Dystopia's PPP 250w VScrOG

jigfresh

jigfresh

Well-Known Member
Hey Dystopia,

Real nice ideas you got. :bigjoint: Hulk nugs pointed me over here. I'm glad he did. I'm doing a vertical scrog too. Not quite the cage you have, but mines bigger (how's that for sounding like a man). :dunce: I must say, I really really like your work. Having set up my own grow a tiny bit like yours I know the planning and effort involved. Well done. :blsmoke:

Please excuse me if you already answered this (if so, just say and i'll find it)... do you have idea's on how you will improve the design for next round? Assuming you are going another round with this.

I write a lot like you, so I wouldn't expect you to read the whole thing, but you should check out my journal when you get the chance, at least the latest set of pics. And be warned, I've trimmed the shit out of my girls, tossed maybe a third of the plant that grew. Sick, I know, but I just love a smooth, even screen.

If you don't mind I'll hang out till you're done. It's nice to look at plants growing the way god intended.... all strapped up to a net with light blasting it from one side.

Vertical Revolution!!!

:peace:

EDIT: I see you talking about timing 12/12 perfect to get the stretch right. I cheat and use Humboldt County's Own - Bushmaster.... makes the girls stop in their stretching tracks. Right away, not more height. I am not sure how easy it would be to use with the way you do your water though. I run the BM for 24 hours only then totally drain the tank to start over.

Speaking of which, I have learned so much about water care from you. Thank you for that. And thank you for all the lovely descriptions, explanation, and graphics you've created.... very much help on many levels.
 
AKAHUSH

AKAHUSH

Member
does scrog give you more weight? just wondering im starting my new room soon and wondering if this is a technique i should try
 
miami30532

miami30532

Member
i hop u don't mind but u seem like u really know what your doing so thought id ask u this ? so i'm trying to start a perptual grow and i have 12 plants to grow and would like to brake down a tree or 2 every two to three weeks how would i go about doing this. thanks for your time in your response
 
Dystopia

Dystopia

Active Member
blueybong said:
How's the rez change going? Has it stabilized?
Click to expand...
Uh, I don't know. I was freaking out because my pH was all over the place, turns out my meter went TU, got another one in the mail. Plants seem to be doing well, got some mag def going on so I added some Cal-Mag.


AKAHUSH said:
does scrog give you more weight? just wondering im starting my new room soon and wondering if this is a technique i should try
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Not necessarily, it's just one of many methods you can use to max out yield. For instance a SOG will give you just as much if you can grow that many plants, and it's easier to do. I'm limited in the number of plants I can grow; the fewer plants you are growing, especially under a low-wattage light, the more training you have to do and a screen makes it easier, at least for me. If I had a choice I would do a SOG, though.

miami30532 said:
i hop u don't mind but u seem like u really know what your doing so thought id ask u this ? so i'm trying to start a perptual grow and i have 12 plants to grow and would like to brake down a tree or 2 every two to three weeks how would i go about doing this. thanks for your time in your response
Click to expand...
I really have no experience in a perpetual grow; try this thread for a detailed explaination:

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/6592-get-harvest-every-2-weeks.html


jigfresh said:
Hey Dystopia,

Real nice ideas you got. :bigjoint: Hulk nugs pointed me over here. I'm glad he did. I'm doing a vertical scrog too. Not quite the cage you have, but mines bigger (how's that for sounding like a man). :dunce: I must say, I really really like your work. Having set up my own grow a tiny bit like yours I know the planning and effort involved. Well done. :blsmoke:

Please excuse me if you already answered this (if so, just say and i'll find it)... do you have idea's on how you will improve the design for next round? Assuming you are going another round with this.
Click to expand...
Thanks! I took a quick look, very impressive! I will dig in to it some more over the weekend for sure!

Well, for starters I would have made my cage a little wider, it's pretty dense in there and I'm having a hard time keeping the buds coming up from the bottom off the light, there's no where to pull them back to.

Speaking of that, I guess you could technically say I'm doing a stadium grow since I have buds coming up from the bottom. I won't do this again - have buds coming up from the bottom - they just get in the way more than anything else and I had to raise the light to accomidate them. I'll just go purely vertical, kind of like what you're doing.


jigfresh said:
EDIT: I see you talking about timing 12/12 perfect to get the stretch right. I cheat and use Humboldt County's Own - Bushmaster.... makes the girls stop in their stretching tracks. Right away, not more height. I am not sure how easy it would be to use with the way you do your water though. I run the BM for 24 hours only then totally drain the tank to start over.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've heard of that stuff, I'll check out your thread and see how it works...
 
Hulk Nugs

Hulk Nugs

Well-Known Member
Very nice its like a pit of green........ i wouldnt mind falling into that pit(dont rescue me just grab me some matches and papers:bigjoint:)


Nugs are looking plump getting nice and full, how long are you going to let them flower. last few weeks they really put on some weight and if they get any bigger dam dam there going to be nice
 
C

cruzer101

Well-Known Member
Its nice to see people think outide the box.
I got a couple cabinets I'm growing in now and played around a bit with them.
Always looking fore a more efficent way to grow. I am leaning towards a scrog with walls and possibly a ceiling. It would have to be a 2 stage flower, starting the plants on the side first then the center. You have provided some usefull information.

Thanks man.
 
Flo Grow

Flo Grow

Well-Known Member
Dystopia, I'm really diggin your set up !!

This is ORIGINAL and MIND BLOWING !!

