Bush Gets Away with Lies, Lies and More Lies in History-Illiterate America

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
By Larry Beinhart, AlterNet. Posted August 27, 2007.

George Bush and other Iraq War supporters have argued that if we withdraw from Iraq the result will be like the killing fields of Cambodia -- an odd comparison considering that the US has direct responsibility for that holocaust.​

George Bush -- and other Iraq War supporters -- have argued that if we withdraw from Iraq the result will be like the slaughters -- the killing fields -- in Cambodia.

Here are the facts:

  • The killing fields were real. The genocide against their own people was committed by the Khmer Rouge.
  • The Vietnamese -- the Communist Vietnamese -- were the people who went in and put a stop to it.
  • The United States then supported the Khmer Rouge.

Here's how that came to happen.

The United States got involved in the war in Vietnam in an attempt to keep South Vietnam from going communist. Which it would have if nationwide elections had been held as promised.

Cambodia is next to Vietnam. It was ruled by Prince Sihanouk. He attempted to be neutral. Both sides abused that neutrality.

The North Vietnamese send arms, support and men through Cambodia on the "Ho Chi Minh Trail" to go around South Vietnamese and American forces. They also used Cambodian ports.

The United States, which was not at war with Cambodia, officially or unofficially, secretly sent armed forces into Cambodia to interrupt North Vietnamese use of that route. In 1969, Nixon began a campaign of carpet bombing sections of Cambodia. Ultimately about 750,000 Cambodians were killed by the bombings (though the numbers are hard to verify.)

In 1970, while Sihanouk was out of the country, visiting Europe, the USSR and China, Lon Nol took over the country in a right wing coup.

There are two stories about American involvement. The first is that we supported the coup, the second (in Tom Weiner's Legacy of Ashes, The History of the CIA) is that it took the CIA and the United States by surprise. Recently declassified documents support Weiner's view.

In either case, once Lon Nol took power, the US supported him. In return, Lon Nol ended the neutrality, closed the ports to the communists and demanded that the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese leave the country, and let US forces openly, though secretly, operate in Cambodia.

There was resistance to Lon Nol. Some of it was certainly a spontaneous matter of national sentiment. Some of it was certainly fomented by various communist interests.

Sihanouk, in China, then allied himself with the Khmer Rouge, Cambodia communists, which conferred new legitimacy on them.

Civil War broke out. Lon Nol was both corrupt and inept. In spite of American financial and military support, he lost.

America left Vietnam in 1973.

The Khmer Rouge took the capital of Cambodia in 1975. They were one of the most horrendous regimes in history. They practiced a kind of class genocide, "re-educating" and murdering anyone who educated or Westernized, as well as minority groups.

In 1978, Vietnam, by then fully Communist, invaded Cambodia to put a stop to the Khmer Rouge and drive them out. They installed a more moderate and sane regime.

The United States, the UK, and China then supported the remnants of the Khmer Rouge. With their help the conflict continued for another ten years.

When George Bush, or anyone else, uses the Cambodian holocaust as a warning of what might happen if America withdraws from Iraq, remember the facts.

1. Part of the holocaust in Cambodia is directly attributable to American bombing. The 750,000 dead. (Comparable to the number of Iraqis killed by American forces in this war.)

2. The civil war that led to the victory of the Khmer Rouge came about, at least in part, because of America's support of Lon Nol.

3. The "enemy," the Vietnamese Communists, were the ones who put a stop to the Khmer Rouge.

4. The United States supported the Khmer Rouge -- after their murders, after the genocide. That support helped a civil war continue for another decade. More death, more destruction.
 

medicineman

New Member
You know the right wing spinmeisters will never accept this version. It's funny how history has a way of changing with the party in charge. I'll bet the Indians US history books are a little different than the ones the US government has used, I have talked with some Indian historians and they have a completely different view. It's all perspective, But somewhere within lies the truth.
 

