Do Your Plants Know the Difference Between Organic and Inorganic Fertilizers?

CrackerJax

New Member
I will agree with the premise that a local organic farm can offer you better tasting produce (tomatoes, corn) compared to chain food grocery produce.

The main reason for this is not which fertilizer type was used, but freshness. Local organic farms can get their fruit to market fresher. That more than anything makes the difference.

You will pay extra for it however. That is the main complaint in places such as Africa. They are forced to grow organically because they cannot afford to but chemical fertilizers. Their harvest yields are far lower per acre because of this. Their organic fertilizer is basically free, but they are punished on the other side of the equation because of it.

Offer up 1000lbs. of organic fertilizer for free to him OR 1000lbs. of chemical fertilizer for free.

I think we can all agree on which one that African farmer will take.
 

kickflipdipstik

Well-Known Member
It is estimated that if we all went organic we would reduce our food supply by 30%.

There is no going backwards to organics for commercial farming. Niche organic farming still has a market, only because some ppl are willing to spend the extra cash for the organic produce.

Chemical and organic are practically the same, it's just that chemical is so much more efficient.
Can you site your source please? You are dumbing down the population right now by buying into corporation propaganda. To say it kindly, you make me sick. I wonder if you have ever grown anything organically or if you have just used chemicals and it worked for you so now you preach it. To test your theories stated earlier than this quote that chemical fertilizers are better because the provide "exactly" what the plants need and what your body needs I urge you to become a vegan for just two days. On the first day, go to your local wal-mart or w/e kind of corporate supermarket you have near you and look at the numbers on your produce, get ones that start with a 4. Eat nothing but produce that starts with a 4 or an 8 (if it starts with an 8 it means its GMO which I assume you pry think is better for the environment and your mind body and soul as well) The next day eat nothing but produce that starts with a 9 (9 means it's organic) and test and record on both days, the time after eating your meals when you became hungry again and the time before each meals. And also to clarify to make sure that you don't further dumb down the population, NPK are by no means the ONLY elements that plants need to survive. There are more than 20 essential elements required for healthy, complete, and satisfied plants. I know this because I'm a horticulture major. You also claim that the food supply would drop by 30% if we stopped using chemical fertilizers. That may be the case on the QUANTITY but how about the quality? How can you know for sure? Does the US practice sustainable agriculture or f*ck the next generation agriculture? That's an easy one, farmers in the US are required by Monsanto to practice F*ck the next generation agriculture. If you accept the challenge you will find the organic food to be more filling and will provide you with more energy. "It is estimated that conventionally grown produce (aka chemical fertilizers, the one's you rave about being amazing for our very existence and our economy) have 1/10th the nutritional value of organically grown ones." It's your body man you can do what you want with it I just pray that you will stop spreading this propaganda BS all over the Internet, there's enough out there already so please keep your propaganda in your pants man. If you like chemicals and think NPK are the essential elements of life on Earth then keep playing with your chemicals in your basement but don't try to preach that it is better for the world. And the correct you there should be a reverse in commercial farming but Monsanto won't allow it. Sustainable agriculture is better for the environment and our well-being it just requires a bit more manual labor. I'm not sure if you know this but proper drainage is necessary in soil and all those combines and tractors driving over fields season after season does the exact opposite. Why do people have to spray their crops with so much pesticides and fertilizers? Hmm maybe because commercial farming has ruined that soil. If chemicals are so efficient then why do you have to keep applying them every time you water your plants? Would it not be more efficient to create health soil then water plants with pure water such as distilled water? Or maybe you find breaking out PH meters and TDS meters every time you go to water your plants to be more efficient. Sure chemicals will make them grow faster but they will be incomplete. Just like how the US feeds cows corn, if corn is so great to need to force feed it to them why didn't cows start eating corn instead of grass on their own. Put corn and grass in front of a cow, which will it choose? Hmm probably the one it's supposed to, the grass, they have 5 stomachs for a reason. If plants could talk they would tell you to stop the chemical shit you buy from corporation and pesticides and to just give them the natural organic healthy complete soils. It will be more efficient because you won't need to give them pesticides to keep them safe just like if you eat right you won't need a pill for every ill. 90% of all soybeans in the US are GMO, 80% of all corn. 90% of all seeds introduced to the US prior to 1950 have been wiped out. Corporations control commercial farming and apparently your mind. I urge you to break free and see the light of day. http://healthwyze.org/index.php/avoiding-gmo-frankenfoods.html Good day and I apologize to all of those who listened to this maniacs propaganda or I mean "advice" Use your brains people. CrackerJax for the love of God put that big mac down.

