Decriminalization YES!...PROP 19 NO!

Yes/no prop 19. Exsplain your answer.

  • YES

    Votes: 57 62.6%
  • NO

    Votes: 34 37.4%

  • Total voters
    91

vradd

Active Member
obama has already said the DEA will not be enforcing marijuana related enquires. unless they were speaking soley on the enforcing the medicinal portion of it.

and if the DEA does try to step foot into it, that shows how much of a hypocrite our govt is and what our nation was founded upon.

the whole reason why we have states is so that each state can regulate govt. within its boundaries.

so unless something drastic happens. im ALSO voting yes. this bill ONLY affects those who want to come up on everyone else. big business will always run stuff. its part of our countries roots. but if this bill does allow the common folk to smoke safely within the confines of their home, im for it.
 

stonedmetalhead1

Well-Known Member
obama has already said the DEA will not be enforcing marijuana related enquires. unless they were speaking soley on the enforcing the medicinal portion of it.

and if the DEA does try to step foot into it, that shows how much of a hypocrite our govt is and what our nation was founded upon.

the whole reason why we have states is so that each state can regulate govt. within its boundaries.

so unless something drastic happens. im ALSO voting yes. this bill ONLY affects those who want to come up on everyone else. big business will always run stuff. its part of our countries roots. but if this bill does allow the common folk to smoke safely within the confines of their home, im for it.
First, Obama said a lot of thing none of which held any water. Obama was referring to not funding the DEA in pursuing medical areeset but they still happen. The medical bill does not go against federal law but legalization does. You can think what you want but the Feds are going to have a field day if this passes not to mention it's a horribly written bill.
 

PROP.19

Member
A new Field Poll, one of the most respected polls in California, has us up 7 points -- 49-42. That's an 11 point swing from their last poll in July.
 
A new Field Poll, one of the most respected polls in California, has us up 7 points -- 49-42. That's an 11 point swing from their last poll in July.
wow!!!!!!!! It's Mr 19 himself finally making an appearance with a poll to motivate everyone that its a close race. When the truth is that any responsible adult that consciously votes and is able to read and COMPREHEND will be voting no on this prop. If you think that 5x5 is a lot you must live in a studio or with your mom
 
Same trick every elections!!!!! These politicians are banking on the kids to get this to pass. You only gotta be 18 to vote. But 21 to smoke.
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
Same trick every elections!!!!! These politicians are banking on the kids to get this to pass. You only gotta be 18 to vote. But 21 to smoke.
Exactly. You are old enough to vote, serve your country, pay taxes and be imprisoned. Certainly not old enough to decide things like alcohol or cannabis consumption.
 

sniffer

Well-Known Member
i think we should vote Yes ,
lets just get it going , , and we can fix and change the law as we go.
We the People will tell them how it will be !!!
:D
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
i think we should vote Yes ,
lets just get it going , , and we can fix and change the law as we go.
We the People will tell them how it will be !!!
:D
Sure. Voter initiatives are so easy to change after the fact. Excellent brain-off strategy. :clap:
 
Exactly. You are old enough to vote, serve your country, pay taxes and be imprisoned. Certainly not old enough to decide things like alcohol or cannabis consumption.
butt hurt? That's cause truth hurts. This prop is written in a way to appeal to the youth
Cause responsible adults that can not only read, but also COMPREHEND and understand how it will be interpreted by laws enforcement and local government. When I say kid I mean someone who hasn't experience LIFE. It's already legal so how can we vote to make it legal. Thats cause we are not voting to make it legal we are voting to add more laws and more tax.
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
butt hurt? That's cause truth hurts. This prop is written in a way to appeal to the youth
Cause responsible adults that can not only read, but also COMPREHEND and understand how it will be interpreted by laws enforcement and local government. When I say kid I mean someone who hasn't experience LIFE. It's already legal so how can we vote to make it legal. Thats cause we are not voting to make it legal we are voting to add more laws and more tax.
Uhh...you need to slow down and do some of that comprehending you're going on about. My comments were a sardonic support of opposition to 19. The point being that if one is old enough to fight and die for this country they SHOULD have the right to decide what to partake in. I appreciate your sentiment and fervor for opposing 19. I would suggest you check your targets a little better from now on before you tirade away.
 
Uhh...you need to slow down and do some of that comprehending you're going on about. My comments were a sardonic support of opposition to 19. The point being that if one is old enough to fight and die for this country they SHOULD have the right to decide what to partake in. I appreciate your sentiment and fervor for opposing 19. I would suggest you check your targets a little better from now on before you tirade away.
No time for sarcasm. This is serious business
 

MeJuana

Well-Known Member
When I went to school the government literally used brain washing tactics with a movie spreading lies, one in particular I remember Mary used to love to get high and then one day she became a vegetable forever! The government has done everything they can to make the rest of us agree it is bad.. Such as classifying mj as a schedule 1 drug, continued brain washing calling it the gateway drug and etc.. The government has led us around with their lies for years the baby boomers would never have considered voting yes if the economy didn't suck right now but they are now!! Right now because of money people are considering legalizing marijuana and we can have a real chance to prove it is even less harmful then cigarettes. Yeah I have fears I did research a lot of them but with all that research I think Marc Emery said it best.
 

mccumcumber

Well-Known Member
This could just be my interpretation of the prop, but from what I gathered, I don't see 215 being superseded. I think that a step towards legalization is a step towards progression, and I'm going to take said steps.
 

homer371

Well-Known Member
Come on, are you kidding? You're going to vote against the biggest step toward legalization of marijuana that THE WORLD has seen in our lifetime?

