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Bridgelux EB Series Build

Discussion in 'LED and other Lighting' started by brahbbyB, Dec 5, 2016.

  1.  
    muleface

    muleface Well-Known Member

    so the larger argument here is which strips are more efficient running them at just enough power to turn on? am i getting that right? I see you are running 12 - 1 foot double strips at 100 watts total so 8.3 watts each. They are rated to run at 26 watts, so slightly less then 1/3 of there typical wattage. So the theory here is running really low increases efficiency. So to get the wattage you need over a given space you need almost 3 times the amount you would need running them at their normal wattage? But at that low of a wattage they need to be almost touching the plant, so you need a lot more of them to cover a large area.

    am i caught up now? Please correct me if im wrong on my understanding of this conversation....
     
    Sanitas Vibrationum likes this.
  2.  
    Sanitas Vibrationum

    Sanitas Vibrationum Active Member

    That is exactly what i'm doing ones I get my F564B's (2ft 72 diodes double row) - 5 of them will be driven at 1A by HLG-240H-48B and they will be attached to 2.079" heatsink from HeatsinkUSA. Each double strip will be pulling about 48W.
     
  3.  
    StreetPreacher

    StreetPreacher Member

    Thanks for the attempt :)

    The drivers are some cheap units that I pulled from a cheap chinese fixture, and it's not quite clear exactly what they're outputting :)

    They're labeled NLGI-100XC-063A, Max output 150w, and it also says "Output 12V" on the label. There were 3 of these drivers in the light, with 1 lead powering a section of the LED board, and another lead providing 12V for a case fan.

    I assumed that these drivers were providing 630mA, 12V, and a max of 150w.

    I don't think I'm getting the max light output, but the 5000k's seem bright enough for seedlings anyway, and then I guess I can get some proper 24v drivers for the 3000k strips in the flowering area :). And the strips seem to be drawing ~25w each.

    Anyway, I'll do some more testing, but it seems more likely that it's a power supply issue, and not a malfunctioning strip, thanks!

    EDIT: Yep, guess the strips were getting overloaded, I tried running a fan and the strips off of my driver and with the extra draw from the fan the strips light up continuously!
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
    Randomblame likes this.
  4.  
    Serva

    Serva Well-Known Member

    So first, like I already said, I am using 1 FT strips! They are rated 7,7w, 350mA. So with my cc driver (A Version) I can get a little more, reaching 100W draw. That‘s at +100% nominal current (156lm/w). Running them at 50% will 1. get efficiency up to 165lm/w, 2. it will give you a more diffuse light, because you need 2x strips, to achieve the wattage.

    For my flower cab I would like to get 56 strips, dimmable between 100-200W (6 sqft), but I like the new Q strips more than EB gen2, mainly because they have less diods, and are only 18mm instead of 24mm wide, allowing even a better spread :)

    I don’t want to tell what’s correct, and what’s wrong, too less knowlesge in this area, but for me, and of the maths I have done, to try to prove this, it is the best to have as many led‘s as possible. And NO, you don‘t need to be super close to the canopy. I don‘t change light in height, they are growing nicely into it (maybe loosing some efficiency). Very branchy, really uniform. Light is not being lost over distance, just spreaded. As long as you have a closed tent/cab with reflective walls, no problem of bigger light loss. I never had a better penetration btw, used t5, cmh, cobs, no hid experience though!

    Actually in my veg cab a mother was growing into my lights, I had a tough week, and no time to care for that (take cuts, get her small....), so after a week, where she was constantly touching the LED‘s! There was only one round yellow spot, where it seems, that the leaf was pressing against the light, where it was close, or touching softly, nothing happened! So I can maximize my space now 100%, because I don‘t need to fear burning, and thats lovely, when you are restricted in height!
     
  5.  
    nfhiggs

    nfhiggs Well-Known Member

    LOL - Seriously? "too powerful"?? "Proper PPFD" is simply a combination of your power (or intensity) and your height. Run them hotter and raise them up, run them softer and lower them closer. Assuming the entire grow area is covered, higher is generally more preferable, because it allows more overlap of the light coming off the emitters and is more even, plus the intensity drop below the canopy is not as steep, giving you better penetration.

    9.9W divided by 40 diodes is 0.25 W per diode. 12.5W divided by 72 diodes is 0.17 W per diode. That's LESS intensity, with MORE light emitting surface. That equals more diffuse light. And for 2/3 of the cost per diode.

    Q strips are fine, they are just not a good price - they will work just as well, but not "considerably better" than the F series. IMO, they are too expensive for the number of diodes you get.
     
    Randomblame and Serva like this.
  6.  
    Serva

    Serva Well-Known Member

    They are definitly expensive! But in my opinion you can spread out 80 diods on 4‘ (Q),while F will have 72 diods on 2‘. 25w on 2‘, or 20w on 4‘, thats the difference.

    Example:
    Covering a 2‘x2‘ tent, with 33 2’ strips (one is 18mm)
    - F series will result into nominal 825w
    - Q series will result into nominal 330w

    We know both strips are good, so I suggest for easier math a lightning of 30w/sqft. We got 4sqft, so we need around 120W + 30W for a boost, so 150W light, which we can dim down.

    Actually here is the point, where I think I am wrong! :) so F strips will be 360$, but running them at 18% (though it is not possible, because of some limit, but I have mistaken something there...) will increase efficiency. Q strips are 320$, but running them at 45% will probably result in the same efficiency as F strips. So we have 2376 vs 1320 diodes, that are 56% more diodes.

    As you know, I love as many diodes as possible, so I have to fully commit, that F strips are more awesome!