Respectfully,
-Kick
 

kickflipdipstik

Well-Known Member
I will agree with the premise that a local organic farm can offer you better tasting produce (tomatoes, corn) compared to chain food grocery produce.

The main reason for this is not which fertilizer type was used, but freshness. Local organic farms can get their fruit to market fresher. That more than anything makes the difference.

You will pay extra for it however. That is the main complaint in places such as Africa. They are forced to grow organically because they cannot afford to but chemical fertilizers. Their harvest yields are far lower per acre because of this. Their organic fertilizer is basically free, but they are punished on the other side of the equation because of it.

Offer up 1000lbs. of organic fertilizer for free to him OR 1000lbs. of chemical fertilizer for free.

I think we can all agree on which one that African farmer will take.
If he has a brain unlike you he will take the organic buddy. He hasn't the money to be worth it to the corporations to be exploited, not yet anyways.
 

Coolwhip

Member
I only read the first couple pages, I can't believe this thread got this long.

OF COURSE Organic is better. Petrochemical fertilizers ARE effective, cheap, and easy to apply in mass. And when compared to regular dirt give you great results.

But chemical fertilizers can not replicate the symbiotic relationship between living organic soil and the plants growing in it. The microorganisms and fungi feed the plant in ways
chemical fertilizers never could. It is like a second root system that predigests the food for the plant.

There is even beginning to be real scientific evidence supporting the benefits of organics.

http://www.grist.org/article/new-study-weighs-in-on-organicconventional-debate/

"The study design was both careful and comprehensive in scope. The strawberries were grown on 13 conventional and 13 organic fields, with organic/conventional field pairs located adjacently in order to control for soil type and weather patterns. The data was drawn from repeated harvests over a two-year period, and the strawberries were picked, transported, and stored under identical conditions to replicate retail practices. And just as farming is a complex business, scientists contributing to the study range from soil and food scientists to genetics experts and statistics specialists, who analyzed 31 soil properties, soil DNA, and the relative taste and nutritional quality of three strawberry varieties in California."
 

perkie

Active Member
The way that it is, is we are killing and destroyin our living planet with all this inorganic,man made, quick fix solotion because of money an time. off course you get quicker and better yeilds this way but that only because of all that crap in the first place. it i proven that organic is better tasting and it is proven that inorganic kill the soil. so if it can kill that, what u think its doing to us slowly?? dont get me wrong it is going to take hardwork to restore the soil at first but once done,then onwards we would just have to keep ontop of it by adding manures that are free to hand and our kitchen waste, Again free to hand. its simple. i know i have gone off here abit but im sure u get me drift. plants do know, just like some of us do.. Peace
 

Nullis

Moderator
"Most gardeners think of plants as only taking up nutrients through roots systems and feeding the leaves. Few realize that a great deal of the energy that results from photosynthesis in the leaves is actually used by plants to produce chemicals they secrete through their roots. These secretions are known as exudates. A good analogy is perspiration, a humans exudate.

Roots exudate in the form of carbohydrates (including sugars) and proteins. Amazingly, their presence wakes up, attracts, and grows specific beneficial bacteria and fungi living in the soil that subsist on these exudates and the cellular material sloughed off as the plant's root tips grow. All this secretion of exudates and sloughing off of cells takes place in the rhizosphere, a zone immediately around the roots, extending out about a tenth of an inch, or a couple of millimeters. The rhizosphere, which can look like a jelly or jam under the electron microscope, contains a constantly changing mix of soil organisms. All of this "life" competes for the exudates in the rhizosphere, or its water or mineral content.

At the bottom of the soil food web are bacteria and fungi, which are attracted to and consume plant root exudates. In turn, they attract and are eaten by bigger microbes, specifically nematodes and protozoa, who eat bacteria and fungi (primarily for carbon) to fuel their metabolic functions. Anything they don't need is excreted as wastes, which plant roots are readily able to absorb as nutrients. How convenient that this production of plant nutrients takes place right in the rhizosphere, the site of root-nutrient absorption.

At the center of any viable soil food web are plants. Plants control the food web for their own benefit, an amazing fact this is too little understood and surely not appreciated by gardeners who are constantly interfering with Nature's system. Studies indicate that individual plants can control the numbers and the different kinds of fungi and bacteria attracted to the rhizosphere by the exudates they produce. During different times of the growing season, populations of rhizosphere bacteria and fungi wax and wane, depending on the nutrient needs of the plant and exudates it produces.

