testiclees
Well-Known Member
absolutely agree about rh and indoors but rh and power i dont believe there is a causal relationship.
Apache AT600 led vs 1000w HPS Blue Dream Grow
- Thread starter Greengenes707
- Start date
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
Supra has always had a good intuition to keep canopy temps down. Leaf temperature is more important for plant growth than ambient persay. With hps directly effecting easier with it's IR means lower ambients to combat that. While with leds There is limited radiant heat and a higher ambient will be needed to get ideal leaf temps(<80˚). WIth transpiration going on leaf temps can be lower than ambient.
And then we can think of the relationship between light, co2, and temps...and nutrients for that matter. If one rises...the rest need to rise as well to be to keep up and gain all the benefits from any of them individually.
So there are a lot of variables that will effect things from yield to quality. And in a non controlled or limited controlled environment, they will have to be work with. But if you have a perfect sealed room, with sufficient AC and CO2...you can get the best of both worlds. I don't. I run fresh air, and am subject to ambients ability. So co2 helps me deal very well when I can close it down and maintain ok temps with no ac. But a full AC's setup would keep things in the ideal zones anytime of year.
In that side by side temps were low 80's and hps was 25% and led 27%...so danks can be grown in higher temps.
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I count full wattage in both lights... led fans, drivers, and dissipation then hid bulb and ballast
And then we can think of the relationship between light, co2, and temps...and nutrients for that matter. If one rises...the rest need to rise as well to be to keep up and gain all the benefits from any of them individually.
So there are a lot of variables that will effect things from yield to quality. And in a non controlled or limited controlled environment, they will have to be work with. But if you have a perfect sealed room, with sufficient AC and CO2...you can get the best of both worlds. I don't. I run fresh air, and am subject to ambients ability. So co2 helps me deal very well when I can close it down and maintain ok temps with no ac. But a full AC's setup would keep things in the ideal zones anytime of year.
In that side by side temps were low 80's and hps was 25% and led 27%...so danks can be grown in higher temps.
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I count full wattage in both lights... led fans, drivers, and dissipation then hid bulb and ballast
Red1966
Well-Known Member
No, that's not what we are trying to do. They would never have made blurple lights if we were.
thisusernameisnottaken
Well-Known Member
Of course dank can be grown in very hot climate the best dank you will find in the most hot climates.
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
Of course...what was I thinking getting into explaining the different factors...of course. Next time I'll just pm you and ask you to answer everything. Of course.
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
What a thread. So many classic good contributing RIU members...wish the crew was still around. Miss you boys.
Chronikool
Well-Known Member
Even us moronz are still about....
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
I get what your refering to.
The conditions where that of a high performance grow room. lower to mid 80f's and 60+RH with CO2.
Feed and what ever else needed adjustment per the light used(nutrients, feed times,canopy control)...were adjusted accordingly.
They pulled 1.3-1.4g/w on 9 bars over 4 x12' in that first run. ~2.2lb's per 4x4 used and were blown away.
Then they put them up to a room of CMH's and said the PLC's "crushed" them I was told, but never made it to the facility. Only backing I have that they did better overall than cmh, was an order for 112 plc6's, that has already been delivered so they are satisfied. I don't believe they were running the CMH on correct spacing to say crushed. But that's what they said.
Still trying to climb that "RIU latter" are we.Even us moronz are still about....
I just ran into @foreverflyhi on IG, I saw you follow him already. And I also saw @chaz bolin on facebook this morning.
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OneHitDone
Well-Known Member
Since Apache is being pulled from the grave of RIU, maybe this would be the place to continue the discussion on the Apache products and why as one of the "front runners" in the led game they are choosing to avoid COB led for horticultural usage.
If COB is the cat's meow, why is a company held in such high regard in the horticultural and scientific community not jumping on boars?
If COB is the cat's meow, why is a company held in such high regard in the horticultural and scientific community not jumping on boars?
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
Red/White LED combo is more effective for flowering plants?
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
They didn't avoid them. They have simply used and filled current product molds and gerbers to their fullest. They haven't done or changed anything new since the at600 that was released in 2012. And the only change from the at120 to that was a chip change. Last time I talked to him, he wasn't even into the 219c's yet and still using b's. The lenses they use were designed for the nichia 183 that was in the at120, not the 3535 nichia 219 that they actually use now. They still have yet to upgraded to the hlg(claims it's too expensive) and are using sub 90% effent drivers.
