Cloning help! No roots.

I've cloned successfully many times in the past using a tray and dome. Now I decided to build my own ez cloner machine. I have had no success with it and the cuttings just won't root. I'm not using a dome and just have the machine under a flourescent. I'm curious why the clone machines don't use a dome. I leave the pump on 24/7 and have regular RO water. What's the best way to clone? Dome or no? Nutrients?
I've just had no success with this machine an need all the advice possible

I dont know about the easy cloner but I have a couple suggestions. First I definately say dome and if it's not fogging with humidity then get a heat mat. If your using those and thats not the problem then It has to be something with the system.

i really have no experience in this system but the bottom should be dark dont really need any light but what you need to work with,you could clip the leave while cloning, anther thing is there has to b a fine mist touching the bottom of the plants. just remember this dark and humid is what u need.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T07--heDYHc

if u were succseful in cloning in dirt then why did u switch

What temp you running the water?

I had a similar problem with my homemade ez cloners as well. I used plain ph adjusted water and got some terrible results. After 3 weeks all I had were sad looking clones with stem rot. I dumped the res and soaked everything in water+alcohol+h2o2 (turns out i didnt clean it enough after i made it). I added some h2o2 and KLN rooting hormone to the water, a touch of growth nutes (to keep healthy after rooting) and adjusted ph to 5.8-6.0. I now have perfect results, the roots explode off of every inch of my stem. I think the rooting hormone really helped the rooting, and the h2o2 helped stop future stem rot.

edit: Wanted to add that a dome is not necessary in this system, a moist stem is what you need, not moist leaves. The point of the dome in other systems is that they tend to dry out without them (rockwool and starter plugs dry out quick under a light). As this is aero with constant water being sprayed on the stems, a dome will only help algae,mold and mildew grow on the surface of your tank/leaves.

my 100 percent success way of cloning is the best i could do. now keep in mind, i have fucked up cloning in so many ways and this way has never failed a single plant to fail. and i have done several hunred this way.

get the small jiffy pucks at wally world. swell the up in tap water. cut clones, i always stab the stems with a pin to penetrate it and i do it under water. dip in rooting powder and stick into the swelled puck. now here is the important part, get some empty jars that are very small. i use glass mustard jars. 6 oz but anything small will work. the puck should be let to stand until water stops dripping and doesnt completely soak a paper towel. then drop the clone and cutting in the jar. now take a deep breath, hold it, now breath directly into the jar and close the lid. i do it once a day to put co2 in the system. have yet to have a single cutting to fail this way and believe me, i can fuck up some serious clones, i am horrible at it.

My EZ-Clone 60 site unit works awesome, no issues. You just follow the simple directions and it works. This from the manual:

Lighting​

The preferred lighting to use is a 2 or 4 foot dual fluorescent fixture. The 40 watt bulbs work best and
this is a sufficient amount of light for the delicate cuttings. A 2 foot fixture works well over our 30 cutting
unit and a 4 foot fixture supplies adequate coverage over our 60 and 120 cutting units. The light should
be securely suspended over the unit and should be placed about 8-12 inches above the top of the
cuttings.​