FilthyFletch

Mr I Can Do That For Half
And if you follow the democratic or liberal party appearently they have short memories and dont read to many history books. There was this little war known as WW11 maybe ya heard of it.You remember that Hitler guy ? He was pretty bad he did things like make judgement for an elite super human race and to achieve this he practiced this little thing called chemical clensing where he took his own people he picked as non perfect specimens and perfected gas chambers killing 100's of thousand just for practice of his own countryman...wait this kind of sounds familiar ..oh yeah a guy named Saddaam Hussein practiced killing for genocide by gas on his kurdish people killing 100's of thousand which were found in mass graves with the intent to refine the usage for a take over as a single united arab nation known as Iraq.Lets see hitler did some stuff like invading smaller neighboring countries at first building power and money from the piladages.Hmmm that sounds familiar a certain tyrant invades the wealthy oil country of Saudi arabia in an attempt to take control of the oil fields to garner monies for more weapon development for more conquests..hhmmmm interesting isnt it so far...Back in Hitlers days he was allowed to keep doing this killing and taking more countries by force and doing this little thing called genocide of the jewish people.But wait when countries got taken over and the US stayed back saying its not our war the people of France and England cried."Where is America and her power and compasion? Why does she not help us her allies? Why would the United States stand by and watch this evil until its to late..." Guess what we took that stand and saved millions by sacraficing our countries blood and men.Men never forgotten,men who died on foreign soil why to save our banks our cars?? No to do what was right and stop an evil man from being a world emporer.We stood by watching and we could stand by no more as our allies and innocent unknowns died at hitlers hands.Now we have to hear uneducated idiots cry"Why is America in this war? This isn't thier war.Why dont they stay home and mind thier business."You wanna know why? Because if we stood by and allowed Iraq to do what it showed it planned to do and get richer and stronger in the end we would have to fight to save not only others but ourselves from take over or random missle attacks as he got richer and even more powerful.We decided this time instead of watching and waiting for it to get worse we would stand tall and proud and step up this time first and not last. We decided not to wait so it would cost millions of lives.We ended it before it could fester anymore to the point of our allies and self being destroyed by such evil intent and force.People cry we went to wars for WMA's and thier were none. We went to war as stated by our president for 3 reasons..1.The belief based on our assetment Iraq had WMA close to full production.2. Chemical genecide on the kurds..100's of thousands killed for his practice and genocide wants.The graves and bodies found..3.To remove Saddam from power and stop this from further outreaching causing harm to more innocent people for this mans cause.....Not sure where those criers come from but me where I live in America 2 out of 3 aint bad.The WMA are a thing that was to have been found but as it looks were sold at last notice to Iraq allies like Iran as Saddam knew he was done and money in bank for a man on the run is easier to move but the idea must go on.Countries like france stood by Iraq and turned its back on us why? They made millinons violating international embargos of goods and weapons parts secretly to Iraq and how do we know? The paper tracks were found,the evidence seized.Why try to stop a friend from stopping an enemy?? Money the rule of all evil.So to those who dont stand by my country my America which I luv,by the sides of all the soldiers that fight becuase they were ordered to whether they wanted to or not,those who begged for help and we gave it to then turned on us when we asked for thier return help.Fuck them as you are my enemy and I will do my part to make sure you never reap from the blood and sweat of this nation.I give no respect or even an hint of compassion for those.Our President not the most schooled or smooth of word conveance did what he as the leader of the free world was to do and fought to protect us and our world friends and to Mr.Blair I thank you for standing side by side with us and fighting with my country returning the generosity and protection we were able to offer to you in your time of need while amounts of your own people turned on you questioning Englands need to fight.To France and the others god help you if you need to be bailed out ever again....You now say Mr Bush lies?? Does he lie ?or is he trying to show a public who is now so soft and unwilling to remember this history lesson not so long ago fought by thier parents and granparents the reasons he sees us needing to be where we are at the most turbulant time in any recent presidntial administration.Like Bush the man or hate him..He took the stand on our behalf and the worlds and said "We will not be made afraid.You will not bring a world to its knees by terrostic threats.The United States will not stand for it and we will prevail!" If thats what your calling a liar then I wouldn't want it any other way..God Bless America her allies and God bless our president George W. Bush a man who has to walk with giants and handle problems I never could....
 

