Cannabis value and quality

visajoe1 · Feb 12, 2017

What are your guys thoughts on legislation and the effect it may have on cannabis quality in rec/med markets?
Take a look at the link at bottom.

Personally, I voted against legalization in CA last november. I still think thats crazy since I was praying for it for 20 years, but that law is a fuckin monster. I believe recreational markets, especially, will erode the value of cannabis and as a result will bring quality down. I'm strictly talking about wholesale markets.

The reason being, the value of the commodity is so low, the margin is gone. In order to survive, quality is cut to grow margin. So, we get crappy herb for the same price.

I've noticed this trend in quality/price over the last 2 years in med shops, and its not getting better. the handful of shops that carry the true top shelf, charge 90's prices. So, now I grow my own

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/02/12/uh-oh-marijuana-prices-are-plunging-and-youre-not.aspx?source=yahoo-2&utm_campaign=article&utm_medium=feed&utm_source=yahoo-2&yptr=yahoo

greg nr · Feb 12, 2017

And so it goes. The market will eventually stabilize; premium product will command a top price and brick weed will be for the gas station buyers.

What in life makes you think any mfg is guaranteed 200% margin?

It sure as heck isn't the case in tech, mfg, or agriculture. Why is pot so special?

visajoe1 · Feb 12, 2017

greg nr said:
And so it goes. The market will eventually stabilize; premium product will command a top price and brick weed will be for the gas station buyers.

What in life makes you think any mfg is guaranteed 200% margin?

It sure as heck isn't the case in tech, mfg, or agriculture. Why is pot so special?

No one is guaranteed a margin and I dont think pot is special, not sure where you get that from. Was asking your thought on if/how you think it will effect quality

CaliSmokes · Feb 12, 2017

I kind of agree. Prices have begun and continue to rise in med shops. Quality is there but it's all over the place with things like exclusive, private, black label(wtf). I've always grown my own, but I do frequent shops because I liked the experience. Not anymore ! I voted Yes, but I also like AUMA as it's written and have no problems with it. Maybe come 2018 we will get some better shops with a much better variety and pricing.

mauricem00 · Feb 12, 2017

never heard the phrase " what the market will bear" if they can sell low quality at high prices in a protected market then that is what you will get.growing your own is the only way to get high quality at a reasonable price. the government will restrict the market to make the friends they give permits to rich

Lordhooha · Feb 12, 2017

visajoe1 said:
What are your guys thoughts on legislation and the effect it may have on cannabis quality in rec/med markets?
Take a look at the link at bottom.

Personally, I voted against legalization in CA last november. I still think thats crazy since I was praying for it for 20 years, but that law is a fuckin monster. I believe recreational markets, especially, will erode the value of cannabis and as a result will bring quality down. I'm strictly talking about wholesale markets.

The reason being, the value of the commodity is so low, the margin is gone. In order to survive, quality is cut to grow margin. So, we get crappy herb for the same price.

I've noticed this trend in quality/price over the last 2 years in med shops, and its not getting better. the handful of shops that carry the true top shelf, charge 90's prices. So, now I grow my own

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/02/12/uh-oh-marijuana-prices-are-plunging-and-youre-not.aspx?source=yahoo-2&utm_campaign=article&utm_medium=feed&utm_source=yahoo-2&yptr=yahoo

See I grow true top shelf even send it to be tested so everything is known. But I don't grow any junk however I donate an oz to several veterans like myself keep what I use and sell what's left. Considering I don't have worry about electricity having solar I do 10 a gram or oz for 100 bucks I give a good deal for buying more than a few grams and if your a veteran that doesn't get any donated I do 5 dollar grams or 60 for an ounce either way you come out ahead getting an oz from me.

