Build a Small-Room/Buy a Box? (Smell is the Issue)

I need some veteran advice here. I'm federally licensed so I can legally grow, but I live with family who work from home. (It is not so much a visual problem, as it is a problem of smell.)

I can easily go through 5g a day, not including edibles or anything else. I can pull 2oz per girl under 1000w of HIGH-quality medicine, with 4-5week veg cycle. (in the setup i describe below.)

I was just proposed the idea of a "self-contained" system (there's this new thing that looks like a mini fridge, totally self contained and it waters and c02 and carbon filter... everything for you, controlled by your phone), but it is very tiny, like 40" by 24". Aside from the crazy price, my worry is, will it be able to yield nearly enough for it to be worth my time? And my other worry, is it REALLY completely Smell-proof like they say?

Even something like the SuperLocker 3.0, is it really smell proof? The carbon filter in there looks SUPER TINY.

So JointMonster, why don't you just build a box, it's clearly the obvious budget-friendly answer. The last time I did, it was a 3x7ft mylar tent with a wood structure, I had TWO new carbon filters 6ft long with a 12" flange (one inside pulling air through with a 12" fan and one outside with another 10" fan pushing air through on the same line), passive intake but super, super negative air pressure, and ONA Gel in the exhaust duct. 2x 1000W. About six weeks into flower we were drowning in an intensely pungent smell of fuely-kushy-diesely-aroma, right up to patio steps Outside. [the only bad thing with the setup, was they were off brand filters, not the name brand ones. And it wasn't a sealed room lol.]

So if I did "build" a room, I have a hard time understanding how people can have a completely 100% smell proof room? If I build a small, say 3x4 room, 2x4, insulation, and drywall and caulk up the edges. Then get name brand filters, would I be able to build something "smell-proof"?

TLDR; I guess I'm looking for suggestions on the best way to go about setting up something truly smell-proof.

A smell proof room is easy. The basics are as long as your using a quality carbon filter and extracting out of the house 24hours a day then your good. Outside the house via a window or a chimney. Preferably as high as possible.
Smell is airborne, you extract your heat and smell through a filter, this creates negative pressure within the room and means air only flows one way, it enters the room via any way it can and leaves the room at a point of your choosing.
To add an extra level you can use tents within a room. My room has my veg tent, flower tent, drying chamber and clone area. The only time the room smells is during drying and the smell does not contaminate the rest of the house. Unless you rub up against your plants and walk around the house with stinking clothes, which is why i have grow room cloths which i put on only in there and take off before i exit.

Buy quality oversized filters and run fans soft so the contact time with the carbon is increased. Simple.
Don't use ona and don't seal the room.

Edit, i have not looked at these pre made units your talking about, but its just bullshit, nothing you cant do yourself with the best quality filters.

Looks like you were already on track with the negative pressure. As long as you have this there will be no smell as long as everything else is correct.

I am not understanding the filter fan setup going. This seems like what may be part of the cause as you are pushing air in instead of letting it have a passive intake? can you clarify exactly what this config is? carbon filters only have one flange so I am not understanding how you are using two carbon and two fan on the same line? take a look at my tent setup in my spare basement room here relating to another smell question www.rollitup.org/t/filter-to-fan.950965/#post-13834604

if you are going to build a room there is not need to seal it up as long as you are extracting air outside of the room with a passive intake, it will always create a negative pressure. My last 2 grows I did 10 years ago was very budget and i used panda poly film and scrap 1x4 or something line that, was very light weight 4x4x7 and never had any smell AND I always vent into the home, free additional heating as I only do it October to March.

What is the brand and rating on the carbon filters? The only carbon filters I use are CAN FILTERS (I use the CAN 50, lasts years). I just don't trust the other ones that weigh a couple of pounds. the CAN 50 has 42lbs of Carbon. The flow rating for filters matters a lot because if you pull too fast the odor will get through. This time around I am running an inline fan rated at 460CFM, the CAN 50 is rated MAX 420 CFM for extraction or 1800 CFM for scrubbing. When I did this V.S my last grow with a squirrel cage fan with ~200CFM I though I had a defective filter when I did my test. Your 12" and 10" may be overkill on the CFM.

The test is to go into the tent and smoke a joint or light a cigar and have someone on the outside smell for odor. I bought a VARIAC to control my new fan and turned it down to 88-90 volts and calculated about 360 CFM plus drag on duct/bends. Tried the test again and smell was reduces quite a bit (still some getting through but this was pure smoke!). If during flowering I start smelling I could adjust the fan to go a bit more slower. Minimum needed for my current 5x9x6.5 tent is under 100CFM (turns room air around once per minute)

Edit, sorry if i started rambling too much, let me know if you have questions. Also don't buy those overpriced boxes. You can get a tent like mine for under 300 dollars or just build a real room for under 300 or just go super budget with a wood frame and panda poly (40 bucks for 10x100 foot roll 5.5mil)

No, you are not rambling, it's great!