Filling Reservoir, Additives, and PH​

Next, with the manifold properly attached to the water pump and placed in the center of the reservoir,
fill the reservoir with tap water or another source of quality water. Fill the unit until the water is just
touching the very bottom of the misters, making sure not to cover them. This will ensure that there is
the largest volume of water in the reservoir possible without hindering the operation of the manifold.
Remember, the more water that’s in the unit, the cooler the water will remain, and the more stable the
ph level will be.
Note: Avoid using (distilled) water! It causes lack of progress and could prevent roots from
forming at all. However, Reverse Osmosis water is usually fine. If you feel that the tap water in
your area is too high in certain mineral content or has excessive chlorine, it’s ok to use an RO
system, but tap water in most areas is usually sufficient.
Next, I add my solutions. The first one is Dyna Gro’s – ProTekt. This is a silica based solution that
strengthens the cuttings from the inside out. It assists in building stronger cell walls, preventing the
formation of bacteria and invading fungi, and helps with overall health and vigor. I add it at dilution rate
of 1 teaspoon per gallon. In a large 120 cutting unit, this equates to be approximately 20 teaspoons. In
a 60 cutting unit, it equates to 10 teaspoons, and in a 30 cutting unit, it equates to be about 5 teaspoons.
Next, I add Dyna Gro’s – KLN. This is added at the same dilution rate, 1 teaspoon per gallon. KLN is a
liquid rooting hormone and is also full of vitamins and minerals.
After my solutions are added, I’ll adjust the PH. Tap water is usually PH adjusted somewhere close to
neutral or just above 7.0. After adding the Pro Tekt, it usually always causes an increase in PH, so the
PH needs to be lowered with a PH down buffering solution. I’ve also noticed that even without additives
of any kind, the PH of tap water will have a tendency to rise over the course of 24-48 hours. To
compensate for this, I adjust my initial PH down to approximately 5.2 because I know the PH will slowly
rise somewhere close to between 5.8 and 6.3. This is an acceptable range for getting quality results. I
keep the closest eye on my PH during this time period between 24-48 hrs. If the PH needs to be
adjusted again later on, do so, but it usually stables out after the first couple adjustments. If you are not
sure if you’ve got an accurate PH reading, I highly recommend getting a quality digital PH meter. You
should be using one of these for your feeding solutions in all stages of growth anyway.
Note: The additives I choose to use for the cloning process are NOT high in macronutrients. In
other words, I am not adding nutrients that will feed the plants with high NPK levels. (N=Nitrogen,
P=Phosphorus, and K=Potassium) Regular plant nutrients should be saved until the cuttings
have developed an adequate root system. I know that some people choose to clone with light
amounts of these nutrients, but in my experience, it takes the cutting longer to develop roots.
The reason a cutting is growing roots to begin with is because it’s in survival mode. It’s searching
for food. So, by adding nutrients to a cutting before it has developed a root structure or “a mouth”
if you will, it’s completely defeating the purpose. Save your nutrients until the plant needs them!​

Taking Cuttings and Unit Insertion​

Next, I start taking cuttings from my Mother or Donor plant. I prefer to take them directly from the Mom
right before I’m ready to insert them into the unit. On the average, I take a 4 or 5 inch cutting and leave
2 to 4 leaves on the top. If the leaves are small, I don’t trim them. If they are medium to large, I will trim
half of each leaf off. The reason for this is because the cutting only requires a small leaf area to absorb
a sufficient amount of light to keep it alive. Also, because the cutting does not have a root structure yet,
the leaves are sustained by the amount of moisture that is held in the stem. If the leaves are smaller,
the cutting does not have to work as hard to supply moisture to the leaves, which allows the cutting to
focus its energy on “producing roots”. It also has the added benefit of reducing the overall amount of
leaf area on the top of the Cloner. This prevents some leaves from getting covered by others and
makes for an overall friendlier environment.
As I take each cutting, I will cut it from the Mom with either a sharp razor blade or a quality pair of
trimming shears. Make sure the cutting utensil is clean. It can be sterilized with isopropyl alcohol, a
lighter, or both. I prefer both. I have heard multiple times that it’s necessary for the cutting to be taken
at a 45 degree angle. This is completely false. It does not matter. Just make sure the cut is clean and
the bottom of the cutting is not mangled. Roots will form along the wall of the stem.
Also, I use EZ-CLONE Rooting Gel. After taking each cutting, I place the cutting inside the jar of gel and
let it sit there until I have taken approximately 8 cuttings. This means I have 8 cuttings soaking up the
gel. I pull them out one at a time, insert each cutting into a New Neoprene Collar and place the collar
into the unit. In a 120 unit, there are 15 rows of 8. This is why I take 8 cuttings at a time. I prefer to fill
up a row, take 8 more cuttings, fill up another row, and continue that pattern until the lid is full.
Although the neoprene collars can be reused, I highly recommend using new collars every time you
clone instead of trying to clean the previously used ones. When the collars are used, they can get slime
in the pores, cracks, and creases from various types of additives and I think it’s a bit difficult to
guarantee they get totally clean. I would rather spend the few bucks for new collars and not have to
worry about potentially getting any bad bacteria due the old collars not being cleaned properly.
It is also important to let you know that I do not turn the water pump on until I have the entire unit full of
cuttings and have ph balanced the water. It usually takes about an hour to take 120 cuttings and insert
them into the lid. During this time, the cuttings are still absorbing the gel and an hour is not too long to
wait before turning on the water pump. The clones usually will not wilt within this hour time period, but
if you do get some minor wilting, after you plug the pump in, the clones will perk right back up.​

