DOES FEDERAL LAW ACTUALLY PREEMPT RELAXED STATE MARIJUANA LAWS?

Tom Tucker 313

Active Member


The original artical can be found at:
https://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2013/04/09/does-federal-law-actually-preempt-relaxed-state-marijuana-laws/

The Cato Institute’s Ilya Shapiro recently spoke at the Law School concerning the status of relaxed state marijuana laws in light of the federal Controlled Substances Act’s continued prohibition of activities that these state laws now allow. This is a timely question with, it turns out, a less-than-certain answer. More precisely, it demands an answer that is more nuanced, and less categorical, than one might initially be inclined to give.

One’s initial answer is likely that these state laws are preempted—that is, rendered void and unenforceable—because of the federal statute. It is conventional constitutional doctrine, after all, that the U.S. Constitution’s Supremacy Clause makes valid federal law supreme over conflicting state law. Moreover, because the U.S. Supreme Court in Gonzales v. Raich (2005) deemed the federal marijuana prohibition to be a valid exercise of Congress’ commerce power, the specific question of whether state marijuana laws are vulnerable to preemption seems already to have been answered.

Mr. Shapiro makes an important observation, however. Drawing on the work of Vanderbilt law professor Robert Mikos, he notes that state decriminalization and even authorization of marijuana possession and use do not necessarily conflict with the federal criminal prohibition. If state officers were in fact responsible for enforcing federal law, or if the federal statute could and did require that state laws include comparable prohibitions, then a different situation would present itself. But state officers cannot be compelled to enforce federal law, and the federal statute does not require—and likely could not mandate—that state laws contain comparable marijuana prohibitions.

It’s not that the state laws are attempting to nullify the Controlled Substances Act. The federal statute still applies to the activities that it specifies, is still enforceable by federal agents, and can still lead to federal prosecutions, convictions, and sentences. It is simply that the states themselves are no longer criminalizing some of these activities. And while that may disappoint federal expectations, and even conflict philosophically with the federal outlook, that circumstance by itself does not give rise to preemption under the Supremacy Clause.

Of course, individual users, growers, and suppliers, among others, need to be aware that they are still subject to the federal prohibition. Also, those who meaningfully facilitate or encourage the federally prohibited activities of these individuals need to be aware that they could be aiding or abetting a federal crime, which is unlawful under 18 U.S.C. § 2. Indeed, a state that does more than simply permit marijuana-related activities—e.g., facilitating the provision of marijuana to users—could be subjecting its officers to potential federal criminal liability as well. And if a state were actually to engage in the cultivation and sale of marijuana, then this would violate the Controlled Substances Act outright.

Whether Congress will maintain a posture of benign neglect in the face of increasingly numerous medical marijuana laws—roughly eighteen states at present—remains to be seen. The recent legalization of recreationalmarijuana in Colorado and Washington, for example, may be enough to prompt federal legislative action, particularly if other states follow suit. However, to the extent that Congress cannot compel states to reenact their prohibitions by means of a punitive mandate under the Commerce Clause, Congress would need to explore other options, such as its power under the Spending Clause. Using an arrangement called conditional spending, Congress may condition a state’s receipt of federal funds on the fulfillment of certain obligations, as long as the obligations are explicit and relate to the purpose of the funds and as long as the funding dynamic is such that states have a genuine choice to accept or forgo the money, and with it the conditions.

The issues raised by Mr. Shapiro and Professor Mikos are certainly timely, important, and deserving of serious consideration. They are relatively underdeveloped in the case law and academic literature, making them an inherently fruitful object of scholarly examination. Given their stage of development, moreover, they are also open to critical inquiry from a variety of perspectives and interpretive approaches. Lastly, they have the potential to extend well beyond the field of marijuana laws, from other drug laws to firearms
 

greg nr

Well-Known Member
It's a legal handjob.

They eventually say that the feds still have supremacy, and can prosecute anyone they choose under existing federal law. They are just saying the states don't have to go along with it, which we already knew.

But in the end it's still against federal law. If you are in the realm where feds would prosewcute (100+ plants, moving it across state lines, selling, etc), you better keep looking over your shoulder; you are not protected by state law.
 

Tom Tucker 313

Active Member
It's a legal handjob.

They eventually say that the feds still have supremacy, and can prosecute anyone they choose under existing federal law. They are just saying the states don't have to go along with it, which we already knew.