visajoe1 · Feb 12, 2017

mauricem00 said:
never heard the phrase " what the market will bear" if they can sell low quality at high prices in a protected market then that is what you will get.growing your own is the only way to get high quality at a reasonable price. the government will restrict the market to make the friends they give permits to rich

great points. the permits to friends thing is what killed an ohio bill in 2015 that limited it to only 10 providers. wonder what the price was to make that list.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the-ohio-marijuana-vote-that-could-make-nick-lachey-a-weed-kingpin-yes-that-nick-lachey/2015/10/30/58bd2b28-7cc4-11e5-b575-d8dcfedb4ea1_story.html?utm_term=.cbc29e82346d

visajoe1 · Feb 12, 2017

Lordhooha said:
See I grow true top shelf even send it to be tested so everything is known. But I don't grow any junk however I donate an oz to several veterans like myself keep what I use and sell what's left. Considering I don't have worry about electricity having solar I do 10 a gram or oz for 100 bucks I give a good deal for buying more than a few grams and if your a veteran that doesn't get any donated I do 5 dollar grams or 60 for an ounce either way you come out ahead getting an oz from me.

10/g is fair for legit top shelf retail price. 100-1150 is where I'd like to be for the ones I care about, or lower if possible. I dont need the money, I just dig great herb and cant seem to find it anymore. Best herb I got consistently was in high school paying 60/eighth in the 90's.

Lordhooha · Feb 12, 2017

visajoe1 said:
10/g is fair for legit top shelf retail price. 100-1150 is where I'd like to be for the ones I care about, or lower if possible. I dont need the money, I just dig great herb and cant seem to find it anymore. Best herb I got consistently was in high school paying 60/eighth in the 90's.

I try to be as fair as possible. All mine like I said is top shelf and tested at ironlabs. Not only do they taste good but smell awesome too, they all test between 25% plus depending on the strain. All of my genetics come straight from the breeders or as close as possible.

Dr. Who · Feb 13, 2017

Lordhooha said:
See I grow true top shelf even send it to be tested so everything is known. But I don't grow any junk however I donate an oz to several veterans like myself keep what I use and sell what's left. Considering I don't have worry about electricity having solar I do 10 a gram or oz for 100 bucks I give a good deal for buying more than a few grams and if your a veteran that doesn't get any donated I do 5 dollar grams or 60 for an ounce either way you come out ahead getting an oz from me.

Your zip price is too cheap. We live in the same state too. 200 per and that's friends price.....

visajoe1 said:
What are your guys thoughts on legislation and the effect it may have on cannabis quality in rec/med markets?
Take a look at the link at bottom.

Personally, I voted against legalization in CA last november. I still think thats crazy since I was praying for it for 20 years, but that law is a fuckin monster. I believe recreational markets, especially, will erode the value of cannabis and as a result will bring quality down. I'm strictly talking about wholesale markets.

The reason being, the value of the commodity is so low, the margin is gone. In order to survive, quality is cut to grow margin. So, we get crappy herb for the same price.

I've noticed this trend in quality/price over the last 2 years in med shops, and its not getting better. the handful of shops that carry the true top shelf, charge 90's prices. So, now I grow my own

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/02/12/uh-oh-marijuana-prices-are-plunging-and-youre-not.aspx?source=yahoo-2&utm_campaign=article&utm_medium=feed&utm_source=yahoo-2&yptr=yahoo

In our state. The new laws will allow only commercially raised cannabis to be sold to MM disp. Recreational is not long off as these laws are designed to use that as a money source for the state.

The problem for the "legal" over the counter buyer will be limited selection and average quality as the growers are at 500-1500 plant count levels. The lic for these are 10K to simply apply for - non refundable. Corporate or big money players will come in, hire Horts, and some select local "caregivers" with what may prove to be limited quality experience. These big money players will not understand diversity or running for "top plant potential quality" and run fast and high producing strains of mid quality. It will be harvested by "time" and not for top quality.....there maybe a place that would go for better quality but, from some of the things I'm hearing about the one's putting in for lic.....It will be a RARE thing!

Whats that mean for me? The price of 30 a gram due to a minimum of 3 levels of taxing the product before it hit's the shelf is going to be a BOON to me! I'll raise my price and still have them demanding more.....You will also see the little novice "I can do this, it's only a weed" Bozo's dry up and go away as quality will command even more of the underground market....

It's not like Colorado and the wonderful laws in place there for the Com grower. The ability to run for quality and the fact that cutting edge strains are being breed there. Are simply pointing to a quality driven market!