Water Temperature and Water Chillers​

IMPORTANT!!​

​

​

i had to use spring water for my clones to take, tried every sure fire mothod and none worked till i switched the water

Hey guys thankyou very much for the advice. Ive made some chances and have redone all new clippings and am now gonna see how they do. any more advice is welcome and appreciated.

, I now use a Water Chiller instead of air conditioning. I set the Chiller temperature at 68
degrees and I get better results than I’ve ever seen. The cuttings root within 5-7 days, look absolutely
beautiful, and are able to be pulled from the unit in 10-14 days with about 100% success.[/FONT] [/LEFT][/QUOTE]


MacGuyver4.2.0, I am interested in what kind of water chiller did u buy? i have a clone bucket that the temp gets to high in while cloning.

I still just use solo cups filled halfway and soaked with any dam water including tap water straight. I dont even use powder anymore and still have 100 sucess just put the cutting in the half pro mix filled cup and spray well and cover with plastic wrap. Cups go in the tray in grow room indirectly under light. Cloners look nice but I dont want to have to deal with the cuttings at all after I put them in the cup until its time to transplant which is normally 10-14 days. The lil greenhouse effect in the cup creates fool proof way I can easily see when they stand tall in the cup and also can see if the moisture has left the plastic wrap which is rarely, I re use the plastic wrap as its rubber banded to the cups and comes off easily and laid flat. Good luck no matter what method you choose just get to 100%

never had any issues making clones. for years ( before the advent of all these new fangled "cloning machines" ,which by the way i make all my own), if we found a strain we either wanted to use as genetics or to regrow when we harvested all we did was take a few smaller branches and stick them in a vase full of water on the windowsil. in a matter of a few days they would have roots and we would plant them and grow them out.

ill give you a tip. forget about buying all of the expensive cloning solutions. quite some time back, found a product at the local hardware store called "bromide root and grow". it has damn near identical nute values,and its WAY cheaper (3.99 a bottle). works just as well as any of the higher $$$ cloning solutions.

ill give you another tip. you can buy hundreds of different brands of rooting hormone. it comes in liquid, gels,powders,ect, and is extremely pricey for what you get.

if you live in an area that you can access somewere that has -pussywillow trees growing, you have access to the best rooting hormone/solution you can get. cut yourself several small tender branches and take them home. cut them up into 1" sections and soak them in water for 24-48 hours. when the solutions ready it will look like very weak tea. use this in place of the water and cloning solution, and youll find your cuttings rooting much faster. when i first tried this about 20 years ago, ill never forget it. i put the solution in a vase and stuck some cuttings in it ( well, back then, they were more branches compared to what they call clones today as they were 4x-5x bigger..lol) and believe it or not, i had roots 1" plus WITHIN 2 DAYS TIME. thats the fastest i ever had cuttings root.

anyway, hope this helps. i have my best luck wit clones when the temp is in the 72-78 range.

This post answered all the questions I was having about slow root growth in my DIY cloner... Thanks for the info rep added accordingly.
I read the willow thing in either hightimes or weedworld not to long ago, havnt checked out if they grow near me...

I now know what im going to do right now hahahha.
peace

The whole point of an aerocloner is the leaves dont need to take in moisture which is the point of a dome in the first place.....