krime13

Well-Known Member
And if you follow the democratic or liberal party appearently they have short memories and dont read to many history books. There was this little war known as WW11 maybe ya heard of it.You remember that Hitler guy ? He was pretty bad he did things like make judgement for an elite super human race and to achieve this he practiced this little thing called chemical clensing where he took his own people he picked as non perfect specimens and perfected gas chambers killing 100's of thousand just for practice of his own countryman...wait this kind of sounds familiar ..oh yeah a guy named Saddaam Hussein practiced killing for genocide by gas on his kurdish people killing 100's of thousand which were found in mass graves with the intent to refine the usage for a take over as a single united arab nation known as Iraq.Lets see hitler did some stuff like invading smaller neighboring countries at first building power and money from the piladages.Hmmm that sounds familiar a certain tyrant invades the wealthy oil country of Saudi arabia in an attempt to take control of the oil fields to garner monies for more weapon development for more conquests..hhmmmm interesting isnt it so far...Back in Hitlers days he was allowed to keep doing this killing and taking more countries by force and doing this little thing called genocide of the jewish people.But wait when countries got taken over and the US stayed back saying its not our war the people of France and England cried."Where is America and her power and compasion? Why does she not help us her allies? Why would the United States stand by and watch this evil until its to late..." Guess what we took that stand and saved millions by sacraficing our countries blood and men.Men never forgotten,men who died on foreign soil why to save our banks our cars?? No to do what was right and stop an evil man from being a world emporer.We stood by watching and we could stand by no more as our allies and innocent unknowns died at hitlers hands.Now we have to hear uneducated idiots cry"Why is America in this war? This isn't thier war.Why dont they stay home and mind thier business."You wanna know why? Because if we stood by and allowed Iraq to do what it showed it planned to do and get richer and stronger in the end we would have to fight to save not only others but ourselves from take over or random missle attacks as he got richer and even more powerful.We decided this time instead of watching and waiting for it to get worse we would stand tall and proud and step up this time first and not last. We decided not to wait so it would cost millions of lives.We ended it before it could fester anymore to the point of our allies and self being destroyed by such evil intent and force.People cry we went to wars for WMA's and thier were none. We went to war as stated by our president for 3 reasons..1.The belief based on our assetment Iraq had WMA close to full production.2. Chemical genecide on the kurds..100's of thousands killed for his practice and genocide wants.The graves and bodies found..3.To remove Saddam from power and stop this from further outreaching causing harm to more innocent people for this mans cause.....Not sure where those criers come from but me where I live in America 2 out of 3 aint bad.The WMA are a thing that was to have been found but as it looks were sold at last notice to Iraq allies like Iran as Saddam knew he was done and money in bank for a man on the run is easier to move but the idea must go on.Countries like france stood by Iraq and turned its back on us why? They made millinons violating international embargos of goods and weapons parts secretly to Iraq and how do we know? The paper tracks were found,the evidence seized.Why try to stop a friend from stopping an enemy?? Money the rule of all evil.So to those who dont stand by my country my America which I luv,by the sides of all the soldiers that fight becuase they were ordered to whether they wanted to or not,those who begged for help and we gave it to then turned on us when we asked for thier return help.Fuck them as you are my enemy and I will do my part to make sure you never reap from the blood and sweat of this nation.I give no respect or even an hint of compassion for those.Our President not the most schooled or smooth of word conveance did what he as the leader of the free world was to do and fought to protect us and our world friends and to Mr.Blair I thank you for standing side by side with us and fighting with my country returning the generosity and protection we were able to offer to you in your time of need while amounts of your own people turned on you questioning Englands need to fight.To France and the others god help you if you need to be bailed out ever again....You now say Mr Bush lies?? Does he lie ?or is he trying to show a public who is now so soft and unwilling to remember this history lesson not so long ago fought by thier parents and granparents the reasons he sees us needing to be where we are at the most turbulant time in any recent presidntial administration.Like Bush the man or hate him..He took the stand on our behalf and the worlds and said "We will not be made afraid.You will not bring a world to its knees by terrostic threats.The United States will not stand for it and we will prevail!" If thats what your calling a liar then I wouldn't want it any other way..God Bless America her allies and God bless our president George W. Bush a man who has to walk with giants and handle problems I never could....
The biggest crack of shitt I have read in a long while, just because I dont support the war doesnt mean I do not support guys that are out there dodging bullets just so you can feal righteous and patriotic, dont you dare to compare the 2 wars they are not even in the same ballpark, by the time we invaded Iraq was practically desarmed...If you cant handle the problems that idiot can handle, what does it make you? Not that I think W handeled anything, strategically he butchered this war...
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
well said krime13, FilthyFletch I have 3 family members over in Iraq don't you dare question my support for the troops. That's the problem with this war, the propaganda that the current administration has put out brings out misplace patriotism.
Quick, let me go into my closet and get you a 4 inch flag on a stick
. :rolleyes:
 