But in the end it's still against federal law. If you are in the realm where feds would prosewcute (100+ plants, moving it across state lines, selling, etc), you better keep looking over your shoulder; you are not protected by state law.
http://www.minnesotalawreview.org/2017/04/pot-printz-and-preemption/
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
While any level of prohibition is absurd and provides evidence that people are not free, a good legal argument could be made thru articles 9 and 10 of the bill of rights. How exactly do the FEDS claim they have granted power over what people do or do not grow / ingest, if they never had it in the first place?
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Did you actually read that? They come to the same conclusion; the feds can still enforce the CSA, even if the states are within their rights to ignore it.

Hence, it is still possible to face federal charges even though you are state legal.
Your last line brings up a good point.

Wonder how many states the feds will arrest when the states accept tax money? I'm sure that is going to happen. (eye roll)
 

potroastV2

Well-Known Member
Did you actually read that? They come to the same conclusion; the feds can still enforce the CSA, even if the states are within their rights to ignore it.

Hence, it is still possible to face federal charges even though you are state legal.

Absolutely correct, the local DA (County official) will take you to State Court if they think they can get a conviction, and if not, they will send the case to their buddy the US Attorney, who will take your case to Federal Court, where the State law cannot even be mentioned. The corrupt pigs in California have been using that tactic against legal MMJ patients for 20 years.


:mrgreen:
 

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
Absolutely correct, the local DA (County official) will take you to State Court if they think they can get a conviction, and if not, they will send the case to their buddy the US Attorney, who will take your case to Federal Court, where the State law cannot even be mentioned. The corrupt pigs in California have been using that tactic against legal MMJ patients for 20 years.

:mrgreen:
Not entirely accurate.

The state doesn't press charges because they have no vested interest in doing so as it is legal.

HOWEVER

They ARE REQUIRED UNDER LAW to turn over any information on schedule one drugs to the federal government.

It's not that California WANTS to do it, they HAVE TO.

It (marijuana) is still a schedule 1 drug at the Federal level. Any contact with it MUST be reported to Federal authorities no matter what.

Even in Atlanta where we've finally just decriminalized possession under an ounce, they STILL have to turn over those citations to the federal government due to the schedule ranking.

Now, does that mean the Feds will automatically prosecute? No. But do they have that option? Yes.

That is why this thing is eventually going to come to a head...and in all likelihood it's going to be California that leads the way to the Supreme Court over this shit.

Don't hate on your local authorities too much. They're actually on your side in this. But their hands are still tied to some extent on what they MUST do with schedule one drugs.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Not entirely accurate.

The state doesn't press charges because they have no vested interest in doing so as it is legal.

HOWEVER

They ARE REQUIRED UNDER LAW to turn over any information on schedule one drugs to the federal government.

It's not that California WANTS to do it, they HAVE TO.

It (marijuana) is still a schedule 1 drug at the Federal level. Any contact with it MUST be reported to Federal authorities no matter what.

Even in Atlanta where we've finally just decriminalized possession under an ounce, they STILL have to turn over those citations to the federal government due to the schedule ranking.

Now, does that mean the Feds will automatically prosecute? No. But do they have that option? Yes.

That is why this thing is eventually going to come to a head...and in all likelihood it's going to be California that leads the way to the Supreme Court over this shit.

Don't hate on your local authorities too much. They're actually on your side in this. But their hands are still tied to some extent on what they MUST do with schedule one drugs.
Have you ever wondered if the Feds snitch on themselves?

The CompassionateInvestigationalNewDrug program, or Compassionate IND, is a United States Federal Government-run InvestigationalNewDrug program established in 1978 that allows a limited number of patients to use medical marijuana grown at the University of Mississippi.
 

Terps

Well-Known Member
fed > state then can come and arrest you and seize all of your assets. Not one thing the state can do to stop them.
 

thumper60

Well-Known Member
any thing over 100 plants don't matter what state or what paper work u got,the feds can bust u,at 100 plants that's the start of mandatory mins..throw in some assets they all over it.any thing under 100 stays in state unless u growing on fed land. me and many folk I no have been thur this!!
 

Tom Tucker 313

Active Member
Have you ever wondered if the Feds snitch on themselves?

