Chiesel Full LED - First Time Grow

Ty Psu for your advice & everyone. I've let them ride out the burn and haven't added anything to them thus far.

Environment: Temps are 75-81 it never gets into the 79-81 zone for long, it's usually very brief (situational). RH has dipped to 36% for very brief periods (humidifier running out of water/situational) usually kept above 40%. I've increased the in-line fan speed by a tiny notch (via fan speed controller from from medium-low to medium to increase air exchange and even this small increase has dropped what was 50% RH down to below 40%, so I've turned up the humidifier a tiny bit to compensate keeping it in the 40s most of the time.

Webs: I have noticed a network of webs (just in time for Hallows Eve) on the outside of the smart pots and inside the tent. These webs look like house spider webs but I want to make sure they aren't spider mites. I've read up on mites and this web seems to be a house web, took out the web wherever I saw it (didn't feel I wanted it in the environment despite the season, lol).

Note: I'm aware that the photos are not natural, I've received numerous requests for natural photos, however, I've read that moving smart pots is bad for the root system (actually causes physical damage to the root system). I've gone in with a green LED and shined it over the magenta so you can better make out the features of the plant, it still doesn't give you a good idea on colouring and I'm going to be working on putting proper lighting in for photos when the lights are out, possibly even a CFL but I'm trying to keep this LED all the way, for my first grow.


Chiesel #1: 8.5 Inches, this is the tallest plant and the plant the clipping came from in the natural photo some weeks back. This plant has shown the fastest burn crawl (from the bottom up) but she seems to be beating the burn with her new growth lately, the flush seems to have done all 3 of them good.

Chiesel #2: 7.5 inches, this plant is (arguably) doing the best. While shorter than the first, it seems to have retained the most resistance to burn and has still maintained steady growth. Burn has slowed the most on this plant.

Chiesel #3: This plant struggled as a seedling, stretched and has shown stunted/narrow growth. It's always been dark green compared to the other plants which makes me assume it might have a specific deficiency despite being the same strain under the same soil/light.

It's been 7 days since the last watering. When I water them I water all 3 of them at the same time, is this a first timers mistake? I have a moisture meter but it's pretty much useless in determining root growth if I'm going to water based off that. Other than that I'm hoping with enough watering they will ride out this burn.

glad to hear you're starting to gain a little peace of mind after all the treacherous nute burn, new growth is always a beautiful thing and when they plant their feet again they will explode with new growth I usually water mine at the same time regardless, some more than others but i never spoil just one of my girls, they all get the lovin they need haha lookin' good bro, keep it up!!!

Sorry for the lack of updates but I was waiting for improvements before I made a post. I've cranked up the humidifier and have seen improvements. Chiesel #1 is showing new but small growth. Her stalk is green but anything she grows burns up quickly. I've increased watering to a solo cup (about 10 oz) of water every 6 days. Trying to increase my watering and see if upping the water will dissolve some of the nutrients to save them from the burn.

Chiesel #2 is looking good compared to the others. She has a few pairs of nodes that are burning like the rest but retaining a greener texture and a healthier form than the other Chiesels.

Chiesel #3 is still showing a strong stem and struggles on despite being stunted atm. Showing more growth and more green being retained after the increase in watering. I have to run my humidifier sometimes at max 24 hours a day to keep my RH in the mid 40s. The fan is allowing them to dance about. Considering adding a co2 bag and some CFL's. Also if anyone knows of any tips or tricks to save plants from relentless nute burn, please post them. I'm riding this out and hopefully one of them survives so I can post the buds.

Noticing some residue in the room (on the humidifier) maybe that's just the soil being blown around but I'm finding that the addition of the humidifier has helped them. I apologize for the quality of the pics. If you look closely you can make out the burn/green. I haven't invested in a proper cam and just use my smart phone. Will be going in with a white LED w/ lights out so you can get a proper look.









As promised, when I went in to mist them a couple hours ago I got shots of them with the white LED. These are of Chiesel 1, 2, and 3.

