Coco: Tips, techniques, and the facts you will need

Discussion in 'Drain-To-Waste Hydro' started by burgertime2010, Mar 30, 2013.

  1.  
    burgertime2010

    burgertime2010 Well-Known Member

    iHello, I started this thread because I wanted to streamline the process for newbies to Coco by starting with some facts that will help. So, Coco in the bag is typically 6.1ph and depending on the quality and brand has been pre-rinsed, buffered and ready to go. Breaking the buffer is the first thing on your list assuming the coco hasn't been conditioned. Our objective is to rinse the coco with large amounts of water containing Cal-mag @120ppm and 200ppm of Veg solution at a ph of 5.8. This breaks the medium of its tendency to drift towards 6.1PH. So, once 5.8 is reached the runoff will indicate so. Breaking this buffer is an extremely important concept to coco growers to understand in order optimize the process at the very beginning. Periodically, this same technique is used to flush the excess fertilizer(salts) that build up and refresh the buffer to 5.8. PH but more on that later. Next, Coco has the tendency to hold on to Calcium and Magnesium making supplementing more necessary and is one of the few issues with this medium. I usually mix 30% Perlite into my coco to aerate as well as help offset these types of issues. When watering coco, a runoff of 20% is recommended so buildup does not occur...do not top off as a habit. The frequency of watering coco varies upon container size, environmental factors, plant size, and preference. In the early grow, when roots are still small 2x week is standard but periods between feedings can run up to 5-6 days. Late in blooming, when the roots are working to keep large plants up, everyday feedings are not uncommon and over-watering is no longer an issue. Never let the coco dry through!! Use an inoculant, Liquid Kelp as well as Mycorhizzae strengthen your plant in it's infancy against disease and promote root growth making for bigger, faster growing, and more vibrant vegetative plants. The coco has a natural insulation that keeps it from temperature being a real issue. Pest control is a wise investment as a preventative measure. Neem oil, and/or Systemic pesticides are commonly used against pests that thrive in the cocosphere. Keep it CLEAN!! no dead leaves, no gnats, no tolerance!!! In short, Decay brings insects, insects bring diseases and damage plant vigor. Your nutrient selection is a personal decision, I know it is difficult to chose, but with so many to choose from I cannot say what the one to use is publicly. Feel free to message me though. I will continue to add important information, as need becomes evident and feel free to ask questions as well. As for the Coco-pros, please add anything that you find important, fresh, or interesting.
     
  2.  
    burgertime2010

    burgertime2010 Well-Known Member

    Coco really spoke to me when I first saw the glow of a plant that was that happy. It felt more like the soil grows I had done before and it was pragmatic for space reasons. It just seemed easier to me so I went looking for advice and I got a lot of it. Unfortunately, I needed the fundamentals more than product suggestions and besides time and money I wasted the under-rated initial satisfaction of growing beautiful herb. Keeping that in mind, I want to help you get the best info possible right off the bat. I realize there is other huge and well established threads on this subject, but the time to split seemed right. Easy access to good information is hard to find and beginners need both to hit the ground running.
     
  3.  
    hellraizer30

    hellraizer30 Rebel From The North

    That glow is what hooked me! Now im sold and slowly boxing up all my ebb systems and converting all the ebb tables :)
     
  4.  
    burgertime2010

    burgertime2010 Well-Known Member

    So, this is your 2nd round with Coco? What kind of nutrients u using?
     
  5.  
    hellraizer30

    hellraizer30 Rebel From The North

    Starting the third...
    canna a/b
    cannazyme
    1/2 strength ryzo
    1/2 strength roots excel
    aptus start boost
    aptus fisiltor
    orca
    carboload
    drip clean
     
  6.  
    GreenThumbSucker

    GreenThumbSucker Well-Known Member

    I have converted two rooms to coco so far. Going perpetual. Just using base nutes and calmag.

    I'm curious what PPMs people are running with their coco grows? Im running pretty low for flowering, 600 PPM - 650 PPM. 100 - 150 PPMs of this is calmag. Only about 500 PPM are flowering nutes. They look just like hydroponically grown plants. Very glowing green. Greener and glowier than with straight hydro. Im using beneficials which I have resisted for ages, along with synthetic nutrients.

    My PH is going in at about 5.8. I haven't tested the runoff to see what it's coming out at.

    Would be nice to see some standardized PH, PPM ratios, etc. for coco growing. All the information Im finding online is all over the map.
     
    Eric Pettit likes this.
  7.  
    hellraizer30

    hellraizer30 Rebel From The North

    For the hungry bitches i go 1150 to 1200 and light feeders get 900ppm
     
  8.  
    GreenThumbSucker

    GreenThumbSucker Well-Known Member

    How much run off do you allow and do you flush them?
     