Soil and bacteria are like small bags of fertilizer, retaining in their bodies nitrogen and other nutrients they gain from root exudates and other organic matter (such as those sloughed off root tip cells). Carrying on the analogy, soil protozoa and nematodes act as "fertilizer spreaders" by releasing the nutrients locked up in the bacteria and fungi "fertilizer bags". The nematodes and protozoa in the soil come along and eat the bacteria and fungi in the rhizosphere. They digest what they need to survive and excrete excess carbon and other nutrients as waste.

Left to their own devices, then, plants produce exudates that attract fungi and bacteria (and, ultimately, nematodes and protozoa); their survival depends on the interplay between these microbes. It is a completely natural system, the very same one that has fueled plants since they evolved. Soil life provides the nutrients needed for plant life, and plants initiate and fuel the cycle by producing exudates."

There's the tip of the ice-burg for you. That is an excerpt from the very first chapter of the book "Teaming with Microbes" by Jeff Lowenfels & Wayne Lewis.
 

Chunky

Well-Known Member
Personally I grow organically, why? It is harder to fuck up and it's easier for me.

As for large scale agricultural use it is not particularly effective (from reading the DPI website) at generating the same yields however recently there has been a large push for farmers to enrich their fields with organic compost as it not only provides nutrients it dramatically lowers the amounts of sythentic fertilizers they need and increases yield and quality.

So from large scale farming in Australia I would sumise that the best results will likely be garnered from a mixture, howeve this is in the hands of people that have been growing the same crops for generations in rich farm plots. Not some scungy hole in a guerilla site and not by a person whose only been growing for a few years and finds the organics far more forgiving and easier to manage.
 

findme

Well-Known Member
so how does this translate into growing pot?

the cost of using organics when growing pot outweighs the pros of using it.

organic lovers, lay off of the " I don't wanna smoke chem buds" because you can't taste a difference.

organic npk = the same npk you find in miracle grow.

peace of mind nutes.. if only they had it for hydro. I'd definitely be using it then. if i do an outdoor grow, I will definitely use these organics.
 

Coolwhip

Member
Flooding the roots with NPK often enough to grow big plants is NOT the same as allowing a living soil to feed your plants for you. You can definitely taste a difference
in properly grown organic vs inorganic foods. And I taste a difference in the buds, not going to say chem bud can't taste good but organic tastes different. You can especially taste the fuller bouquet of flavors when vaporizing too.
 

randomseed

Active Member
I dont understand how people are saying organics cost more?
Ive gone from a 100$+ / month budget for nutrients to less then 30$/ month to do soil admendments for water only grows. I dont see how you can say it costs more at all, not even close.

That was using botanicare at that, figure if I was using AN that bill would have been closer to $300/month.
 

Nullis

Moderator
Lol. I typed that out because I think it's a decently worded introduction to the soil food web and the mutually beneficial relationship(s) that come out of it. This is what always seems to be left out of these "can your plants really tell" organic/synthetic debates; and organics is really all about the soil food web whether people realize or appreciate it or not. It isn't just about using 'organic', all natural or OMRI certified fertilizers/amendments. I would wager that the great majority of people really don't understand what organic means or what it actually involves. Even many of those who think that they are growing organically.

There is a huge picture beyond "a chemical is a chemical", or "an ion is an ion" or "NPK is NPK". Microflora and fauna produce, and in general do, much more for the plant/rhizosphere than just excrete wastes that supply NPK nutrients. Setting aside that they supply them exactly how, when and where the plant needs them, they also produce other compounds of extreme benefit to the plant. They protect the plant from diseases in a way that no synthetic fertilizers ever could (many soil dwelling bacteria even produce antibiotics), and many of our soil-dwelling friends also attack pest insects.

Then there are bacteria capable of pulling nitrogen out of thin air, nitrogen-fixating bacteria who can take nitrogen gas from the atmosphere and covert it into ammonia- which plants can actually use. Even more bacteria will go to work converting that ammonium into nitrate, which plants can use even more readily.

And the mycorrhizae! Don't even get me started on that wonderful fungus.

It doesn't concern me if people want to grow their cannabis hydroponically/with synthetic nutrients, indoors. People can grow however they desire and whatever fits their lifestyle best in that regard. I am somewhat concerned about the kinds of fertilizer that people use on their cannabis plants outside, in the ground. Repeat applications of synthetic fertilizer is seriously detrimental to beneficial soil life, which is the very thing that nourishes soil making it fertile and healthy.

I grow organically for various reasons: I like to play with dirt, I appreciate the complex array of life that is the soil food web, I enjoy decomposing vegetative matter and assisting in the recycling of nutrients and in general I like to witness Nature's cycle of life-death-rebirth. The finished product isn't bad either.
 
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