The CompassionateInvestigationalNewDrug program, or Compassionate IND, is a United States Federal Government-run InvestigationalNewDrug program established in 1978 that allows a limited number of patients to use medical marijuana grown at the University of Mississippi.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pot-monopoly-20140529-story.html

https://pharmacy.olemiss.edu/marijuana/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/scientists-say-governments-pot-farm-moldy-samples-no-guidelines

https://www.thecannabist.co/2017/03/13/government-research-marijuana-quality/75461/
 

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
fed > state then can come and arrest you and seize all of your assets. Not one thing the state can do to stop them.
That is not entirely accurate.

Unless the crime involves interstate commerce, the Federal Government is powerless.

Example: you get caught growing 5 plants in your basement. Now, the State can press charges against you (unless you're in a state where it's legal with license and you have the appropriate license) but the Federal Government can't do a thing about it.

In fact, in that case, even if an FBI or DEA agent was the one to find it, they would call the local police. It's not enough to justify a distribution charge and they can't prove any intent to distribute across state lines.

But if you're caught driving a pound in Nevada, and your car is licensed in California and your drivers license is also from California, that is interstate commerce - crossing state lines.

That is where your ass belongs to the Feds, and they can and will screw you as hard as they possibly can including taking your property in California even if it had nothing to do with the actual crime you just committed.

They will claim it was all used in an ongoing criminal enterprise even if it wasn't. There's still a lot going on about seizures right now that within the next 5 or 6 years is eventually going to make it to SCOTUS. It has been terribly abused by both State and Federal authorities for years.
 

greg nr

Well-Known Member
That is not entirely accurate.

Unless the crime involves interstate commerce, the Federal Government is powerless.

Example: you get caught growing 5 plants in your basement. Now, the State can press charges against you (unless you're in a state where it's legal with license and you have the appropriate license) but the Federal Government can't do a thing about it.

In fact, in that case, even if an FBI or DEA agent was the one to find it, they would call the local police. It's not enough to justify a distribution charge and they can't prove any intent to distribute across state lines.

But if you're caught driving a pound in Nevada, and your car is licensed in California and your drivers license is also from California, that is interstate commerce - crossing state lines.

That is where your ass belongs to the Feds, and they can and will screw you as hard as they possibly can including taking your property in California even if it had nothing to do with the actual crime you just committed.

They will claim it was all used in an ongoing criminal enterprise even if it wasn't. There's still a lot going on about seizures right now that within the next 5 or 6 years is eventually going to make it to SCOTUS. It has been terribly abused by both State and Federal authorities for years.
I think you are mistaking policy with practice. It is federal policy to not prosecute small quantities of cannabis, but the law allows them to do just that. you can find articles from the reagan era where the feds made busts (and seized homes) over a single joint.

While the states were prosecuting small quantities, the feds didn't think it was worth their resources to get involved. But there is no legal reason they can't. The CSA is all the justification they need, and it doesn't need to be interstate trafficking or 100 plants to trigger it.

There are lots of cases where they chose to prosecute small quantities.
 

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
Again, anybody prosecuted by the Federal Government was caught trafficking illegally. Otherwise, they have no standing. That is simply the law. Period.

The Federal Government to this day has never prosecuted anybody for simple possession. Ever.
 

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
That is not entirely accurate.

Unless the crime involves interstate commerce, the Federal Government is powerless.

Example: you get caught growing 5 plants in your basement. Now, the State can press charges against you (unless you're in a state where it's legal with license and you have the appropriate license) but the Federal Government can't do a thing about it.
[...] they can't prove any intent to distribute across state lines.
[...] that is interstate commerce - crossing state lines.
Crossing state lines isn't required for interstate commerce. Once again, you think you know how the law works but you actually don't know what you're talking about.
 

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
Again, anybody prosecuted by the Federal Government was caught trafficking illegally. Otherwise, they have no standing. That is simply the law. Period.

The Federal Government to this day has never prosecuted anybody for simple possession. Ever.
What possess someone to just make something up like this? Seriously? I don't think it is trolling.

In any event, there is a civil penalty for simple possession under federal law, 21 USC 844. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/21/844a

People get busted for this all the time in national parks and in cities where people don't realize they are on federal property. Here is a docket for Barbara Jones' simple possession case, from the first page of search results on PACER. She received a ticket and failed to appear so a warrant was issued, then she paid her $150 fine and the case was closed. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/4496325/united-states-v-jones/


You should stop playing Lawyer On The Internet because you are terrible at it!
 
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