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
sooo... Fletch, you buy all the arguments for being in this war to start with, what does that have to do with staying there now? Maybe just to protect our banks and our cars?? Or maybe people will lose money in the stock market?? Oh no, I remember, its to 'protect our American way of life'. We have 5% of the Worlds population, we consume 75% of the Worlds goods. Why shouldn't we protect that?? Why do white anglo-saxon men have a 'Right' to that big of a slice of the pie?? It makes me think I should resign from my race. Get out now! We spent Billions, thats BILLIONS with a B, the MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX makes BILLIONS, if they are doing it for 'Patriotism' , do it for free. VV
 

medicineman

New Member
Fletchmeister, and a big Sig-Heil to you. You should be comparing the Bush regime to Hitler, He has a Gulag in Guantanamo, He has admittedly tortured "enemies", He Has suspended some of our constitutional rights, ever trying to get more. What kind of fucked up glasses are you wearing while you are drinking that koolaid, they must be magical as they see things that don't exist. How large is that pile of sand you have your head stuck in or, is it stuck up your ass? If the Bush regime wasn't as serious as a heart attack about fucking the world, I'd be laughing my ass off at your rediculous post. Maybe when you massage your IQ past 65 you'll see some real issues and not the fairytail world you obviously live in, Sig-Heil to you fletchmeister.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Yep ... if a liberal disagrees, they don't refute the facts, they just call names and have a freakin' hissy fit.

Hitler killed MILLIONS in the gas chambers. Hitler tortured many of those people to death through beatings, starvation and other physical abuses. To compare Bush with Hitler is assine, ignorant and stupid.

The liberals love to say that Bush has suspended our constitutional rights ... but they never say which ones.

That was a great post, Filthy ... don't let these nay-sayers intimidate you. :)

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Yep ... if a liberal disagrees, they don't refute the facts, they just call names and have a freakin' hissy fit.

Hitler killed MILLIONS in the gas chambers. Hitler tortured many of those people to death through beatings, starvation and other physical abuses. To compare Bush with Hitler is assine, ignorant and stupid.

The liberals love to say that Bush has suspended our constitutional rights ... but they never say which ones.

That was a great post, Filthy ... don't let these nay-sayers intimidate you. :)

Vi
What facts, hey I was the one with the facts' Why you don't think the patriot act and the newest shenanigans, illegal wiretapping. Guantanamo, renditioning, Abu Graib, and documented torture is not against the very fabric of the constitution amazes me. I guess that makes you one of them, Baaarrrrrffffff!!!! Wait till they come crashing through your front door, then maybe you'll see the light, But I'm pretty sure they won't as you are one of them, Baaarrrfff!!!
 

ViRedd

New Member
What facts, hey I was the one with the facts' Why you don't think the patriot act and the newest shenanigans, illegal wiretapping. Guantanamo, renditioning, Abu Graib, and documented torture is not against the very fabric of the constitution amazes me. I guess that makes you one of them, Baaarrrrrffffff!!!! Wait till they come crashing through your front door, then maybe you'll see the light, But I'm pretty sure they won't as you are one of them, Baaarrrfff!!!
The Patriot act allows government to listen in on phone conversations from foreign sources who are suspected of terrorist activities. All other phone taps require that a warrant be sworn out. Those being held in Guantanamo are non-uniformed enemy combatants ... they have NO constitutional rights, nor do the Geneva Conventions apply. Documented "torture" at Abu Graib? Other than "water boarding," and sleep deprevation, what were the tortures?

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
The Patriot act allows government to listen in on phone conversations from foreign sources who are suspected of terrorist activities. All other phone taps require that a warrant be sworn out. Those being held in Guantanamo are non-uniformed enemy combatants ... they have NO constitutional rights, nor do the Geneva Conventions apply. Documented "torture" at Abu Graib? Other than "water boarding," and sleep deprevation, what were the tortures?

