Bubbleponics growing slow NOOB

NORMLnorm

NORMLnorm

Active Member
Howdy, newbie here having some issues early.
Here's a play by play of what I've done:

After germinating the seeds I put them in plugs and put into system.
It's a 13 gallons res for 3 plants in a 2x2x6 feet tent.

Water top fed 4 times daily and LED 600w 18/6.
Temperature steady at around 75-79F day/66-70 night. Ph right around 5.8 (auto).
RO water. No nutes added.
Found some light tan slime on pump hose to took out and cleaned in h202. Also added some h202 to res.
Checked roots and very tips are turning brown
Water temp has been low 70's to try to stimulate the seeds/roots. Highest was 73.9.
Once cleaned will turn on chiller to keep 68.

On Day 12, I cleaned and changed out the res, added some GH FloraDuo and then some Hydroguard.
My PH and PPM keeps climbing. I have an auto PH setup.
Starts 5.75 and climbs slowly to 6.05, then system brings it back down to 5.75. It increases .01-.04 per hour.
PPM started at 180 and increases every day.
I had removed some Res water and added fresh RO to keep around 200-250.
Chiller has been turned on and water never over 71

Day 16 since going into system
I am starting to see a lot of new white roots from all the pots now.
One plant is doing very well and shooting roots(one just about into the water), and other 2 are slow and small.

PPM still is increasing without me putting anything in. PH as well.
The only thing added was some Hydroguard 4 days after the initially adding it.

I also have some REcharge. Should I add some?


Thanks to all that replied in marules
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
roots looking good.

here are some things i'd do: one from the other thread is to shut off auto pH system for now.

stop top feeding. bring the water level in your res to about an inch or so below the netpot. let the roots search for the water. the bubbles in the water breaking the surface is all you need.

i would use just flora duo, calmg and hydroguard. target ppm would be 300 ish give or take. set ph to 5.5 in the morning and let it rise to 6.1 only adjust 2x day

switch your lights to 24/0. they don't need a dark period for veg

get the chiller running and set the temp to 65F

keep your room temps at 70 to 75F

sit back and watch mother nature at work
 
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
That is 100% too much nutes and too high temp water. it will recover but I feel it's better to just start fresh.
Been there done that..
 
NORMLnorm

NORMLnorm

Active Member
rkymtnman said:
roots looking good.

here are some things i'd do: one from the other thread is to shut off auto pH system for now.

stop top feeding. bring the water level in your res to about an inch or so below the netpot. let the roots search for the water. the bubbles in the water breaking the surface is all you need.

i would use just flora duo, calmg and hydroguard. target ppm would be 300 ish give or take. set ph to 5.5 in the morning and let it rise to 6.1 only adjust 2x day

switch your lights to 24/0. they don't need a dark period for veg

get the chiller running and set the temp to 65F

keep your room temps at 70 to 75F

sit back and watch mother nature at work
Click to expand...
Thanks rky!

Looks good so far.
The largest dropped 2-3 roots into the water and one of the small ones will prob by EOD. The other is doing better as well, just a little slower after a bad start.

Is there any particular order when adding fresh fill?
flora duo, calmg and hydroguard + RO
 
NORMLnorm

NORMLnorm

Active Member
Not sure what's happening now. Roots are looking good....
The big one looked great a couple hours ago, but now not so good.
The other 2 are looking pretty sad. I have more beans getting ready.

Water temp 70 at most (68-69 avg). Tent 72-78. 45-60% humidity
ppm 324 using FloraDuo, Calmg and Hydroguard w RO
Lights now 24hr (couple days now) and autoPH disconnected. 5.5 - 6.1
Did not add or change anything today.

Is there any particular order when adding fresh fill?
flora duo, calmg and hydroguard + RO

I've been adding Hydroguard every 4 days.

Thanks for all!