You should pull off all that dead shit, dude there's something crazy going on there.....what did you use to flush and you PH treated your flush water right? what are you treatin' the PH of your water to and how are you testing in bro? I got a few that i started way after you and mine are doing beautifully, but i have literally only watered them 2 times in about 3 weeks. don't water at the stem of the plants, water around them so they have to grow their roots to absorb and have a better foundation. we'll get through this buddy!!!

Looks like really bad nute burn to me.

birdmananyweather said:

You should pull off all that dead shit, dude there's something crazy going on there.....what did you use to flush and you PH treated your flush water right? what are you treatin' the PH of your water to and how are you testing in bro? I got a few that i started way after you and mine are doing beautifully, but i have literally only watered them 2 times in about 3 weeks. don't water at the stem of the plants, water around them so they have to grow their roots to absorb and have a better foundation. we'll get through this buddy!!!

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Yeah I'll cut those dead leaves off, I think they may be weighing her down a bit as well. I flushed with bottled water. I have a digital PH meter (Hanna instruments/sponge/probe) as well as a PH kit, used both for awhile and now it's been R/O or what I've seen others do which is to leave tap water out for 24-48 hours. My environment (even outside the tent) is very dry. To give you an example, if I open my window (near the tent) I have to close the closet door and tent zip with the humidifier cranked to max in order to maintain a 40+ RH. Early on I let them dry out for the length of time you mentioned (though it wasn't as dry out) and they became hard and brittle, I think it may just be an environment factor that.

When you used bottled water, did you balance the PH to 6.0? you should run to your local grow shop and pick up some clearex, add that to standard tap water and then ph test that liquid goodness to 6.0 and FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH. test your runoff water and see what it says. do you have a calibration kit for your PH tester?

what you're doing with the water by keeping it out in the open is removing SOME (not all) of the chlorine and a super small amount of impurities from the water, but it doesn't do much for the total dissolved solids in your tap water already. Reverse Osmosis treated water requires a R/O filtration system which makes the water like super ultra mega filtered water and usually leaves behind less than 20ppm which is some of the purest h2O and it gives you so much control over your nutrient solution.

I really don't think its your room humidity, it looks like nutrient lockout at this point. I'm almost certain that if you flush with clearex balanced at 6.0 that they will look sooo much better in a week. They are still hangin' in there which is the beauty of living up to its name being called a weed lol. When i lived in arizona my shit dropped down lower than 10% for weeks before and I never had a problem, i just set a cup of water in there, it does shorten the life of a carbon filter doing it that way but mine was a DIY easy to change filter so it wasnt a big deal. If this doesnt work...we'll think of something else but i'm almost certain it will work

birdmananyweather said:

When you used bottled water, did you balance the PH to 6.0? you should run to your local grow shop and pick up some clearex, add that to standard tap water and then ph test that liquid goodness to 6.0 and FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH. test your runoff water and see what it says. do you have a calibration kit for your PH tester?

what you're doing with the water by keeping it out in the open is removing SOME (not all) of the chlorine and a super small amount of impurities from the water, but it doesn't do much for the total dissolved solids in your tap water already. Reverse Osmosis treated water requires a R/O filtration system which makes the water is like super ultra mega filtered water and usually leaves behind less than 20ppm which is some of the purest h2O and it gives you so much control over your nutrient solution.

I really don't think its your room humidity, it looks like nutrient lockout at this point. I'm almost certain that if you flush with clearex balanced at 6.0 that they will look sooo much better in a week. They are still hangin' in there which is the beauty of living up to its name being called a weed lol. When i lived in arizona my shit dropped down lower than 10% for weeks before and I never had a problem, i just set a cup of water in there, it does shorten the life of a carbon filter doing it that way but mine was a DIY easy to change filter so it wasnt a big deal. If this doesnt work...we'll think of something else but i'm almost certain it will work

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I did not PH the bottled water (although I should have). I am going to order some clearex as you recommended, it's basically what I was looking for. Each pot I have is 3 gallons, so how much clearex would I need? Ty again.