Vi
Let me absorb this. You are saying that all this is allright with you. Let me assure you that they aren't getting warrants to spy on us. They have secret rooms in the largest Phone co. transfer rooms where they listen in on whomever they want. I guess you either don't watch 60 minutes or don't believe what you see. What about renditioning, they swap planes in Vegas, fly them in and go to the same terminal that services area 51, and transfer them to transcontinental planes that can fly to anywhere, I've seen this on the local news, Live footage. It's amazing what you can see from the 30th story of a strip hotel with a telephoto lens. Hooded individuals chained and herded into the building and later herded out to a 747 for international destinations. These guys (planes) get preferential treatment on the runways. There is some scary shit going down in Nevada.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Let me absorb this. You are saying that all this is allright with you. Let me assure you that they aren't getting warrants to spy on us. They have secret rooms in the largest Phone co. transfer rooms where they listen in on whomever they want. I guess you either don't watch 60 minutes or don't believe what you see. What about renditioning, they swap planes in Vegas, fly them in and go to the same terminal that services area 51, and transfer them to transcontinental planes that can fly to anywhere, I've seen this on the local news, Live footage. It's amazing what you can see from the 30th story of a strip hotel with a telephoto lens. Hooded individuals chained and herded into the building and later herded out to a 747 for international destinations. These guys (planes) get preferential treatment on the runways. There is some scary shit going down in Nevada.
Watch 60 minutes? Oh yeah, that's a VERY credible source of news, Med. Let's see, there was the Alar scare that just about put American apple growers out of business, thanks to the lies of 60 Minutes. Then there was the Chilean grape scare that put Chilean grape growers on a starvation diet, thanks to the lies of 60 Minutes. Then there was the Ford pickup trucks with the exploding gas tanks ... more lies by 60 Minutes. I won't even mention the rediculous "expose" of the real estate business. (Oh I guess I just did!) That was nothing more than a slam piece that was full of lies and distortions.

Man, if you are relying in 60 Minutes to give you the straight scoop you are in La-La-Land my friend. I think the desert heat is gettting to ya, Med.

Let's see now, if I remember right, 60 Minutes is on CBS, correct? Isn't that the very same network that used to foist that sleaze-ball Dan Rather off onto the American People and presented that ass hole as a "newsman?"

And no ... if its on 60 Minutes, I DON'T believe what I see.

Come on Med, you can refute my posts better than that ... although it HAS been a long time sense you've done so. :blsmoke:

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Watch 60 minutes? Oh yeah, that's a VERY credible source of news, Med. Let's see, there was the Alar scare that just about put American apple growers out of business, thanks to the lies of 60 Minutes. Then there was the Chilean grape scare that put Chilean grape growers on a starvation diet, thanks to the lies of 60 Minutes. Then there was the Ford pickup trucks with the exploding gas tanks ... more lies by 60 Minutes. I won't even mention the rediculous "expose" of the real estate business. (Oh I guess I just did!) That was nothing more than a slam piece that was full of lies and distortions.

Man, if you are relying in 60 Minutes to give you the straight scoop you are in La-La-Land my friend. I think the desert heat is gettting to ya, Med.

Let's see now, if I remember right, 60 Minutes is on CBS, correct? Isn't that the very same network that used to foist that sleaze-ball Dan Rather off onto the American People and presented that ass hole as a "newsman?"

And no ... if its on 60 Minutes, I DON'T believe what I see.

Come on Med, you can refute my posts better than that ... although it HAS been a long time sense you've done so. :blsmoke:

Vi
Why Bother? You are a crusty old man, set in his ways with a extremely narrow point of view and sometimes no point at all. You are right of Hitler, Ann Rand, what fucking la-la land do you live in. I'm sorry VI, but you have no arguements other than the right wing rhetorical drivel of the Neo-conistic camp of the Bushies. So rather than waste my time, I'll just call you what you are, an asshole. Happy motoring,~LOL~.
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
Yep ... if a liberal disagrees, they don't refute the facts, they just call names and have a freakin' hissy fit.

Hitler killed MILLIONS in the gas chambers. Hitler tortured many of those people to death through beatings, starvation and other physical abuses. To compare Bush with Hitler is assine, ignorant and stupid.