DSC00424.JPG DSC00425.JPG DSC00426.JPG DSC00431.JPG
 
Last edited:
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
NORMLnorm said:
The other 2 are looking pretty sad
Click to expand...
as long as the new growth looks good, don't be worried. pic 2 looks like crap but the small new growth in the center looks fine.

are you still using top feed? i'd stop it for now. let the medium dry out so you don't get stem rot. they will get all they need from the roots at this point

where is the water level in relation to the bottom of the net pots? pic 4 looks like it could be closer for my liking but hard to tell from teh angle of the pic

what size air pump ? how many airstones? i'd like to see way more bubbles and get that res looking like a boiling cauldron with bubbles everywhere. at the very least, put one airstone under each netpot so the bubbles are concentrated under each plant.

i would go hydroguard first, then A, let mix for a bit, then B, let mix for a bit, then cal/mg.

with RO, are you using max dose of cal/mg? i use GH calimagic at 4mL/ gal.

what ratio are you using the flora duo? i use 2:1 A/B for veg and the 1:3 for flower.

i've never used hydroguard (i run a sterile res) but i don't think you need to re-add.

i would fill up the res, let it run for a week or 10 days max, then dump and refill with brand new nutes, hydroguard and cal/mg
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
the roots on the biggest plant look perfect. you want them bright white and starting to look like a comb just as they are. the others will catch up fast enough
 
NORMLnorm

NORMLnorm

Active Member
rkymtnman said:
as long as the new growth looks good, don't be worried. pic 2 looks like crap but the small new growth in the center looks fine.

are you still using top feed? i'd stop it for now. let the medium dry out so you don't get stem rot. they will get all they need from the roots at this point

where is the water level in relation to the bottom of the net pots? pic 4 looks like it could be closer for my liking but hard to tell from teh angle of the pic

what size air pump ? how many airstones? i'd like to see way more bubbles and get that res looking like a boiling cauldron with bubbles everywhere. at the very least, put one airstone under each netpot so the bubbles are concentrated under each plant.

i would go hydroguard first, then A, let mix for a bit, then B, let mix for a bit, then cal/mg.

with RO, are you using max dose of cal/mg? i use GH calimagic at 4mL/ gal.

what ratio are you using the flora duo? i use 2:1 A/B for veg and the 1:3 for flower.

i've never used hydroguard (i run a sterile res) but i don't think you need to re-add.

i would fill up the res, let it run for a week or 10 days max, then dump and refill with brand new nutes, hydroguard and cal/mg
Click to expand...
answers to above:
Topfeed - no
Water level brought up to 1" below netcups, was 2" this morning w ppm 324
Airpump - ActiveAqua 3w, 3.7 psi dual outlet turned up to max power.
2 - 6" airstones. I have them towards opposite corners under the cups

Botan Calmg+, no prob 50% or less as this was the first time adding.
Yes. Flora Duo at 2:1

Today is a week since I added nutes and HG and 4 days for Calmg.
The smallest plant (worst looking) now has roots in the water and the last one should be by EOD(its an old bean).
The other 2 in the water are new(fresh).
They all look better this morning....sooooo...go with the flow..

Thanks Rky and ARE!
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
NORMLnorm said:
answers to above:
Topfeed - no
Water level brought up to 1" below netcups, was 2" this morning w ppm 324
Airpump - ActiveAqua 3w, 3.7 psi dual outlet turned up to max power.
2 - 6" airstones. I have them towards opposite corners under the cups

Botan Calmg+, no prob 50% or less as this was the first time adding.
Yes. Flora Duo at 2:1

Today is a week since I added nutes and HG and 4 days for Calmg.
The smallest plant (worst looking) now has roots in the water and the last one should be by EOD(its an old bean).
The other 2 in the water are new(fresh).
They all look better this morning....sooooo...go with the flow..

Thanks Rky and ARE!
Click to expand...
sounds perfect. roll one up and watch em grow. only thing you might want to consider is buying a second air pump. more air and if the first one quits you have another. equipment redundancy is always a good thing.
 
NORMLnorm

NORMLnorm

Active Member
rkymtnman said:
sounds perfect. roll one up and watch em grow. only thing you might want to consider is buying a second air pump. more air and if the first one quits you have another. equipment redundancy is always a good thing.
Click to expand...
Right on!! Already have one waiting....pump and...

Also.... added HG 4 days ago. Will go for a full fresh res later today.
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
NORMLnorm said:
Right on!! Already have one waiting....pump and...
Also.... added HG 4 days ago. Will go for a full fresh res later today.
Click to expand...
Any particular reason you are doing a rez change so soon? If things are OK in there you should just keep going. The plants are too small to have eaten much so if you are just following the directions . . . Don't.

I only change nutes after the stretch if ever and you are just throwing away good nutes if you toss them out every week. They want you to change nutes every week so you have to go out and buy more but there is no reason to follow those directions.