Ok, that may not have been a good explanation. Here are some of my many pros for Prop 19, as a consumer (medical and otherwise) of pot. If you are a seller, some of these points may not matter to you. But think about the 95% of us who just want to use, legally. Do it for us. I'm not a witch. I'm you.

If you're a consumer (medical or otherwise) and considering voting no, please read my PROs and tell me why you would want to deny us these rights:

PROS OF PROP 19:

1) It will be legal to posess 1 oz. This is much better than the current decrim bill, because first, no $100 fine, and second, the smell of pot on you will no longer be "probable cause" to search you. No more fucking paranoia. No more $100 fine. Legal.

2) It will be legal to grow your own pot in your home. 25 square feet = 31 5-gallon buckets. Awesome!!! Plus, you get to keep all your harvest, even if it surpasses your 1 oz limit. That is fucking great. Think about it.

3) No new limitations on 215 patients. It's explicitly stated in the law. Everyone who says otherwise is not interpreting the text correctly.

4) Research and medicine. We will have much more state funding for research on the benefits of marijuana compounds, including CBD's. There's already evidence that some of these kill cancer cells, and this could be hugely important for advances in cancer treatment. Plus, so much research could be done on the mind-altering effects of THC and help us understand how our brains process information and why our perception of music, art, food is enhanced.

I could go on and on, but I just want to say: seriously guys. Of course Prop 19 is flawed. All laws are. Local regulations will address the issues. But think of the bigger picture. We have a huge opportunity to get a big step closer to what we all want. We need to seize this opportunity!


And for those of you concerned about losing profits on your current pot business, you may have legitimate concerns. But think about the rest of us. You were one of us, once. Cannabis is the people's weed. Let's open a big door by voting:

YES ON 19.
 

colonuggs

Well-Known Member
Currently under the California Constitution, ‘growing crops’ are exempt from ‘taxation’, AND in order for a local government to impose a ‘general tax’ it must be approved by the electorate with a majority vote.

Prop 19 effectively overrides these precedents of the California constitution in regards to Cannabis by giving local governments the authority to tax a ‘growing crop’ WITHOUT LIMITATION AND WITHOUT A MAJORITY VOTE OF THE LOCAL PEOPLE




...........................................................DECONSTRUCTING PROP 19 - HOW YOU LOSE YOUR RIGHTS...................................................................

The question posed is this:


Does Proposition 19 have an effect on the California Compassionate Use Act, also known as 215, and other laws which protect the rights of medical Cannabis patients? If so, what kind of effect does it have?
After reading this paper you will understand exactly how prop 19 takes away your right to CULTIVATE under 215 and People V. Kelly, WHICH by the way is UNLIMITED. This is because, under 215, you have the right to grow ANY AMOUNT OF CANNABIS you need to meet your health needs. Prop 19 replaces this right with a 5 x 5 square foot garden which can be taxed “WITHOUT LIMITATION”.


In order to understand how prop 19 does this, we must deconstruct the text itself…



In Section 2B, Paragraph 1 of the Act, it states its purpose is to “Reform California's cannabis laws”. What are California’s Cannabis laws? Does the Controlled Substance Act qualify as a “California Cannabis law”? Yes. Does 215 qualify as a “California Cannabis law”? Yes. This is evidence that the “purpose” of prop 19 was to reform, among other laws, 215.



In Section 2B, Paragraph 3 of the Act, it states its purpose is to “Implement a legal regulatory framework to give California more control over the cultivation…of cannabis”. Does ‘implementing more control’ over the ‘cultivation’ of Cannabis effect 215? Yes. Why? Because cultivation is central to the rights that are protected for medical Cannabis patients under 215. It is a right that is currently unlimited by any state controls. Your health needs are the only limitation in this regard and has the ability to satisfy all cultivation rights you would need.



For example If your growing for Cannabis oil to heal your cancer, or perhaps for Cannabis seed as a nutritious food source, it could take HUNDREDS of plants and THOUSANDS of SQAURE FOOTAGE to meet your health needs.



Section 2B, Paragraph 7 & 8 of prop 19 directly mentions 215, but in what regard?



Paragraph 7 states that if a city decides to not tax and regulate Cannabis, then it shall remain illegal to buy and sell Cannabis within the cities limits, BUT it says “that the city's citizens still have the right to possess and consume small amounts, except as permitted under”, and then it cites 215 and SB 420. Does this protect medical Cannabis patients right to possess and consume under 215? Yes. Does it protect their right to cultivate? No, the right to cultivate is not mentioned or protected in that paragraph.