The liberals love to say that Bush has suspended our constitutional rights ... but they never say which ones.

That was a great post, Filthy ... don't let these nay-sayers intimidate you. :)

Vi
Vi I did say which constitutional rights when I had the argument with the guy who claimed to be in law school... Short memory Vi?
Me thinks that it was you posing.
 

FilthyFletch

Mr I Can Do That For Half
No worries I will never be intimidated bybleeding heart liberals or lackadazical democrates.I do dare say what I say. I have 3 dozen friends in Iraq.I have had 4 killed and have gone to 4 funerals since it started.I have an iRaq vet friend who is now lost his sanity and is no longer the man he was before going. Each and everyone of them tell me they are proud to do the service thier country asks of them regardless of what anyone thinks. I asked what soldiers opions of Bush were and they all tell me the same thing.The troops do as thier commander in chief asks with honor.They know the reasons they went.They wished more help would be sent and are angry the democartes in congress would even use thier lives as bargaining chips.The democrates tried to veto bills for more money for flak jackets and supplies to force a withdraw date.I personally find that utterly stunning democrates have so little concern for our US soldiers.My feelings are to those democrates and liberals on tv saying our soldiers are butchers and we are wrong fr holding prisoners in G Bay.We hold them detain them feed them give them water yes and use tatctics to phscologically break them down.Iraq beheads our soldiers and drags themier bodies through the street on parade.Im am all for a withdraw and a total bombing of that country to do it.And for the stupidest comment to not compare the begginings of Uraq to world war 2 come on you gotta be kidding me you have no idea or knowledge to not see the similarities of the start. My grandfather fought in ww2 and korea.His buddies at the VFW fought there and today when I go in and see those guys at the vfw they say its the same thing as it was there.And I do question your patritism if you openly undermind our country by be littling or showing a divide to out enemy.You have your opinions and when the war ends you can voice them, break them down, make banners and burn all the flags you want but during a war you stand United back the soldiers and the president since he is the commander in chief.And on a last note if you dont think Bush has had to deal with things the average man couldnt even fathom what would you have done after 9-11.Bush dealt with something no man ever in the history of the United States has had to do and he did it quit well. He rallied people thier brought crews and national guard in. He didnt set a panic out but made it clear we would not be intimidated .We could of been screwed and Clinton could have still been in there and he would have been with a fat tranvestite smokin a cigar wanting to just talk it out like the pussy and lazy basterd he was.Bush has started to rebuild or military to a point it once was under the greatest president even Reagan had it and George SR. The destruction and poor appearence of power we had built up was destroyed under Clinton.Now question you because you have friends or family fighting in Iraq as I do, questiuons your patriotism because you buried your friends who died there, maybe Im not the 1 speaking out making them doubt what they are thier for.Im not questioning the commander in chief for the world to see and see weakness.Im the one in the line behind the president and our troops showing the world I will stand with these guys back them and celebrate them in thier battles.Do I call Bush the best president ever no far from it do I think he handle this right for the most part yes but I wish he would stop being so politically correct hands tied and just erase most of the IRaq country that is attacking but he does have innocent lives to be aware of and yes collateral damage is part of war as sad as it is.For me I wish the borders were locked down, the militia men need federal support, religion should be abolished , and no popular to many democrates and liberals beliefs George W Bush isnt god and didnt create a hurricane and flood to kill black people........
 

medicineman

New Member
Filthy, an appropriate name if ever one was posted. I don't have time to refute all the nonsense you have posted above. I know soldiers that have been to Iraq and they say it is one gigantic clusterfuck, and they want no part of it. Now please tell me you aren't going to call these young heroes traitors for having an opinion different then the Bush doctrine. That asshole (Bush) has extended tours into the 18 MO. range and rotated them back after as little as 2 mos. These boys are shellshocked. Too much time in a combat zone has been proven to create psychotic reactions among the troops, and we are only seeing the beginning of a huge psychological problem with returning vets. All you idiots that think this war is the bomb should be saddeling up and heading on over, hopefully you'll be there when the million Iranian suicide troops come your way and You'll get to see your maker,~LOL~.
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
The Patriot act allows government to listen in on phone conversations from foreign sources who are suspected of terrorist activities.


