Bad News About LED vs HPS

whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
mauricem00 said:
you forgot to factor in ballast lost which is factored into T5 ratings. a 315 cmh produces 33000 lumens and draws 355 watts from the wall. (93LPW) an f54 T5 energy miser produces 4800 lumens and draws 49 watt with a program start ballast (98 LPW) and only 46 watts with an instant start ballast (104 LPW) some people have had bad luck with T5s because they use low quality ballast and bulbs from a hydro or aquarium shop. with commercial grade ballast and bulbs lights can last years. supermarket. box stores like walmart or home depot. factories and warehouses use a lot of bulbs and replacing them is expensive with labor and parts cost so if they did not have a long life they would not be cost effective.a 6 bulb fixture works well in a 2ft by 4 ft tent. a 6 bulb T5 produces a ppfd of 551 using 324 watts of power (529 PPFD at 294 watts using energymiser) . using 2 150 watt HPS lights to get uniform coverage produces a ppfd of 531 at 330 watts. in a 4ft by 4 ft tent a single 600 watt HPS would provide a slightly higher PPFD than T5s (4% higher) for the same input power using standard bulbs. for a large commercial grow 1000 watt DE CMH bulbs are the best option but for a small PU closet grower T5s work well. comparing hydro shop lights is like comparing cheap led grow lights from E-BAY to HPS or CMH. commercial grade T5s are a different breed.just like COBs or 561 strip lights are a different breed from $50 ebay leds http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLOOMSPECT-300W-600W-LED-Grow-Light-Full-Spectrum-Hydroponic-Veg-Bloom-Plant/302341440316?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&var=601176440232&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649. ppfd was calculated using an apogee conversion table https://www.apogeeinstruments.com/conversion-ppf-to-lux/ a couple years ago TRW developed a white led for use in photography that came close to natural sunlight. it used a UV LED to drive a tri phosphor mix. unfortunately UV led are still inefficient and expensive so these diodes were expensive and only produced 50LPW. but it's just a matter of time before someone develops a cheap highly efficient UV diode and this may be the future of horticultural LEDs but that technology is not here yet.
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I use 4ft 8 bulb t5 in a 2x4. It works.

Going led. Actually led and t5. I have 200 watt citizen unit on the way. Ill use it and 4 t5 bulbs.

I've played around with most every light except the new cobs. I still find myself preferring bud grown with t5 with mixed spectrum and uv.

Is it placebo? Don't know. I just know its what I prefer.
 
mauricem00

mauricem00

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
I use 4ft 8 bulb t5 in a 2x4. It works.

Going led. Actually led and t5. I have 200 watt citizen unit on the way. Ill use it and 4 t5 bulbs.

I've played around with most every light except the new cobs. I still find myself preferring bud grown with t5 with mixed spectrum and uv.

Is it placebo? Don't know. I just know its what I prefer.
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you are not alone. one dispensary that I'm aware of grows with T5s because their customers prefer it.many patients feel that plants grown under T5s or CMH taste better and is more potent. white LEDs may be a good way to add orange and red to your spectrum for flowering. I have done test grows with LEDs including cobs but have not found that magic formula that make them perform as well as some claim here.the agromax UV plus bulb was developed to supplement HPS and should help with leds as well. I think COBs are obsolete and being replace with arrays of small diodes like the bridgelux eb strip, samsung 561 strip and quantum boards. with cool white T5s in the mix you may not have the problems with CAL-MAG deficiencies. just keep the UV in the mix. have fun figuring out how to keep your LEDs 18 inches from the plants and your T5s 6 inches from the plants.I struggled with this question for a long time but EB strips driven soft can be placed closer to the plants.I tried attaching them to the wings on my T5 fixture with thermal paste and driving them at 500ma and was able to place the light 9 inches away from the plant with no sign of heat stress-I flower in a 6ft by 2 ft closet so using T5s as side lighting does not work for me.
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
mauricem00 said:
.I think COBs are obsolete and being replace with arrays of small diodes like the bridgelux eb strip, samsung 561 strip and quantum boards
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its the exact same technology

if you dont like cob spectrum or efficiency theres nothing that the phosphor white single diodes will change
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
CobKits said:
i was on here as BOBBY_G for about a year before i started CobKits (the business) 8/1/16

was gonna keep BOBBY_G for personal use and have CobKits user usable as a business resource for myself or anybody working for me to answer questions

i had both accts for less than a week before sunni told me thats not allowed

BOBBY_Gs last post was over a year ago on 8/7/16



yup and have never once denied it. you think people call me "Cobby" is a coincidence?