Fyi: I did the cup of water trick and the home made humidity filter before buying an ultrasonic humidifier. I also go in when the light is off and spray/mist them with distilled water.

it's like 10-15 ml per gallon, just follow the instructions on the bottle. I might be even happier than you are (lol probably not) if and when it works =P

I would run 3 Gallons of Ph treated to 6.0 tap water, then Hit it with a gallon of water with the clearex treated to 6.0, let that run off and then put her back, it will be over a week...maybe even 2 before you are going to water again. I think we found the solution bro!!!

birdmananyweather said:

it's like 10-15 ml per gallon, just follow the instructions on the bottle. I might be even happier than you are (lol probably not) if and when it works =P

I would run 3 Gallons of Ph treated to 6.0 tap water, then Hit it with a gallon of water with the clearex treated to 6.0, let that run off and then put her back, it will be over a week...maybe even 2 before you are going to water again. I think we found the solution bro!!!

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Will be flushing with it and posting results, ty again

We got your back bro!

This isn't meant to be offensive, but "Stop, in the name of love". If I were you I would treat these like fresh cut clones. Give them one watering with no nutes at all, and cut off all the dead leaves, (in fact, personally, I would strip almost everything off besides the top set of leaves), and let them reset, no nutes for a week or so, and then start out at a quarter of the recommendation on your bottle. I didn't read what kind of soil your using, but most nowadays already have nutrients to get them through the beginning. I like keeping in rockwool for total control. Start "branching" them out, by topping them, and like I said, cut nutes completely.

It also looks like it's too hot in your room, it's hard when you don't have anything to test against, but I bet you bought into the idea that LED's don't produce heat. They do, maybe not as much as HPS, but still enough to overheat things, You should back your light off at least 2 feet, until you have a bigger plant that can handle more abuse/light. It looks like a couple of them are goners, but that's just a lesson learned. You'll get the hang of this, but it all takes some trial and error.

Also one last thing, I want to make it clear, I'm not saying do everything tonight. I would trim the dead leaves, and flush, pull the light back, and then in about 3 days I'd start bushing out select areas I wanted extended.

It's been awhile since I've posted any updates, I wanted to wait until I saw progress before posting again.

Temps have been 74-77, RH has been kept between 44% - 50%.

Summary of water schedule:

11/13 - 10 oz of pHed water per plant

11/14 - 5 drops of Neem oil per 8 oz of water sprayed onto leaves during night cycle (found webbing and squashed a few mites)

11/20 - Clearex flush (compliments of birdmananyweather, ty for recommending this product), 4 gallons per 3-gallon pot, 1 gallon of clearex solution (15 ml of clearex to 1 gallon) with the remaining 3 gallons being pHed R/O water with a PPM of 0.17.

pHed the water that came out of the soil and it seemed on the high side initially (6.8 and 7.1) but evened out at the end of the flush. I've noticed new growth at the base of the stem where the browned and burnt nodes had fallen off on all of the girls.

(from left to right)

Chiesel #1 is showing the least improvement from the flush atm, not as much new growth as the others but is showing the same new growth from the bottom of the stem up at each node section where the burnt sections had fallen off. She has the least progress out of all the 3 yet still has a healthy green stem and is regrowing her nodes. I've not planned to pull this plant yet and want to see if she will start to turn around like the others.






Chiesel #2 is showing new growth but is having trouble sustaining growth like the rest. New growth but then it narrows out, she still has a very strong healthy stem, regrowing nodes like #1 and is continuing to grow taller.





Chiesel #3 is doing the best which is surprising as she was doing the worst to start with. She has exploded since the flush and has shot out big thick broad leaves (in contrast to the previous). I am seeing alternating nodes on her recent growth.