As my plants get bigger and I want to raise the ppm I just add more nutes in the proper proportions to get the ppm higher or to keep the levels at the target ppm.

@rkymtnman is giving you good advice. Extra air is a good thing. I run 2 - 12" airstones off a dual outlet Maxima pump per tub and if I have 2 tubs going at the same time I run 2 pumps with one line from each pump going into each tub so if one pump fails there is always one stone bubbling in each tub. Each pump will be plugged into a separate circuit so if a breaker trips, (which has never happened in the 14 years I've owned this house), one pump is running to keep things going in each tub. If you haven't already got one, get a repair kit for your pump so you can fix it right away or get a spare pump. With the dual outlet pumps one side can fail or run worse than the other as the cups develop small cracks after a while.

Re: Calmag. Go easy on that stuff. I have always used RO water for my DWC and never used it for the first 10 years. I also never saw deficiencies of Ca or Mg tho I did use epsom salts once in a while. The sulfur in epsom salts is really good to have in later flowering too as it promotes trichome development.

I wouldn't fret too much about pH. Your nutes are probably buffered to stay at the pH they work best at so if it goes up to even 6.5 and stays there then knock them down every time you top up the rez but otherwise trying to maintain a lower pH will drive you nuts and do more harm than good. I use pH Perfect nutes and never bother checking the pH at all in DWC or my soil/soilless growing.

And ditch that top feed. The pump to run it is just heating up your nutes and once roots are out of the pots and even before there is no need for top feed. I just use a turkey baster to keep the net pots wet for the first few days until the roots are showing. When topping up I will will pour the RO water thru the net pots to flush out any salts that tend to build up on the hydroton as it can burn the roots in the pots if it is in contact with them. Once the plants get a bit bigger there are no roots in the pots capable of absorbing nutrients anyway. They are just conduits for the water and nutrients that the fine feeder roots are picking up in the tub. Nice net pots too! Much better than these flimsy black plastic ones with all the tiny holes.

You're on the right track for a decent grow! :clap:

:peace:
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
OldMedUser said:
Any particular reason you are doing a rez change so soon? If things are OK in there you should just keep going. The plants are too small to have eaten much so if you are just following the directions . . . Don't.

I only change nutes after the stretch if ever and you are just throwing away good nutes if you toss them out every week. They want you to change nutes every week so you have to go out and buy more but there is no reason to follow those directions.

As my plants get bigger and I want to raise the ppm I just add more nutes in the proper proportions to get the ppm higher or to keep the levels at the target ppm.

@rkymtnman is giving you good advice. Extra air is a good thing. I run 2 - 12" airstones off a dual outlet Maxima pump per tub and if I have 2 tubs going at the same time I run 2 pumps with one line from each pump going into each tub so if one pump fails there is always one stone bubbling in each tub. Each pump will be plugged into a separate circuit so if a breaker trips, (which has never happened in the 14 years I've owned this house), one pump is running to keep things going in each tub. If you haven't already got one, get a repair kit for your pump so you can fix it right away or get a spare pump. With the dual outlet pumps one side can fail or run worse than the other as the cups develop small cracks after a while.

Re: Calmag. Go easy on that stuff. I have always used RO water for my DWC and never used it for the first 10 years. I also never saw deficiencies of Ca or Mg tho I did use epsom salts once in a while. The sulfur in epsom salts is really good to have in later flowering too as it promotes trichome development.

I wouldn't fret too much about pH. Your nutes are probably buffered to stay at the pH they work best at so if it goes up to even 6.5 and stays there then knock them down every time you top up the rez but otherwise trying to maintain a lower pH will drive you nuts and do more harm than good. I use pH Perfect nutes and never bother checking the pH at all in DWC or my soil/soilless growing.

And ditch that top feed. The pump to run it is just heating up your nutes and once roots are out of the pots and even before there is no need for top feed. I just use a turkey baster to keep the net pots wet for the first few days until the roots are showing. When topping up I will will pour the RO water thru the net pots to flush out any salts that tend to build up on the hydroton as it can burn the roots in the pots if it is in contact with them. Once the plants get a bit bigger there are no roots in the pots capable of absorbing nutrients anyway. They are just conduits for the water and nutrients that the fine feeder roots are picking up in the tub. Nice net pots too! Much better than these flimsy black plastic ones with all the tiny holes.