in your defense Yoda its good to see you get something right for once

and that ancient post by greengenes you dug up is hilarious in its own right as he 'socked' between his acct and tags420 for quite a long time

there are people here to share information and learn
and there are people who are here to start shit and try to feel important

how many users are ignoring you i wonder? i wouldnt have seen your post had abiqua not quoted it
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I have no dog in the fight but I think that rule is silly.

It makes sense to me that a person be allowed a personal account and one separate for business if they pay.

There are sub forums here that a person may want to joke around in and not have the post tied to their business.
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
mauricem00 said:
you are not alone. one dispensary that I'm aware of grows with T5s because their customers prefer it.many patients feel that plants grown under T5s or CMH taste better and is more potent. white LEDs may be a good way to add orange and red to your spectrum for flowering. I have done test grows with LEDs including cobs but have not found that magic formula that make them perform as well as some claim here.the agromax UV plus bulb was developed to supplement HPS and should help with leds as well. I think COBs are obsolete and being replace with arrays of small diodes like the bridgelux eb strip, samsung 561 strip and quantum boards. with cool white T5s in the mix you may not have the problems with CAL-MAG deficiencies. just keep the UV in the mix. have fun figuring out how to keep your LEDs 18 inches from the plants and your T5s 6 inches from the plants.I struggled with this question for a long time but EB strips driven soft can be placed closer to the plants.I tried attaching them to the wings on my T5 fixture with thermal paste and driving them at 500ma and was able to place the light 9 inches away from the plant with no sign of heat stress-I flower in a 6ft by 2 ft closet so using T5s as side lighting does not work for me.
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I use all Agromax bulbs.

I use 2-veg, 2-bloom, 2-pure par, 1-10,000k+uva and 1-5400k.

You can use the 10kuva bulbs full time.

I never run the t5 6 inches away. I run them about 12-15 inches. The unit I use double stacks the bulbs. Its the same width as a normal 4 bulb unit. Any closer and it burns the plants.
IMG_20170215_014655.jpg IMG_20170215_194241.jpg
Both were autos and dense.

I may use the cobs above and t5 for side lighting. Don't know yet. Ill figure it out.

Smaller chips may be the new thing but I got the cob rig for a good price.
 
OneHitDone

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
I use all Agromax bulbs.

I use 2-veg, 2-bloom, 2-pure par, 1-10,000k+uva and 1-5400k.

You can use the 10kuva bulbs full time.

I never run the t5 6 inches away. I run them about 12-15 inches. The unit I use double stacks the bulbs. Its the same width as a normal 4 bulb unit. Any closer and it burns the plants.
View attachment 3995067 View attachment 3995068
Both were autos and dense.

I may use the cobs above and t5 for side lighting. Don't know yet. Ill figure it out.

Smaller chips may be the new thing but I got the cob rig for a good price.
Click to expand...
Which fixture are you running?
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
OneHitDone said:
Which fixture are you running?
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A durolux from Amazon. I have 3 of them. A 4ft 8 bulb, a 4ft 6 bulb and a 2ft 6 bulb.

The 2 4 footers have been running for a couple years. The 2 foot is newer and a ballast went out. Contacted the seller and new ballast was sent for free.


This is the 8 bulb one. The other two are the same. They also have models where the bulbs are spread out.

https://www.amazon.com/T5-Grow-Light-Fluorescent-Hydroponic
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
lukio said:
No way, José!

Lesson learnt.

I did have about 4lb hang drying (what an idiot) but i've literally just pulled it all down and microwaved half of it. Granted, i think that maybe 4 mins on 1000w MAY have been a touch too much, but HOLY SHIT is this weed now the Dankest of Dank, the Cheesiest of Cheese, the Smelliest of Smells, the...you get the point.