I have found great results using a "expensive" if you call $25.00 expensive gel. Specifically clonex I get as I can get to glob on there. Then 1.5 inch rockwool. sitting on something to allow air under the rockwool, and water to drain. Put them in a homemade plastic tent with a small hole for venting and a super low flow misting head hooked to my hydroponic system misting them frequently with low nuts for the first week. And harding the roots by adding more holes in the plastic every day half way though the week. seemed to work for me the first time so i never really tired anything else.. why fix something thats not broke... soryy for the trippy pic and it is not very clear my camera is messed up.

jeff f said:

my 100 percent success way of cloning is the best i could do. now keep in mind, i have fucked up cloning in so many ways and this way has never failed a single plant to fail. and i have done several hunred this way.

get the small jiffy pucks at wally world. swell the up in tap water. cut clones, i always stab the stems with a pin to penetrate it and i do it under water. dip in rooting powder and stick into the swelled puck. now here is the important part, get some empty jars that are very small. i use glass mustard jars. 6 oz but anything small will work. the puck should be let to stand until water stops dripping and doesnt completely soak a paper towel. then drop the clone and cutting in the jar. now take a deep breath, hold it, now breath directly into the jar and close the lid. i do it once a day to put co2 in the system. have yet to have a single cutting to fail this way and believe me, i can fuck up some serious clones, i am horrible at it.

Click to expand...

i must have been really fucked up when i wrote this

1 i dont remember it

2 i dont get 100 percent on clones this way

it is by far my most succesful method i have used. never tried a bubbler though. i probably get 75-80 percent with this method. probably could get a lot closer to 100 if i modified a few things, (my temps flux a lot and i am not very sterile when taking cuttings) but i am satisfied.

All you guys have some really good advice on cloning, and no doubt that most of those methods work just as well as any. But I happen to be an idiot who is broke. So from one broke idiot to another, this is an idiot's guide to cloning.
Remember three things:
1. germination happens at night. IE root growth. Less light = fast clones
2. clones have leafs, so a little light is necessary
3. Germination happens with high levels of humidity
4. a plant must be weaned off of humidity

Easy right? Here's how a broke idiot does it:
Method 1, 100% success. ETA 5+ days. You will need:
Bubble cloner
Bubble cloner is for hydro plants. Bubble clone a plant for soil is not a great idea, but it can still work if you show enough TLC.

You will need:
milk jug
aquarium pump
air hose
bubble stone
cellophane
Cut the milk jug in half, notch the top edge and slip the air hose into the notch. fill the half jug with water and stretch cellophane across the top. Poke small holes in the cellophane to hold your clones. Now just wait.

Method 2, 100% success. ETA 8+ days. You will need:
Large box
Trash bag
Spray Adhesive
Cloning tray, or a tall tub you can lay a clear glass panel over, or plastic, or cellophane if you feel like re wrapping the shit twice a day for two weeks. I use a 12" x 10" x 24" tupperware bin, and a 26"x 12" pane of glass.

Spray the adhesive inside the box and line the box with a trash bag. Simple. Box must be deep enough that the top of your clones are about 16" from the top of the box. Turn the box upside down and poke a hole in the center of the bottom. Run your lamp cord through the hole, tie it in a knot so it doesn't move around. Put your clones in your humidity tray and sit the box over them. Open the humidity tray for at least 60 seconds, twice a day.