You're on the right track for a decent grow! :clap:

:peace:
Click to expand...

all good advice although i disagree on 2:

res changes i would do no more than 10 days. for the little cost of nutes, i'd rather know that my NPK ratios are still pretty spot on.

cal/mg: i use full dose early off since i run lower EC/ppm with my base nutes. as they get bigger and i get up to 1.0 EC range, i stop the cal/mg since the nutes are giving plenty. just seems with lower ppm's they need the cal/mg more from what i've seen
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
all good advice although i disagree on 2:

res changes i would do no more than 10 days. for the little cost of nutes, i'd rather know that my NPK ratios are still pretty spot on.

cal/mg: i use full dose early off since i run lower EC/ppm with my base nutes. as they get bigger and i get up to 1.0 EC range, i stop the cal/mg since the nutes are giving plenty. just seems with lower ppm's they need the cal/mg more from what i've seen
Click to expand...
When using RO water there is no mineral build up from tap water so less nute changes are needed. Even with tap water you can keep track of how much water you use to top up and do a change once you have added back as much water as your system can hold so you don't get toxic salts buildup.

I've done a side-by-side grow with two tubs, 20 plants each, where one tub got two complete changes and the other one didn't get changed at all and both were near identical in growth and yield so I know frequent changes are not needed to get good results. Happy to send you a PM with a link to that grow journal if you like.

When I add more nutes to boost my ppm I do so in the same ratios so it stays in balance for the particular stage of growth. I'm an old, lazy, cheap-ass Scotsman so hate spending a dime when a penny will do. :D

Your calmag should be at the same levels as your EC/ppm so to give a full dose compared to a way lower dose of nutes is not really needed but certainly isn't going to screw things up. I see so many peeps on here treating calmag like some sort of wonder drug and overdosing the hell out of their plants. Everything in balance works the best no matter how you grow. Like I said I never used calmag at all the first ten years and never saw deficiencies. That was using the older AN nutes before they came up with pH Perfect and I waited 5 years before trying it and now love it to death. The CalMag I have now also has 2% N which I don't want so may try to find one with no N.

:peace:
 
firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
If youre concerned with cost why are you using AN nutes?

The nutes I run cost less than a penny a treated gallon.

I like to change out the water and rinse the roots every week.

I dont,mind it.
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
firsttimeARE said:
If youre concerned with cost why are you using AN nutes?

The nutes I run cost less than a penny a treated gallon.

I like to change out the water and rinse the roots every week.

I dont,mind it.
Click to expand...
AN nutes are very cost effective if you actually know how to feed your plants. My main cost is electricity at about $0.25/kwh.

Rinse the roots every week? Why? Are you too anal to let things go or having issues that wouldn't happen if you used better nutes?

The old adage that says you get what you pay for is quite relevant here. Garbage in, garbage out.

I've never worked out the pennies/gal ratio but because of the way I don't waste nutes by not changing I'm sure it would be close to your costs and way more effective because of their better formulations. I've used cheap nutes from back in '82 and know the difference quality makes.

I've seen a lot of your posts and most are not bad but you are are out of your depth in this.

:peace:
 
firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
OldMedUser said:
AN nutes are very cost effective if you actually know how to feed your plants. My main cost is electricity at about $0.25/kwh.

Rinse the roots every week? Why? Are you too anal to let things go or having issues that wouldn't happen if you used better nutes?

The old adage that says you get what you pay for is quite relevant here. Garbage in, garbage out.

I've never worked out the pennies/gal ratio but because of the way I don't waste nutes by not changing I'm sure it would be close to your costs and way more effective because of their better formulations. I've used cheap nutes from back in '82 and know the difference quality makes.

I've seen a lot of your posts and most are not bad but you are are out of your depth in this.

:peace:
Click to expand...
No root issues. I just like to get them rinsed once in a while. I have a hose in my room with a spray nozzle so its not much extra work. I've had healthy roots for not using bennies or sterilizers doing this, ive never done side by sides to see if its worth it. But aint broke dont fix it.

No offense meant, just saying if youre concerned about costs you are running one of the more expensive nutrient lines.

Ive ran GH, Ionic, Heavy 16, Cultured Solutions, Dynagro and I wish I threw them in the garbage sooner. You're stuck with the measurements in the bottle.

Im not using garbage either I just dont like paying for watered down nutrients with fancy labels. JR Peters is well respected in the horticulture world and isnt a "cannabis" brand of nutrients such as AN.
 
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