This is the filter I had. I had two of them. One was brand new, one was used for one cycle.
http://www.iponiczone.com/ventilation/charcoal-filters/12-inline-preactivated-carbon-filter.html
This was the fan;
http://www.iponiczone.com/ventilation/inline-fans/12-inline-fan-1185cfm.html

It was definitely negative pressure, as the poly on the sides of the tent were all being sucked in-ward slightly (light someone was stretching it over the wood tightly).

I had, new 50lb air filter -> small duct -> air-cooled hood -> small duct -> air-cooled hood -> small duct out of tent -> 12" inline fan pulling air out -> longer duct going away from room -> 50lb air filter (that was slightly used).
(The second fan was used as an intake, on a slower speed with a fan controller, I just remembered that lol, but there were still passive intake vents.)

When I say it stunk, that is a HUGE understatement. Is there simply that insanely big difference between a brand name filter and those filters I had used? (I find it hard to believe something as simple as changing filters will solve this problem.)

[on a side-note, they were seeds someone had brought over from cali (he was an official seed tester for a rather good company) and they had asked if I could separate the males and females for them, regular seeds. I got a cool strain and they got the female without hassle. This bud just happened to stink ridiculously, so maybe strain had something to do with it to? I mean, I opened the jar, took a nug out and went outside to smoke, someone came home 2 hours later and asked if I was smoking inside.] I just can't have that happen again though (the smell part lol).

Anyone else care to chime in?

Has anyone used similar filters to the ones I had, then switched over to one of the brand names ones? Was it a Big difference?
Is it just too many plants to have no smell? (10-15 females, 2oz per female)

That and I would exhaust completely outside this time, however I would still require it to be fairly clean air going out, and not stink up the neighbourhood. (Yes, I'm legal to grow, it's will be recreationally legal here very soon, but I don't want to have problems with my neighbours, we live side by side right.)

I'm not exactly a beginner grow, but I just can't understand this smell problem. (Someone who was growing for a local dispensary had helped me out with the setup originally so it was pretty decent.) My family doesn't want me to setup, because of how bad it smelled last time - it really bothered them. Maybe if I can setup a room and do that joint test BEFORE growing anything it will help convince them lol.

Joint Monster said:

Anyone else care to chime in?

Has anyone used similar filters to the ones I had, then switched over to one of the brand names ones? Was it a Big difference?
Is it just too many plants to have no smell? (10-15 females, 2oz per female)

That and I would exhaust completely outside this time, however I would still require it to be fairly clean air going out, and not stink up the neighbourhood. (Yes, I'm legal to grow, it's will be recreationally legal here very soon, but I don't want to have problems with my neighbours, we live side by side right.)

I'm not exactly a beginner grow, but I just can't understand this smell problem. (Someone who was growing for a local dispensary had helped me out with the setup originally so it was pretty decent.) My family doesn't want me to setup, because of how bad it smelled last time - it really bothered them. Maybe if I can setup a room and do that joint test BEFORE growing anything it will help convince them lol.

Click to expand...

If you're so concerned about smell, I honestly don't understand why you are even debating the filter issue. Get something big and badass, and filter the living shit out of your air. Hell, get two filters even. Think about it. If you grew 2 oz per plant at 10 plants, that's over a pound of stinky, sticky, fresh bud. That shit will reek. You need the best filtration you can get.

Make sure that there is strong negative pressure in your grow room, make sure you don't have any obvious air leaks that could allow smelly air to bypass your exhaust, and blow that clean filtered air out as high as you can. Problem solved! You will be fine.

http://canfilters.com/filters/can-filters.html

Joint Monster said:

No, you are not rambling, it's great!

This is the filter I had. I had two of them. One was brand new, one was used for one cycle.
http://www.iponiczone.com/ventilation/charcoal-filters/12-inline-preactivated-carbon-filter.html
This was the fan;
http://www.iponiczone.com/ventilation/inline-fans/12-inline-fan-1185cfm.html

It was definitely negative pressure, as the poly on the sides of the tent were all being sucked in-ward slightly (light someone was stretching it over the wood tightly).

I had, new 50lb air filter -> small duct -> air-cooled hood -> small duct -> air-cooled hood -> small duct out of tent -> 12" inline fan pulling air out -> longer duct going away from room -> 50lb air filter (that was slightly used).
(The second fan was used as an intake, on a slower speed with a fan controller, I just remembered that lol, but there were still passive intake vents.)

When I say it stunk, that is a HUGE understatement. Is there simply that insanely big difference between a brand name filter and those filters I had used? (I find it hard to believe something as simple as changing filters will solve this problem.)

[on a side-note, they were seeds someone had brought over from cali (he was an official seed tester for a rather good company) and they had asked if I could separate the males and females for them, regular seeds. I got a cool strain and they got the female without hassle. This bud just happened to stink ridiculously, so maybe strain had something to do with it to? I mean, I opened the jar, took a nug out and went outside to smoke, someone came home 2 hours later and asked if I was smoking inside.] I just can't have that happen again though (the smell part lol).