To take a clone. Always take a clone from veg, never from flower. The reason is you don't want to risk a hermie ruining your entire crop. You may clone what you think is a mother plant, and trust it, planting it in your garden. Then one day you harvest and see nothing but seeds. That would really suck. Ask me how I know, lol
When you take a clone, always take the clone after the lights go off. The plants are in veg and soaking up light. You are about to revert to germination. You want the plant's pores to be fully closed when you take your clippings so that your clone will remain vibrant and healthy and to ensure no wilting occurs.
Carry a glass of water when you take a clipping, waste not even a second IMMEDIATELY submerge the tip in water. The less air getting into the stem the better. Keep the clones in the glass until you have all your clippings.
Stick the clones in a bowl of water, make your cut under water. When you cut, there will be at least 3 nodes. You will cut a a sharp angle just below the bottom node, almost slicing the node in half. Ever uprooted a plant? Notice how it has that big bulb on the end that the roots grow out of? Physiologically, that's the same part of the plant designed for producing roots. So the nodes root the best. Scrape the stem about an inch up to expose the membrane. This membrane is what makes roots and new growth. Kinda how skin and blood works. Next, make two or three careful slits up the center of the stalk about an inch, not to exceed the height of your angled cut. This seperates the membrane and the plant will rapidly try to heal itself. Good chance you'll kill it this way, too. A safer way would be to make a single slit up the middle.
Do not use clonex or anything like that. Rooting agents are nothing more than a hormone that fills the stem tip with vital nutrients in case it lacks nutrients from the cutting. Clonex is not necessary and usually people use WAY too much of it. I watched a video of a guy soaking his clone in clonex for 30 seconds. The next video, all his clones died and he wondered why. Nutrient suffocation. If you're hungry, what good comes from forcing half a turkey down your throat until you die? If you use clonex, the proper way to do it is smear it on a plate, and take a wet clone and barely press the tip into the gel. If you can see the color of the cloning gel over the green of your plant, you are using far too much. I have seen success come either way, it happens. But for the most part, it is generally a bad idea.
Clip off all the growth except the new growth in the top center, and the two highest fan leafs. Cut the fan leafs back by half. You don't want your plant to veg. You want it to germinate, so by removing the leafs, the plant has more energy to focus on healing itself, and less leaf to feed.
Let's recap. Take a clipping and stick it in a glass. Cut a sharp angle on the third node, underwater. Scrape the bottom inch of stem and stick in cloner/cloning medium and trim leafs. Give fresh air twice a day, mist the inside of your dome or glass. Keep a 23 watt cfl blue light 10" above the tops of the clones. Keep in controlled area for temps and humidity (a box) [the CFL will provide a steady 87*]. That's it. That easy. If you need me to elaborate and get scientific as to how it works, or to explain my method a little better, or with pics and even instructables, just message me. Read the next comment for transplanting

When you transplant, do not use a potent soil like fox farm, straight out of the bag. You might kill your clone. With brands like fox farm ocean forest, you will want to add maybe 50% perlite and flush the medium with 3 gallons of water. don't worry, this stuff has PLENTY of nutes, and it has worms, so turning the soil over brings it back to life almost instantly. Or 1 cup of fresh fox farm mixed with used fox farm will reactivate it. When you harvest your plant, pull out the biggest roots, and let the rest go completely dry for a week or so. Stir it to make sure the leftover roots dried up. Now, mix with one cup of fresh fox farm and flush with a gallon of water. Presto, instant recycled soil with just as many nutes as when you first opened the bag.
So flush the soil with a few gallons of water. Plant your clone in the soil. You can bury it all the way up to the leafs if you want. This will keep your clone a little shorter and use the extra stalk for later root development. But it isnt an easy maneuver. Best to plant them like normal, with your rockwool, etc, an inch below the soil.
Cut the top off of a 2 liter bottle and sit over the plant. Now you have a humidity dome for soil. Every day, take the dome off for an hour or so to see how the plant will respond. You have to gradually move from clone to veg, best to do it under a blue CFL. The lack of humidity, the colder air, the light intensity and the nutrients in the soil could kill them. They are essentially seedlings, afterall.
Me? I don't go straight to foxfarm. I plant my clones in 5x5 pots with peat and perlite. Then, after two weeks, I transplant them to fox farm in 3 gal potting bags. I have never had to use a humidity dome for transplanting when i did it like this, and my clones always lived. Unless I fucked with them. Roots are super brittle, and if you go looking for roots, there's a great chance that you'll destroy the root simply by finding it.
Oh... but you're growing hydro? Okay, then in that case, when you pull your clones from your bubble cloner, they can go straight into the net pots. I would line the bottom with coco coir and make sure the yellow on the stem, not just the roots and rockwool, is completely covered by your medium. For those using DWC method, make sure the water level is high enough to reach the bottom 1/4 of the rockwool. As your roots grow, lower the water so that the roots are always submerged, but there is always a 1" gap between the water and the net pots. This gives about 15% of the roots straight air and ensures they don't drown. When using nutrients, start off by adding a diluted mixture, maybe 1/4. Then each feeding, bump it up to half, then the full amount. Then increase it as the weeks go according to the manufacturer.
Same applies for aero, fogging, gravity feeding, top feeding, ebb and flow, etc etc etc, with the difference being the water level.
If THAT doesnt work, I'm coming over to show you how to do it, and you'll owe me $5