  9.  
    hellraizer30

    hellraizer30 Rebel From The North

    I shoot for 10% run off

    but right now im geting 5gal for every 30gal run.
    only flush is at the end and going into bloom
     
  10.  
    burgertime2010

    burgertime2010 Well-Known Member

    Standardization means agreement.....don't hold your breath. 5.8 is the recommended and it has worked well in coco. In Coco, you are potentially flushing with each watering. 10-20% runoff helps to curtail salt buildup assuming you water often. I will say this, there are some ideas for a good coco grow. 1. never let the medium dry 2.less is more 3. Coco holds calcium/mag so supplementation is necessary. 4. Flush @ 1/4 strength-never pure h20. 5. Root Vigor will dictate plants appetite, metabolism, and potential for buildup... I go about it drawing a reservoir at 800-900 at the beginning of flowering with A/B, bennies, carbs for bennies, cal-mag, hygrozyme, pro-tekt, liquid seaweed etc. Day 1, feed and go. Day 2, dilute by 150 ppm. Day 3, dilute 150 ppm more Day 4, dilute to 500 ppm. Day 5 repeat. In the 3rd week, I use cal-mag more aggressively and my recipe changes, I increase PPMs by 100-200 but keep the dilution aspect in use. Also, I discontinue beneficials. Essentially, the plant dictates a good amount....I am rambling.
     
    Screaming trees and Highocaine like this.
  11.  
    GreenThumbSucker

    GreenThumbSucker Well-Known Member

    One day I watered mine with straight water to use up built up salts. Next morning I had some nute deficiency. The tips of all the big leaves on every plant were bend downward. Apparently there were no salts built up at all, and just like they would have in traditional hydro they immediately showed a deficiency. Crazy.

    So you discontinue beneficials after the third week? Why is this? I have read that many people do not use them at the end.
     
    upnsmoke13 likes this.
  12.  
    burgertime2010

    burgertime2010 Well-Known Member

    I stop because my root space is colonized and does not need external sources anymore. They just need carbs for food. I might give them another dose after a flush or when I know the coco is at lower ppms. They do not like high P or K levels that come with flowering typically. Also, they are expensive.
     
  13.  
    growinman

    growinman Well-Known Member

    Bump:-P
    I too have just made this switch to coco; well, I am in the process as I write this, lol. I am switching over from a GH AF20 and a 4x6 flood/drain table, only ever having used hydroton as a medium. I do my clones in a diy aero cloner 45 site. Now, getting them into 'party(like) cups' that are a bit smaller around, more durable, and are 6" deep. I put a hole in the center on bottom and one up the side a 1/2" or so so it'll be able to drain when on flat surface. This is just a tester.
    How do I get the rooted clone into the fiber(went 25% perlite for the clone mix and I haev royalgold coco plain)?? Is there an easy way without destroying the roots? I got one in, pia, and got it in the veg room under a 400mh with the moms.
    I switched from canna nutes to csn17 grow and I have the bloom too, now finding out I want the ripe instead...? I mixed a weak solution at about 6.0, 600ppm and a dash of great white and aquasheild....and ran it through the coco it's in now: so we'll see.......
    Question: Can a batch(5 gal?) of nute mix be made at a time and drawn from. NOT something as complicated as the OP's? It sounds great and all, but is that all necessary. I figure if I just do like 5 gal of whatever ppm I figure is necessary, cant I put a pump/floomer in the res to keep it circulating and fresh and just use what I need as I need it?? Idk??
    Thanks for any help....this thread is/was a great idea....yeah, lots out there many pages too deep........problem being by the time I find what I am looking for I am already on something else reading that's intersting, or pics, or...........yah know.....

    Peace
    gman

    peace
    gman
     
  14.  
    burgertime2010

    burgertime2010 Well-Known Member

    Absolutely....you can mix and feed right there. I would let it circulate for 20 min, I pre-mix multiple feedings worth of nutrient solution and keep a small pump or airstone circulating it. Ph it before using and don't let it warmer than 70.
     
  15.  
    djwimbo

    djwimbo Active Member

    What do you guys use for PH +/- ?
    I know there's some debate over what's best, but I'm not going organic, so I don't know how much it matters. And organic people claim that you don't need to worry about PH when you're a pro.

    To Lower PH:
    AN uses phosphoric acid
    Earth Juice uses citric acid
    Hades uses Fulvic acid
    TechnaFlora uses nitric acid
    I don't know what's in General Hydroponics, or the other brands that I know are readily available.

    I was planning on using the Canna line, and add CaMg(Gen.Org.) as needed.
     
  16.  
    burgertime2010

    burgertime2010 Well-Known Member

    I do 5.8 PH every time and it works very well. I use store bought ph up and down. The organic people don't PH? I haven't heard of that,but, I can say that for your purposes it will matter. Definitely, get Cal-Mag.
     
  17.  
    djwimbo

    djwimbo Active Member

    I guess my concerns are if I use a nitric acid or a phosphoric acid, if it will effect the nute ratio or be harmful to any microbes.
     
  18.  
    burgertime2010

    burgertime2010 Well-Known Member

    The microbes will be fine if you add them after the solution is PHed. The PH Up/Down is very concentrated and will have no impact on nutritional values.
     
    djwimbo likes this.
  19.  
    growinman

    growinman Well-Known Member

    :arrow:Thanks burgertime!:hump: That's kind of what I figured; plus just the idea of mixing a gallon here and there and pH'ing....would be difficult. I am not using very much at all yet as I am just vegging a few clones that just got roots.
    Thanks again!

    :weed:gman
     
  20.  
    burgertime2010

    burgertime2010 Well-Known Member

    Good luck. Less is More.
     

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