Which is unconstitutional. Funny how you only use the document when it suits your purpose. Have you ever heard of Due Process, it's part of the Constitution.

All other phone taps require that a warrant be sworn out.


Then you never read the whole patriot act Vi, also there is a lot of Documented evidence where the Bush Administration has abused the Patriot act. Google Abuses of the Patriot Act

Those being held in Guantanamo are non-uniformed enemy combatants ... they have NO constitutional rights, nor do the Geneva Conventions apply.


Why because Gonzalez said it's so? He couldn't even keep his own lies straight when he testified before congress. You really need to go and read the Geneva convention and not take Bush's word for it. Once Someone is on a US soil or a US base, the Constitution does apply. So yes they are covered under the Constitution.

Documented "torture" at Abu Graib? Other than "water boarding," and sleep deprevation, what were the tortures?
Uhh Vi, You Nullified your argument by saying "other than."
There is also Humiliation which is also covered as torture under the Geneva convention. How about the Bitch who was using the dog to bite and snap at prisoners who were laying naked on the floor? Yes that would also be construed as torture under the Geneva Convention. FilthyFletch, isn't worth my time to refute, he is just too easy. All I can say that if you beleive all the bullshit you just posted, then by all means head over there and fight, otherwise shut up... Also, try and break up your postings with paragraphs. I'm guessing that you didn't learn that grammer part in English class.
 

FilthyFletch

Mr I Can Do That For Half
Medicine.those guys went over and fought did they not? They have my respect did they hold a rally when they got home to boycott other soldiers over there right now or a boycott bush rally?If they did that then Id have issues.I voluntaried to join the army but since a child I have been leaglly blind in my right eye which is uncorrective which I tried to pull over on the military but they catch things like a misshapen eyeball with no vision.I would hope with your rationals of being a good patriot that you served in the miltary yourself or at least offered and tried to sign up .You did didnt you?I tried. but offer my support and if ever need am willing to go.As far as my maker I met my maker which is simply evolution of pure chance. No god no aliens no alah no buddah just pure evolutional chance is what made me.I guess your soldiers are from a different breed as I have yet to hear from a soldiers mouth to my ear they were not proud to serve thier country by baring arms just that they'd like to get it over and have more troop support sent in to end it.
 

medicineman

New Member
Medicine.those guys went over and fought did they not? They have my respect did they hold a rally when they got home to boycott other soldiers over there right now or a boycott bush rally?If they did that then Id have issues.I voluntaried to join the army but since a child I have been leaglly blind in my right eye which is uncorrective which I tried to pull over on the military but they catch things like a misshapen eyeball with no vision.I would hope with your rationals of being a good patriot that you served in the miltary yourself or at least offered and tried to sign up .You did didnt you?I tried. but offer my support and if ever need am willing to go.As far as my maker I met my maker which is simply evolution of pure chance. No god no aliens no alah no buddah just pure evolutional chance is what made me.I guess your soldiers are from a different breed as I have yet to hear from a soldiers mouth to my ear they were not proud to serve thier country by baring arms just that they'd like to get it over and have more troop support sent in to end it.
Filthy, take some LSD and find God, might raise your appreciation of the natural world and give you an insight into the soul of the world. I have no religious ties and church is definentely out, But I certainly believe in a God, a supreme being. The Indian culture I've experienced opened my eyes to that phenomonem, so maybe it's not such a foriegn concept at all. and yes, there are plenty of soldiers that think Bush is the biggest asshole on the planet, go to google and research that. As for me, Viet Nam era Vet, and after the first week of Basic training I had figured out the army was a giant piece of shit run by ignorant assholes with a few good eggs thrown in here and there. Any organization that forces you to walk into a hail of bullets is insane, and it is pretty obvious that the leadership is kookoo, That mush mouth Bush and his Nazi buddies are completely insane.
 

krime13

Well-Known Member
this goes out to all the guys that say that questioning the current administration is unpatriotic...A true patriot will allways question those in command for the best interests of this country, somehow I dont consider suspension of constitutional ammendments and waging wars for personal profit in our best interest...I love this country and the flag and constitution and that is why I am speaking out against the president and his administration, they have created this clusterfuck and we are paing for it in dollars and in blood...
 
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