Nope, MI is going to be like Canada! The quality and selection will drop and "mistakes" and contaminated plant material problems will come out from those "corporate" farms.....

mauricem00 · Feb 13, 2017

visajoe1 said:
great points. the permits to friends thing is what killed an ohio bill in 2015 that limited it to only 10 providers. wonder what the price was to make that list.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the-ohio-marijuana-vote-that-could-make-nick-lachey-a-weed-kingpin-yes-that-nick-lachey/2015/10/30/58bd2b28-7cc4-11e5-b575-d8dcfedb4ea1_story.html?utm_term=.cbc29e82346d

same thing with nevada limited number of permits given to politically connected for both medical and recreational. as an MMJ patient I can legally grow my own because none of the dispensaries up here carry true medical strains like medihaze.the cancer patients I give my surplus to claim that my homegrown is much better than what the dispensaries sell. a restricted market means high priced garbage.in nevada the average price is around $100k.clearly there will be a black market for quality weed.

Kingrow1 · Feb 13, 2017

visajoe1 said:
What are your guys thoughts on legislation and the effect it may have on cannabis quality in rec/med markets?
Take a look at the link at bottom.

Personally, I voted against legalization in CA last november. I still think thats crazy since I was praying for it for 20 years, but that law is a fuckin monster. I believe recreational markets, especially, will erode the value of cannabis and as a result will bring quality down. I'm strictly talking about wholesale markets.

The reason being, the value of the commodity is so low, the margin is gone. In order to survive, quality is cut to grow margin. So, we get crappy herb for the same price.

I've noticed this trend in quality/price over the last 2 years in med shops, and its not getting better. the handful of shops that carry the true top shelf, charge 90's prices. So, now I grow my own

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/02/12/uh-oh-marijuana-prices-are-plunging-and-youre-not.aspx?source=yahoo-2&utm_campaign=article&utm_medium=feed&utm_source=yahoo-2&yptr=yahoo

Legalization is just business thesedays, us illegal growers value it way more than a bunch of sick people and the goverment. For them it is a means to an end but for us it is a means to the start of expanding our our minds and finding pure zen...!

Vote no to legalization :-)

visajoe1 · Feb 13, 2017

Dr. Who said:
Your zip price is too cheap. We live in the same state too. 200 per and that's friends price.....

In our state. The new laws will allow only commercially raised cannabis to be sold to MM disp. Recreational is not long off as these laws are designed to use that as a money source for the state.

The problem for the "legal" over the counter buyer will be limited selection and average quality as the growers are at 500-1500 plant count levels. The lic for these are 10K to simply apply for - non refundable. Corporate or big money players will come in, hire Horts, and some select local "caregivers" with what may prove to be limited quality experience. These big money players will not understand diversity or running for "top plant potential quality" and run fast and high producing strains of mid quality. It will be harvested by "time" and not for top quality.....there maybe a place that would go for better quality but, from some of the things I'm hearing about the one's putting in for lic.....It will be a RARE thing!

Whats that mean for me? The price of 30 a gram due to a minimum of 3 levels of taxing the product before it hit's the shelf is going to be a BOON to me! I'll raise my price and still have them demanding more.....You will also see the little novice "I can do this, it's only a weed" Bozo's dry up and go away as quality will command even more of the underground market....

It's not like Colorado and the wonderful laws in place there for the Com grower. The ability to run for quality and the fact that cutting edge strains are being breed there. Are simply pointing to a quality driven market!

Nope, MI is going to be like Canada! The quality and selection will drop and "mistakes" and contaminated plant material problems will come out from those "corporate" farms.....

This pretty much exactly how I expect it play out, well written @Dr. Who

Although, I do agree big money will come in, I think they will hold back and just dip a toe in for a couple reasons.
1. Corps do not throw money down a hole without thinking and projecting ROI. Since banking is still illegal on Fed level for the industry, I suspect big money will stay out until they can use a bank or distance themselves legally via shell companies and keep it on a smaller scale.
2. Unless an ag company comes in, they would have little experience which is risky and would likely be avoided. So, look for the Bayer's of the industry or a regional farmer to peep around

Not to mention it will be several years before all the different levels of licensing are in effect. An entire state bureaucracy is being built right now to track compliance, enforce rules, approve licenses, etc. Guys who pays for that? The guy/gal that will be paying $20+/gram, thats who.