Boards,chips, housing, heatsinks, lenses, drivers, wiring setups...all the exact same since 2011. And still have original stock of certain things.
They don't have a bar light, and want to sell PLC bars on their site. Is that avoiding cobs?
Also feel free to go to cree xlamps, and change the "application" to "horticulture"...and see that every single cxb is on the list.
http://www.cree.com/led-components/products/xlamp-leds/?applications=31
A white phosphor led is the same as another white phosphor led no matter where it is coming from.
300 radiant watts from any COB, xpg3, nichia219c, samsung 561c, 301b, lumiled...any white phosphor chip you can think of... is 300 radiant watts of white no matter where or what it came from.
Choice in diodes is exactly that... A CHOICE. A choice that manufactures make in order to make and balance(or not balance) price to performance.
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OneHitDone
Well-Known Member
Please do be sure to update us when that happens....
On multiple occasions I was told directly from Apache Tech that COB is something they are pursuing for "Commercial Aquarium" customers but don't see a place for it in Horticultural lighting.
Maybe they have changed their stance. Let us know if that does happen
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
I have talked to Andre(owner of Apache...#1 out of their 2 employees) 3 times just this this week. I have been personal friend with him for 10 years.
You get emails from a company standing behind their position and product.
I will say it again...what form white led is used is a choice.
Their choice they believe is valued at $2000-$2500 and puts out an unknown amount of light because they won't sphere or goniometer test their lights. Estimations put it at ~2.1umols/j with best bin.
You can get 2.1 lights from multiple validated and proven companies these days...of the same spectrum,similar, or pure white all for $500-1000 less per fixture(~$1350-$1500)
AT lights are great. 3 minor tweaks and they would be the best on the market near hands down. But at over $2000, they are not in their current state(or even after tweaks) it's never going to fly or be viable. Even at the $1500 price point of the other options, it's too much.
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Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
All LEDs are over priced for the amount of photons per light they give.
In all scenarios the same amount of photons could be acquired for less.
Also LED spectrum is not desirable, there are much better options out there.
When you talk figures like 2.1umols/j you don't factor in the lack of spectrum these lights possess which makes them significantly less effective than lights with less umol/j output but a much more desirable spectrum (one that has IR to heat leaf temps) you are doing exactly what blackdog/ pled, advanced , lighthouse hydro, and other shitty blurple companies did when they first came out, you over inflate or intentionally mislead people so they buy your products.
Also how did you only get 650 grams with a 1000w hps, that's what i am getting with a 600w hps....
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ganjamystic
Well-Known Member
650g / 600W = 1.08gpw... you can find various growmau5 grows on youtube where he gets 1.39, 1.55, 1.42, 1.69+ gpw with his various DIY led builds... how can you say a spectrum capable of producing significantly higher gpw than you get with hps "is not desirable"... you don't desire higher yields?
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
Over priced per photon and the spectrum isn't desirable. And i am not growing for yield i grow mostly all OG's and cookie strains.
I don't desire to pay more to get lesser results.
I have my share of LEDs and they are not something i would continue to buy more of, they just aren't all they are hyped up to be.
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ganjamystic
Well-Known Member
again, why is a spectrum that is capable of yielding more grams per watt than your 600W hps not desirable to you?
why would you not be willing to pay a little more up front for a light that's capable of yielding more bud of the same or better quality?
how can getting more grams of top quality herb per watt of electricity used be considered "lesser results"?
ganjamystic
Well-Known Member
@Yodaweed, here are some random examples of led grown bud (from sixstrings led cob builds thread on another forum). do these plants look like they were grown under a spectrum that "isn't desirable" to you, honestly?
anyone else think these pics show example of herb grown under a less than desirable spectrum??
anyone else think these pics show example of herb grown under a less than desirable spectrum??
Getgrowingson
Well-Known Member
Don't bother man he loves shoving those hid bulbs up his bum. I use them too along with many other lighting styles but he just loves the de bulbs so much so he can share with his bum buddy. And loves the se hps because the bulge tickles the right spot. Never seen someone who has so much time to make himself look so stupid. Not mad either bro lol just like pointing out how your brain doesn't work very well and need to lay off the hard stuff. And putting things in your bum isn't the answer to being a lonely boy