Click to expand...

so that air filter is 50lb? It should be good but that filter has zero information on CFM ratings or anything, wouldn't trust it and it costs 50 bucks less then a CAN 50. For all i know it could be stuffed with cereal.

I cant say with 100% confidence but that fan CFM is most likely 3 or more times over the maximum for that filter and the air is not getting enough contact time with the carbon. This also will deplete the filter faster.

The chain as you have setup also has a lot of potential spots where smell can enter the system. Have you looked at the post I linked? If you have it setup that way I do there is ONLY ONE potential spot for unfiltered air to enter and that is the connection of the fan to the filter, all other air that may seep out will be filtered air. Connect the fan and filter with no duct, remember the common ducting has thousands of pin holes.

Follow your system path and use common sense to see where air is leaking INTO the system (you are pulling not pushing).

Do it this way: (NO duct between fan and filter, use a fan controller to limit the CFM to under 400)

Air Direction ------->

Air filter > Fan > Duct > Hood > Duct > Hood > Duct > Out Tent

Now you said you had 2 fans and doing 2 hoods so I would look at having 2 air systems cause slowing the air too much between 2 hoods can lead to heat issues

System 1 - Odor @ 400CFM or less
Inside Tent Air filter > Fan > Duct > Out Tent

System 2 @ Full 1060 CFM
Outside Tent Fan > Duct > Hood > Duct > Hood > Duct > Out Tent

Please take a look here on how specs should be listed about filters, http://canfilters.com/filters/can-filters.html. If you really don't want to limit the CFM of the fan then look at CAN 150 which has a max CFM for exhaust @ 1200+ CFM. I am not advertising any specific brand here or anything, just what has worked for me, I couldn't trust a filter I can carry around in my backpack...

if you are going to use a fan controller on inline fans PLEASE GET A VARIAC unless you want to burn your house down.

@fn217 , I'm not debating whether or not I should buy the best filters available. I am debating whether the best filters available (Can/Mountain/Phresh) will be enough to keep the smell to nearly-unnoticeable? (Since I have never used them, I can not really compare.)

@kingtitan , Well, I don't have them now as I got rid of it after that last setup. I am now planning a completely new setup, so it's a blank slate. Your two-system configuration seems like it would be much more efficient than what I had.

I would probably go with the Can150 inside the room. And maybe one more 150 outside the room, if it is really necessary. But I'm hoping that one would be enough? (I considered Mountain because they're refillable, but I don't think I could fill it the same way the manufacturer does, so maybe just stick with Can150 and then throw it out after.)

At that time, I was not really that aware of the max cfm ratings for the filters and what the fan was pushing, so I could be somewhat at fault. I'm sure the China filter didn't help much either though....

Joint Monster said:

@fn217 , I'm not debating whether or not I should buy the best filters available. I am debating whether the best filters available (Can/Mountain/Phresh) will be enough to keep the smell to nearly-unnoticeable? (Since I have never used them, I can not really compare.)

@kingtitan , Well, I don't have them now as I got rid of it after that last setup. I am now planning a completely new setup, so it's a blank slate. Your two-system configuration seems like it would be much more efficient than what I had.

I would probably go with the Can150 inside the room. And maybe one more 150 outside the room, if it is really necessary. But I'm hoping that one would be enough? (I considered Mountain because they're refillable, but I don't think I could fill it the same way the manufacturer does, so maybe just stick with Can150 and then throw it out after.)

At that time, I was not really that aware of the max cfm ratings for the filters and what the fan was pushing, so I could be somewhat at fault. I'm sure the China filter didn't help much either though....

Click to expand...

the CAN line of filters can be refilled, not sure if its really worth it as you need a vibrating pad. I know Phresh filters are sealed but can by pryed open. not sure about Mountain but probably the same as Phresh.

If you are starting from scratch just go with the 150 and with just one air system, should be fine! My the CAN 50 has worked for 3-8 plants without problems for me with Lemon Skunk and Blue God. If you setup the way I described you will not have any odor problems.

kingtitan said:

the CAN line of filters can be refilled, not sure if its really worth it as you need a vibrating pad. I know Phresh filters are sealed but can by pryed open. not sure about Mountain but probably the same as Phresh.

If you are starting from scratch just go with the 150 and with just one air system, should be fine! My the CAN 50 has worked for 3-8 plants without problems for me with Lemon Skunk and Blue God. If you setup the way I described you will not have any odor problems.

Click to expand...

now you really have me considering two air systems lol... one for ventilation straight outside. And then just for heat... drawing air from inside, going into the tent, through the light system, out the tent and away into a different room.
..as last time, I would sometimes put the fan higher to help with the heat, but then I guess I was unknowingly, possibly pushing too much air through the filter. (Although,I am considering LED over HPS this time around.) Right now I'm just worried about odour control.

Right now, I will probably just do a Can150 -> Inline fan -> Duct right outside. And then have LEDs for lighting. And iffff I really need a Can150 -> inline fan sitting outside of the tent.
....I hope the can150 is day and night between the china filter lol.

I appreciate the advice guys! Still open to any other suggestions, but yeah, I think the above should help.