Ive got Holland AND Jamaica ringing me up, they want their HIGH GRADE back- phone is off the hook, fam.

Im going to nuke the rest but only 3 minutes this time cos i is clever, innit.

Thanks again, love as always -

Your biggest fan

Lukio

xxx
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Yeah that's my curing method, put it in the microwave. Can you read at all? Kind of a difference between curing and drying a little bit in a microwave to try it, but of course that's beyond your comprehension level, obviously.
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
mauricem00 said:
you are not alone. one dispensary that I'm aware of grows with T5s because their customers prefer it.many patients feel that plants grown under T5s or CMH taste better and is more potent. white LEDs may be a good way to add orange and red to your spectrum for flowering. I have done test grows with LEDs including cobs but have not found that magic formula that make them perform as well as some claim here.the agromax UV plus bulb was developed to supplement HPS and should help with leds as well. I think COBs are obsolete and being replace with arrays of small diodes like the bridgelux eb strip, samsung 561 strip and quantum boards. with cool white T5s in the mix you may not have the problems with CAL-MAG deficiencies. just keep the UV in the mix. have fun figuring out how to keep your LEDs 18 inches from the plants and your T5s 6 inches from the plants.I struggled with this question for a long time but EB strips driven soft can be placed closer to the plants.I tried attaching them to the wings on my T5 fixture with thermal paste and driving them at 500ma and was able to place the light 9 inches away from the plant with no sign of heat stress-I flower in a 6ft by 2 ft closet so using T5s as side lighting does not work for me.
Click to expand...
How people get all these purported cal/mag deficiencies I can't imagine. Calcium usually builds up in hydro plants to about 10x required levels. Fortunately it's not toxic so doesn't cause a problem. Too much mag actually lowers potency and mag really is toxic in excessive amounts. Maybe you mean in soil but really how does anyone not supply enough cal or mag, both being easily available from dolomite lime?
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Here's a pic of the first flower chamber, about 4' high, after the plants spend the first week of flower in the short veg chamber still in the small pots. This is about 140w of LED lightbulbs in a 3'x1.5'. I put 12 sockets in but a few bulbs are less than 14w, haven't actually totalled it all up but gotta be around 140-150w. Notice how they're light blasted at that seemingly low wattage and dense as fuck and healthy leaves all the way to the bottoms.

This shows that you can flower for the first week in small pots and with low wattage lights and then transplant to larger containers and they'll still get quite big. It also shows that the you can use about a 4' high chamber for weeks 2 through 4 of flower. You only need the tall high wattage chambers for the last 6 weeks. Letting them grow up close to the LED bulbs, and not watering all that often so they get tougher, gets them ready to move to the higher wattage chambers without burning, similar to how they could be moved from the veg chamber to this one because they had grown right up to the bulbs in the veg chamber.

 
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S

sethimus

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
I use all Agromax bulbs.

I use 2-veg, 2-bloom, 2-pure par, 1-10,000k+uva and 1-5400k.

You can use the 10kuva bulbs full time.

I never run the t5 6 inches away. I run them about 12-15 inches. The unit I use double stacks the bulbs. Its the same width as a normal 4 bulb unit. Any closer and it burns the plants.
View attachment 3995067 View attachment 3995068
Both were autos and dense.

I may use the cobs above and t5 for side lighting. Don't know yet. Ill figure it out.

Smaller chips may be the new thing but I got the cob rig for a good price.
Click to expand...
fan leaves not even dusted, color me unimpressed...
 
lukio

lukio

Well-Known Member
Oh BOB, bob bob @BobCajun !

Why dont you learn how to crawl before you try walking, eh? in the meantime you keep speed drying your herb (:

PLANK
 
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StonerCol

StonerCol

Well-Known Member
I'm no botanist but I don't believe that potency increases when dried in a microwave. Actually it is probably the opposite. All the molecules of water that get excited by the microwaves heat up until they evaporate into steam which I reckon will damage the plant/lower potency. At the very least it will surely damage the trichs.
I'd love to hear the science behind this...if there is indeed any or whether it's just plain old bullshit........
 
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