Image of the still prevalent burn post-flush on Chiesel #3:






It has been 8 days since the flush and I'm curious as to when I should begin to water them again since this is my first time flushing. I have a Rapitest moisture meter and I do the lift technique, however, due to the massive amounts of water involved in a flush I wonder if I should let them dry out longer. I hope I can at least salvage a couple of the girls and show you guys a class harvest in the end!

YAAAY THEY LIVE!!!! hahaha lookin good bro, I go old fashion and stick muh finger down all the way, if its still even slightly moist ill wait because you want the roots to reach for moisture and toughens them up. I havent even posted on my grow in a while as well, guess i should get to that huh lol. Im glad things are lookin up, after they shake the shock, they will go crazy in there! stay positive my brother!

Update: Just got done watering the girls, no watering was done since the Nov 20th flush.

12/4/12 - 3 and 1/2 ounces (70 ml) of water for Chiesel #2 and #3, each. 7 ounces 140 ml for Chiesel #1 due to continued burn. Sprayed lightly with neem water for moisture and mite prevention.

Lots of new growth on #2 and 3 and #1 is still hanging in there with new growth showing up towards the bottom. I'm still trying to get my soil watering down. I have the meter and use the lift method but it's still hard to tell when to increase watering or decrease it and how heavy to make the pots once they're light. Hopefully this is a good regimen and they continue to explode!

(pics taken during the beginning of their night cycle with a green LED, hopefully it's easier on the eyes than their Kessil H350 Magenta that they're usually under)

Bulk photos of all 3 girls. This time under the magenta. They exploded with new growth but now I'm seeing Chiesel #3 displaying drooping leaves and more burn (crisped tips on the new growth).

Last water was 12/12/12, 120 ml per plant.

I was tring to get a Kessil last month, but the shipping cost from UK to Amsterdam was 20$, anyone knows there is any Dutch website selling Kessil here?

LEDMania, I'd say your best bet is to find a Kessil seller on ebay that is willing to ship internationally. Some U.S shops may also be willing to ship internationally but they could charge a hefty price.

Update: Last watering was 12/18, 1 cup per plant. Watered all 3 plants today on 12/23 with 1 solo cup per plant.

After flushing with clearex on 11/20 they exploded with new growth, large branches and new spots of node growth. Now they seem to be slipping back into the burn. I'm seeing the same claw-like sharp features in the ends of their leaves, and the burning starting with crisping at the tips will the leaves are completely burnt. It's started its way at the bottom (lost a few leaves) and it's working its way back up again to the new growth. I fear that they are ready to lose all of their progress if I just sit back hoping water will dilute down this soil. I swear I will never buy FFOF again, lol. Anyone have any idea on whether I should simply flush with Clearex again or plant into a new soil? It seems this soil is still burning these plants up even with 2 months of growth and Clearex flush.

Health and colour of the plants are hard to see under the magenta but I have provided photos of the burnt up dead leaves outside of their environment. I am 100% sure this is burn. I have pHed the water meticulously with a digital meter. I use an expensive R/O water filter system with a PPM of 0.17 and I keep the temps perfect between 73-77 with the RH at 45-50%.

Chiesel #2 began to fall due to heavy growth so I cut a hanger in half and zip used a zip tie to affix the plant. I have some proper gardening stakes and soft plant ties now in case the others begin to fall.

Flushed them on 12/29 with Clearex, 3 gallons of pHed R/O water and then 15 ml of Clearex in 1 gallon.

Last watering was yesterday, about 1 solo cup per plant. Planning on adding some cal-mag to what looks like yellowing/mag deficiency. All 3 plants are exploding with new growth especially Chiesel #1.

New light: Installed a new Kessil H350 today, Deep Purple. So now I have 2 Kessil H350's running. I don't have pics of the new light as it was installed before writing this thread but you'll be able to see it in future updates. It seems to be a better light to view the plants under compared to the magenta.

I don't think there are any negative consequences to adding more light during a grow (stress?), if anything it should just mean more yield.

Looking much better Bilgerat!!!!............great job sticking with the girls through their hard times, hopefully they return your effort with some fine smoke....