firearms or ammunition.” Despite their apparent ‘clarification’ a memo from the ATF doesn’t hold the up in court, this just tells you how they will attempt to enforce the law.

Just to purchase a gun, a Medical Marijuana user must bypass a question on the requisition form regarding marijuana. Making it impossible to obtain a handgun without defrauding the seller. One article on tumblr does mention a potential ‘loop hole‘ in the ATF wording, which ask if the person applying for a gun is “addicted” to marijuana.

It remains to be seen as to whether or not this tumblr defense would hold up in court, but what I do know is that the Michigan prosecutors have been really using this gun-marijuana conflict to stick people with mandatory two year sentencing for violation of gun laws.

The Safe Access Now, an organization ‘dedicated to meeting the immediate needs of medical cannabis patients and their providers while creating a movement to promote safe and legal access,’ had the following recommendation:

Firearms can also result in harsher sentencing. “Any person who, during any drug trafficking crime for which the person may be prosecuted in a court of the United States, uses or carries a firearm, or who, in furtherance of any such crime, possesses a firearm, shall:

Be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 5 years;
If the firearm is brandished, not less than 7 years; and
If the firearm is discharged, not less than 10 years.”
Although the U.S. Constitution confers a right to carry firearms, we have seen many patients face extreme legal consequences for having firearms in addition to plants. ASA strongly advises that if you are a medical marijuana patient, do not carry or keep firearms on your property.

Heating up this debate is the fact that Michigan is a state full of hunters, and has historically supported gun rights laws very strongly. Stories have indicated that DNR aggressively prosecuted Medical Marijuana patient/hunters.

This confusion leaves medical marijuana patients and caregivers in a sticky and stinky situation (in a bad way), to either play it safe and allow themselves, particularly for caregivers who may be growing thousands of dollars worth of marijuana for patient consumption, to remain in great danger or to risk mandatory sentencing and keep their weapons. The fact of the matter is, being a caregiver does place you at risk. Caregivers are actively victimized. This risk holds especially true for caregivers with poor ventilation, leaving a pungent skunk scent to precipitate from your house. I imagine this fear holds true for those in lower socioeconomic environments, where tough economic times drives some criminals to extra bold activity.

Despite all the seemingly looming struggle maintain second amendment rights, some rays of sun have pierced the clouds in the form of state supreme court cases out of Oregon and Rhode Island. The Oregon supreme court found “issuing gun permits to medical marijuana patients would not violate the federal Gun Control Act based on Oregon’s own concealed handgun licensing laws.” After an appeal, the US Supreme court decided not to hear this case, affectingly supporting the Oregon supreme court decision until further notice. Similarly a Rhode Island judge said, “this is a poorly drafted statute, and I don’t think… a defendant ought to be criminally liable for inartful draftsmanship,” further rejecting the prosecutors appeals to continue the case on gun charges alone. While these cases alone don’t constitute enough material to save your ass from 2 mandatory years in jail, the likely result of a conservative judge, they do constitute some jurisprudence supporting your argument in court, should you be caught with dope and a firearm in Michigan.

This article hasn’t even touch the legality of consumption of marijuana and proximity to a weapon, an even stickier situation or CCW’s and Marijuana. Basically, if you don’t want to become Michigan’s next landmark Medical Marijuana case, or have alot of money for good quality defense, be EXTRA careful with your weapons, keep them locked up or at a different location than your medicine. Caregivers, keep your doors locked, and the smell of your crop properly ventilated, Michigan leaders under this Schuttee totalitarian regime DON’T care about your constitutional rights or your need to protect yourself.

Stay safe.

I'm sure a lot of cpl holders don't have their mmj card and smoke herbs. So if they get in a shooting situation whats worse....having your mmj card or not having it?

Agreed I know other states allow it see winters vs Willis

Ya i would think this would only considered on a Federal level.. if i were you i would not have guns in your house if growing. If the Feds do come the charges will be 25 mandatory years for each gun after the first one. Here is an example, http://reason.com/blog/2012/11/29/montana-medical-marijuana-grower-faces-8

Well I don't worry about cops coming around. I live like the average joe. Stay out of the spotlight and you will stay invisible. I don't draw attention to myself or my surroundings. So I never worry about getting popped.

JUst because i have my Medical card dosen't mean i smoke weed, does being 21 mean you drink alcohol, or does having your drivers licinecs mean that you are driving. Cpl says if i WANT to i can carry a gun but dosn't mean that i always carry, it means i can. just a thoght

That's a very valid point.

Now useing your GUN with CPL and smoking a joint , when shooting people. will most definly get you in BIG trouble.,

Section 333.26424 Sec. 4. (a) A qualifying patient who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the qualifying patient possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana, and, if the qualifying patient has not specified that a primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility. Any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots shall also be allowed under state law and shall not be included in this amount.

medical/420 said:

JUst because i have my Medical card dosen't mean i smoke weed, does being 21 mean you drink alcohol, or does having your drivers licinecs mean that you are driving. Cpl says if i WANT to i can carry a gun but dosn't mean that i always carry, it means i can. just a thoght

Click to expand...

I dont smoke, and I have a card.