Paragraph 8 is very similar to Paragraph 7, though instead of protecting the right to “possess and consume” under 215 and SB 420, it protects the right to “buy and sell”. Does this protect the right to cultivate under 215? No, again cultivation is not mentioned.



Section C, Paragraph 1 lists many of the laws which are intended to be limited by Prop 19 and states “This Act is intended to limit the application and enforcement of state and local laws relating to…cultivation…of cannabis, including but not limited to the following”, the act then fails to list 215. Does this mean that prop 19 was NOT intended to “limit the application” of 215? No. The Paragraph clearly states that the laws which are intended to be limited are NOT ‘limited to the following’, meaning that the list is NOT exhaustive and COULD include 215.



Section C, Paragraph 2 lists the laws which are NOT intended to be limited by prop 19 and states “This Act is not intended to affect the application or enforcement of the following state laws relating to public health…”, this paragraph then fails to list 215.



This means that prop 19 does NOT specifically protect 215 from being limited. If prop 19 was NOT intended to limit 215, why wasn’t 215 listed in Paragraph 2 of Section C? Does 215 relate to public health? Yes. Is this list intended to be exhaustive? Yes, because unlike in Paragraph 1 of the same Section, Paragraph 2 does not include the phrase “not limited to the following”, which means that out of all the laws that were NOT intended to be limited by prop 19, 215 is NOT ONE OF THEM.



Prop 19 then makes its intent unequivocally clear:



Under Section 3 of proposition 19, at Commercial Regulations and Controls it states:



“Notwithstanding any other provision of state or local law, a local government may adopt ordinances, regulations, or other acts having the force of law to control, license, regulate, permit or otherwise authorize, with conditions, the following:

cultivation…of cannabis…”





As defined at www.dictionary.net, the word “notwithstanding” is literally defined as follows:



In spite of (despite anything to the contrary).



So in other words, Proposition 19 states the following:



“In spite of any other provision of state or local law to the contrary, a local government may adopt ordinances, regulations, or other acts having the force of law to control, license, regulate, permit or otherwise authorize, with conditions, the following:

cultivation…of cannabis…”





Does the Controlled Substances Act qualify as “any other provision of state or local law”? Yes. Does 215 qualify as “any other provision of state or local law”? Yes.



Do the Commercial Regulations and Controls over Cannabis cultivation imposed by prop 19 OVERRIDE the cultivation rights under 215? Yes, because those controls are active despite any other provision of law, which includes not only the Controlled Substances Act, but 215 as well.



In the implementation of Cannabis taxes, regulations, and controls, prop 19 does NOT distinguish between PERSONAL and MEDICAL cultivation.



This means that your UNLIMITED right to cultivate for your health needs which is protected under 215 and People V. Kelly, is being replaced by the “Commercial Regulations and Controls” and “Personal Regulations and Controls” imposed in Section 3 of prop 19.



This means that local governments have absolute control over all Cannabis cultivation, limited only to a 5 x 5 space, AND Pursuant to Section 3 of Proposition 19, under “Imposition and Collection of Taxes and Fees” local governments have an unlimited authority to TAX all Cannabis cultivation, despite the medical cultivation rights that are protected under 215.



Cities such as Long Beach and Rancho Cordova are already implementing the imposition of outrageous Cannabis cultivation taxes by the square foot if Proposition 19 passes. These taxes also do NOT distinguish between medical and personal cultivation.



So in conclusion, Prop 19 LIMITS your cultivation rights under 215 to a 5 x 5 square foot garden which can be taxed “without limitation“.



And because Section 3 authorizes “a local government” to “adopt ordinances, regulations, or other acts having the force of law to control, license, regulate, permit or otherwise authorize…cultivation of cannabis…”, and because Section 3 allows local governments to impose taxes “without limitation”, their ability to impose taxes on personal cultivation is UNLIMITED and can be imposed WITHOUT A LOCAL VOTE.
 

mccumcumber

Well-Known Member
Prop 19 just got amended and now has absolutely no affect on 215 patients, making them exempt from tax as well! The general public can now carry a pound with them at all times too! But, go ahead and find another reason to hate prop 19, it's getting comical.
 

colonuggs

Well-Known Member
show me where 19 got amended.....usually amendments take place after its a law

The General public can now carry 16 ozs on them?????...show me where this is written.... mabey 1 oz

Not that I dont believe you bro........but I like to read this info myself.....Could you show us the link or article stating that all medical users..... are or will be.... tax exempt under 19
 

mccumcumber

Well-Known Member


show me where 19 got amended.....usually amendments take place after its a law

The General public can now carry 16 ozs on them?????...show me where this is written.... mabey 1 oz

Not that I dont believe you bro........but I like to read this info myself.....Could you show us the link or article stating that all medical users..... are or will be.... tax exempt under 19​
here you go!
http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bil...ntroduced.html
 
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