    Edit: Bridgelux EB series (gen2)
    - 25 strips (340W)
    - so 44% for 150W
    - 2800 diods (18% more than F strips)
    - but 10-20% less efficient diodes!
    - 190$ (so F strips cost 90% more!)
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  7.  
    nfhiggs

    nfhiggs Well-Known Member

    If they make a 301B based strip in the same configuration as the F series, I'll be all over those bad boys....
     
  8.  
    Randomblame

    Randomblame Well-Known Member

    Yepp, that was also my first thought when I saw the Q series.
    A bin upgrade to S7 or a successor called 561d would also be nice....
    I'm pretty sure other diodes will also benefit from the new technics used for LM301b.
    Maybe another 6 month.. Samsung is fast these days in their mid power area.
     
    Stone_Free likes this.
  9.  
    Kenny Grows

    Kenny Grows Member

    Newbie question. I'm going to be building a Veg light soon covering 2X2. I want to use 6 BXEB-L0560Z-50E2000-C-A3 (can't link yet sry), the VF is 22.1. Can i use a driver that is 24V if its CV, or is that too high? I'm probably going to get a MeanWell HLG120H-24B just to be safe though.
     
    Randomblame likes this.
  10.  
    Hydro2112

    Hydro2112 Member

    Did some experiments with respect to droop and temperatures and wanted to share results- This is for a 560mm 4000K Gen 1, might be useful information for those looking to get more information about cooling/running temps etc.

    > Room temp = 24C (75F)
    > No air circulation/forced convection (passive)
    > Temperatures measured at Tc2 and backside of module (FREE MODULE) or Tc2 and heatsink (HE heatsink)
    > Heatsink used was an anodized high emissivity heatsink (24")
    > Temp probes attached by thermal adhesive tape, data reported in *C

    > Good heatsinking ideal to run at 1.4A, gives good margin for Tc, keeping it some 5C cooler than spec'd data
    > Surprising how a free module operates well below MAX Tc even without any heatsinking. I think a lot of the generated heat is conducted off by the thick PCB traces and there is good radiation efficiency from the large area on the front side surface as part of their design
    >YMMV based on room temperatures, air circulation etc. Circulation will most definitely improve the data considerably



    upload_2017-11-11_6-48-34.png

    upload_2017-11-11_6-54-56.png

    upload_2017-11-11_6-56-31.png

    upload_2017-11-11_6-57-8.png

    upload_2017-11-11_6-57-34.png
     
  11.  
    Serva

    Serva Well-Known Member

    Randomblame explained it here:
    http://www.rollitup.org/t/bridgelux-eb-series-build.928676/page-64#post-13875671

    Do you have a led controller? Otherwise I would suggest the A version, with build in poti, because 120w = 30w/sqft as veg light seems to be too much. I am using 10w/sqft as pure veg light 14 strips/50w (2 x 2.5 ft).
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
    Randomblame and Stone_Free like this.
  12.  
    BuddyColas

    BuddyColas Well-Known Member

    Great pics and graph!

    So are you saying the free module at 1400 ma or 2x the test current of 700 ma got to a max of 54C?

    If you can, what was the voltage droop on a free module at 1400 ma?

    Thanks.
     
    Randomblame likes this.
  13.  
    Hydro2112

    Hydro2112 Member

    Correct, based on the data. For free module droop measured was somewhere b/w 0.4-0.5v. Starting voltage was 23.3 and stable between 22.9 and 22.8 (resolution of my power supply). Interestingly, numbers measured were close to what Bridgelux says they should be (0.0095/*C)
     
    BuddyColas and Serva like this.
  14.  
    Danielson999

    Danielson999 Well-Known Member

    Per our Product Manager: (Digikey)

    We don't really have a set date for bringing these new products on yet. Once they are updated in the mfg pricebook I could see us placing an order soon but do not have a definite time table for when this will occur.
     
    Randomblame and Serva like this.
  15.  
    Serva

    Serva Well-Known Member

    I preorded 3500K + 5000K 1‘ strips 24h ago, it seems, that is now what they set up. 2‘ and 4‘ also able to preorder, but only these both specs.
     
  16.  
    BuddyColas

    BuddyColas Well-Known Member

    So that is about 2ish percent droop. Not bad. If I can hold my builds to 2% or less droop then I have enough cooling.

    Please provide links to your measuring equipment. A guy can go blind trying to get a thermocouple to stay in the right spot! Thanks.
     
  17.  
    StreetPreacher

    StreetPreacher Member

    I found some 18AWG copper wire at home hardware that looks like it should work. I believe it's sold as 'lamp cord', but it's just a pair of 18awg copper wire in a white casing for 35 cents a foot.

    It's hard to believe that I used to run 90w incandescent bulbs in my desk lamp, and now you can flower plants with less power!
     
  18.  
    Danielson999

    Danielson999 Well-Known Member

    Lamp wire from what I've seen is always stranded. You can get solid copper wire from a home hardware type store but often times they don't sell anything smaller than 14 gauge or so which is why people end up ordering it online.
     
  19.  
    Serva

    Serva Well-Known Member

    Stranded ones working fine, just twist the ends, and use a screw driver to push down the connectors. That‘s how it worked best for me. But I am using a wire with silicone sheating, which is way more flexible, that one I would advise for hidden wiring.
     
  20.  
    Danielson999

    Danielson999 Well-Known Member

    Anyone who is building lights and figures they will build more in the future (which is everybody), you might as well just order some proper 18awg solid core copper wire. Stranded wire pulls out of the connectors much easier and sometimes single strands can jam and actually come back out of the poke-in connector. Personally a guy should have both types of wire because you might as well do it right the first time. Just like soldering with stranded wire is better because you have many points of contact and it creates a more solid joint. With a solid wire, all it takes is a slight bend on the wire in the wrong way and the entire wire pops loose from the solder, doesn't happen that way with stranded.
     
    CanadianDank and Serva like this.

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