Silky Shagsalot
Well-Known Member
if you're in coco, and you need cal-mag, you're using the wrong nute line.
cal mag vs epsom salt
- Thread starter sampson0420
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Dank Raptor
Active Member
Coco has a natural potassium content which draws out the calcium from your plants. If you are using a "coco" based nute line then I would say you are smart for that but its not required.
A lot of farmers out here precharge their coco with calmag by running 10ml/gallon through it before planting in it. You can use any nutrient line with coco as long as you have excess calcium. Magnesium is beneficial because it is a catalyst in the absorption of calcium. Hence, calmag.
BTW I don't even use coco. I use a coco soilless mix.
Indoor Sun King
Well-Known Member
I use 4 ml of Cal-Mag / gallon...without it I have major issues,
I grow a few plants a year in hempy (perlite/vermiculite), so $15 for a pint that will last me years is not a major cost or effort
I grow a few plants a year in hempy (perlite/vermiculite), so $15 for a pint that will last me years is not a major cost or effort
calcium nitrate is just calcium nitrate, magnessium sulfate is just magnessium sulfate, cal/mag is just the 2 mixed together plus iron that you dont need, there isnt a "plant specific" calnit or mag sulfate, its all the same. Iv noticed most people dont know the difference between a calcium def or a mag def, hence the popularity of cal/mag
StormyHaze
Member
can you feed both epsom and calmag at the same time? and if the soil is high in ph can that lower the ph?
Your focus should be on building biodiversity in your soil. Go to as many old growth forests as possible and bring a cup full back with you and mix it in to your soil. Diversity of fungi, bacteria, protozoa, nematodes, arthropods, and earthworms breaking down organic matter that produces nutrients for plants to use. Most soils already have all the nutrients plants need, therefore by concentrating on soil health and creating a nice living soil, the soil in turn will provide for the plant and vise versa. The plant knows at any given time what it needs as far as nutrients. Do you think you know better then the plants? You know what Each phenotype needs 24-7 better then the plant itself? Don't kid yourself.
I have grown every which way and no till organics is just far superior.
I have grown every which way and no till organics is just far superior.
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
And yet, somehow, people still do great with coco and peat with hydro nutes.
I'm not hating on any method. I'm 41, have grown every which way since I was 16..Through my own observations, and experience I am a true believer in building a biodiverse living soil and hand over what the plant needs to the soil and plant which works in harmony with each other. I understand every argument. I still do hydroponic runs for the automation when I get burned out. If your growing a multi strain/ phenotype garden we all know in hydroponics we have to find similar cultivars that require similar regimens and even then it's a happy medium. Here is my small personal outdoor grow. Alot of diverse genetics and phenotypes in this grow. Here in the northeast it's been a rainy spring and summer yet from seed in late March I still have 8+ft plants (so far) with no signs of nute deficiencies/ toxicities, pest or fungi issues, just green happy plants even in overcast drizzle....
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The reason I originally brought this up, is because of all the people buying dry or liquid salts for their plants. Even buying soil and recipes for "super soil"...The market is crazy.ph adjusters bud sweeteners etc. when you find out most soils contain everything your plants need and that your literally throwing your money away when all you have to do is build a living biodiverse soil that is actually less labor intensive and cheaper then even "organic" nutes and amendments...and literally the healthy and vigor of your garden is skyrocketing.....
GlassJoe
Well-Known Member
They're different ways of achieving similar things. I have a no-till setup outdoors for the summer and I grow in a tent in a greenhouse over the winter where I use salts. Even in an outdoor no-till setup, you may need to amend soil for calcium/magnesium content.
I always recommend a two-part approach for calcium/magnesium, if your setup is organic/no-till you can do it with epsomite and a coarse gypsum that will break down over time (you can even get organic gypsum if that matters to you). If you run salts you can do it with epsom salts and solution grade gypsum, which dissolve in water.
This lets you adjust magnesium and calcium separately, since the plants aren't necessarily deficient in both of them at the same time. It has the added benefit of providing sulfur to the plant as well (Epsomite/epsom salt is magnesium sulfate and gypsum is calcium sulfate).
I always recommend a two-part approach for calcium/magnesium, if your setup is organic/no-till you can do it with epsomite and a coarse gypsum that will break down over time (you can even get organic gypsum if that matters to you). If you run salts you can do it with epsom salts and solution grade gypsum, which dissolve in water.
This lets you adjust magnesium and calcium separately, since the plants aren't necessarily deficient in both of them at the same time. It has the added benefit of providing sulfur to the plant as well (Epsomite/epsom salt is magnesium sulfate and gypsum is calcium sulfate).
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
I'm not arguing it. It's the way nature intended, but to say it's far superior, that part I have to argue, because it's subjective. Though it's a great method, it makes the plant work, to get what it needs. With hydro, what the plant needs is already there, basically forced into the plant. The plant doesn't have to work for it.
KNF would actually be a more superior method, imo. It's basically readily available organic nutrients.
I've done no till, or low till rather, because I would transplant into the soil. It's cool and all, but I don't like bugs in the house, not to mention worms, fungi, and bacteria's. Coco with hydro nutes is much cleaner. Dwc is even cleaner than that.
With indoor hydro, you have complete control over the parameters. I have had extraordinary runs, but never have I had a perfect run 100 percent of the time, weather it be purple on a stem etc... When you take a complete hydro run and a true organic no till run and compare notes hands down it becomes obvious what all the rave is about even the terps are louder..And sure, hydro is cleaner that is one of the pros oh hydro depending on the setup you have going. Like I said it's been my experience that true no till organics living soil is superior.
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
are you saying you don't have issues the entire grow? i'd be willing to try your recipe outdoors.
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
i kinda know about all that synergy in soil but i need info on how to make it. i.e. 2 gallons x, 3 pounds y, 5 quarts z .
zeem
Well-Known Member
Can you please share what is the cultivar subject in 645 (main subject) and 719 (bottom center slightly right)?
Thanks!
I personally tilled my row which is 3'x40'. My soil was fairly nice to start I had loom with high clay/silts but was rocky so water drained fairly well I went through the row and took out all big rocks and left the ones smaller then a quarter in..I then mixed it 2 large totes of old expanded clay from previous hydroponic grows probably about 10-12 50 liter bags worth, I then mixed in 2 bales of peat, 150lbs of worm castings, 1/2 box of kelpmeal, full box of fish bone meal, about 5 gallons of splintered biochar 1/4 box of azomite and 1/8 box sassafras..And then it got 2-3 inches of nice earthy compost and watered in with recharge twice a week..I waited about 6 weeks for the biochar to activate and started transplanting..I remember they got Alaskan fish emulsion and flouriliciois plus in veg and in flower seabird guano tea and flouriliciois plus until week 4 and then straight water. After that season I worked on biodiversity and now I add no nutrients but topdress with compost and blackstrap molasses to feed the microbes and add different soils from the different places and hikes I go on. I do add different microbes throughout the summer.
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
But superior in what ways? Growth rate.... no.. not really..... yield.... no.. not really. Depending on genetics of course. Again, I been down that rabbit hole. Indoors, is too messy. Outside, that would probably be the way I'd go, but I'd prefer KNF.
Living soils drawback is the decaying organic matter. It attracts bugs, good and bad. Indoors it can be a nightmare, or a PITA running an ipm.
I'm not downing it really. I enjoyed it, but not the cons that come with it.
More power to you though, and good luck.
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
I believe he's talking about just planting straight into the ground.