TAXES!
Holy hell. Its bad enough already that the industry doesnt get the benefit of paying taxes on net profits like every other business. But the CA law is even worse for growers because the tax is a flat rate on weight, not percentage of value. So, the growers pay the same tax $ per lb, but wholesale prices arent rising. Another bite out of margin.

So, the growers have very limited options the way I see it. Grow high quality that has a low price ceiling and accept a low margin and feel good about providing quality. Or grow lower quality with nearly the same price ceiling, but a much lower cost and make more profit.
Gee, I wonder what businesses will do...

I havent read the CO law, I'll need to do that.

On that note, I'm about 5 days from harvest :blsmoke:

visajoe1 · Feb 13, 2017

Kingrow1 said:
Legalization is just business thesedays, us illegal growers value it way more than a bunch of sick people and the goverment. For them it is a means to an end but for us it is a means to the start of expanding our our minds and finding pure zen...!

Vote no to legalization

Yep! I only cared to be legal and protect myself from an over eager cop in an unlikely event. I've been a patient and safe for years now, so I stopped caring about legalization.

Kingrow1 · Feb 13, 2017

visajoe1 said:
Yep! I only cared to be legal and protect myself from an over eager cop in an unlikely event. I've been a patient and safe for years now, so I stopped caring about legalization.

People are sheep, what we should have done is show defiance in the face of those that enslave us. Had the votes come back %100 against legalization we would have started walking the true path of freedom.

One day weed was about freedom, the next its all this bullshit...

Lordhooha · Feb 13, 2017

Dr. Who said:
Your zip price is too cheap. We live in the same state too. 200 per and that's friends price.....

In our state. The new laws will allow only commercially raised cannabis to be sold to MM disp. Recreational is not long off as these laws are designed to use that as a money source for the state.

The problem for the "legal" over the counter buyer will be limited selection and average quality as the growers are at 500-1500 plant count levels. The lic for these are 10K to simply apply for - non refundable. Corporate or big money players will come in, hire Horts, and some select local "caregivers" with what may prove to be limited quality experience. These big money players will not understand diversity or running for "top plant potential quality" and run fast and high producing strains of mid quality. It will be harvested by "time" and not for top quality.....there maybe a place that would go for better quality but, from some of the things I'm hearing about the one's putting in for lic.....It will be a RARE thing!

Whats that mean for me? The price of 30 a gram due to a minimum of 3 levels of taxing the product before it hit's the shelf is going to be a BOON to me! I'll raise my price and still have them demanding more.....You will also see the little novice "I can do this, it's only a weed" Bozo's dry up and go away as quality will command even more of the underground market....

It's not like Colorado and the wonderful laws in place there for the Com grower. The ability to run for quality and the fact that cutting edge strains are being breed there. Are simply pointing to a quality driven market!

Nope, MI is going to be like Canada! The quality and selection will drop and "mistakes" and contaminated plant material problems will come out from those "corporate" farms.....

Indeed my prices are low and i still come out ahead. I'm not in it to become the next super rich just to help folks that need it and recover enough to cover my cost and have some extra bullshitting money.

majins · Feb 13, 2017

If your after pure profits then you sell it on the black market that doesn't require medical ID.
Where im from the black market weed is $25 for 0.5 to 0.8g and usually the most shittest quality stuff you can find since it wasnt up to the quality to be sold in a dispensary which is $20 per 1g.

PCXV · Feb 13, 2017

In Oregon, legalization meant I could grow my own and supply my family and friends. Rec. stores are too expensive, mostly because of tax, but most of the ones with higher ratings have pretty good bud. About a third of the shops I've been to are selling below-average bud for relatively cheap ($6-8 gram). I much prefer this to the way it was before.

Cannabis value and quality

visajoe1

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greg nr

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visajoe1

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CaliSmokes

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mauricem00

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Lordhooha

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visajoe1

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Lordhooha

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visajoe1

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