I can't wait to see your yield ! I saw someone post a horizontal SCROG with a 250W in a 18 gal Rubbermaid and get 20 oz ! I forget the Forum it was in at the moment.


Here's 2 Outlaw Genetics Gorilla Grape and a Magic Merlin with 26 main colas in a horizontal SCROG with PVC netting that measures 20" x 20" and 2" square holes. With a 250W Hortilux in a cool tube; 2 gal Smart Pots with Pro-Mix HP / Coco / Perlite; ALL inside a Homebox XS 2ft x 2ft x 4ft with temps at 76F / 81F with lights off / on respectively !

I had 40 colas but my 3rd Gorilla Grape was a male and had to be removed 8 days into Bloom. That was early enough to detangle, put him aside and collected pollen. Already hit all 3 girls 3 days ago with some pollen on a model paint brush too.

21 Days Bloom yesterday. Flipped too early since I never grew these before but got purple showing on the GG's ! Still expect no less than 4 oz. I will harvest the main tops first, then wait a week or two for the rest :
 

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speedyseedz

speedyseedz

Well-Known Member
I like that you've tried to be original and go outside the box on this one, but you've tried to mix two styles together and achieved neither, the way its set at the moment its quite ineffective at achieving what you are trying to, because the plants are not growing how they would in a vertical system, neither are they growing how they would if just using vertical and your losing out on yield comparatively against using a single system. Theres way too much leaf in there and the buds are just not getting the light they need, all i see its lots of small buds hidden by leaves. Your just sidelighting plants that are too close together, i'd say you'd be lucky to pull 4 oz from that.

If I were using that system what I would have done would have been to bend the plants so once they hit the mesh at the top you start curling them out to the side and then grow them on the outside of the mesh cage, then feed the branches through from the outside so all the tips of the branches are pointing towards the light.

This is not me flamming you or anything, just commenting on where improvements could be made.

Other than that good job.
 
Lt Shiny Sides

Lt Shiny Sides

Well-Known Member
Hey Dystopia sounds like the "stranger" knows more about growing weed than you do LOL! 4 ounces is a joke! So where's the update Dystopia? It's been 11 days...
 
Dystopia

Dystopia

Active Member
Sorry guys, I had a family emergency and have been out of town for the past week and a half. Everything's cool, but it's turned into a family reunion and I won't be back in town until the weekend.

I haven't seen the plants in that time; I've got a friend taking care of them and she's just doing water top-offs. She says they're looking good, though, some obvious nutrient deficiencies but getting close to harvest.

speedyseedz said:
I like that you've tried to be original and go outside the box on this one, but you've tried to mix two styles together and achieved neither, the way its set at the moment its quite ineffective at achieving what you are trying to, because the plants are not growing how they would in a vertical system, neither are they growing how they would if just using vertical and your losing out on yield comparatively against using a single system. Theres way too much leaf in there and the buds are just not getting the light they need, all i see its lots of small buds hidden by leaves. Your just sidelighting plants that are too close together, i'd say you'd be lucky to pull 4 oz from that.

If I were using that system what I would have done would have been to bend the plants so once they hit the mesh at the top you start curling them out to the side and then grow them on the outside of the mesh cage, then feed the branches through from the outside so all the tips of the branches are pointing towards the light.

This is not me flamming you or anything, just commenting on where improvements could be made.

Other than that good job.
Click to expand...

Welcome to RIU, speedyseedz! You’ve made some valid observations. First and foremost you have to consider that I’m growing with a 250-watt light. I’ve tried to grow “monster” buds with this light without much success – I end up with 12” long buds, but only the top 6” or so are quality because of the limited penetration of a 250-watt light; the bottom halves are airy at best.

It’s true that I’m growing a bunch of small buds and that was my intent. This is just my experience, but I’ve found that growing buds bigger than 6” with a 250-watt light is pointless. I believe that a plant has a certain “potential” yield threshold based on strain, vegetation time, light intensity, etc. You can reach this threshold by growing fewer “monster” buds – IF YOUR LIGHT WILL SUPPORT THAT - or by growing more “smaller” buds. If you look at a monster bud it is in reality a whole bunch of smaller buds combined into one big one. What I’m trying to do is break up the monster buds into smaller buds, so that all the buds are receiving equal light, which is what I believe you are more-or-less saying.

It is true that there is a LOT of fan leaves in there blocking the light; you’ve basically got up to twice as many fan leaves in the same area versus a horizontal grow (because the leaves on the side of the plant opposite the light grow towards the light). This is my first attempt at this style of growing and I’ve found out something interesting: while the fan leaves grow and orient themselves toward the light (phototropism), the stems and flowers grow up (gravitropism) so long as they are receiving adequate light. So yes, the fan leaves growing towards the light do block a lot of the light to the flowers. But I believe that the fan leaves are the energy gatherers for the flowers – the flowers don’t necessarily need to be receiving max light so long as the fan leaves supporting the flowers are.

While you won’t see the monster buds poking up out of the canopy on this grow – that wasn’t my intent - you are right in the sense that it is too dense in there and there are too many fan leaves competing for light and I’m not getting optimal coverage, no question about that. If I had it to do over again I would have topped for fewer branches. This is my first time growing PPP, and not fully knowing how the plants will react during the grow is a serious detriment to maxing out the yield. I won’t be trying this again with such a Sativa-dominant plant – I thought the large inter-nodal spacing would be an advantage but it’s not. I’ve got to stay away from the Sativa’s with low-wattage lights.

Anyways, ten 8-12” buds or twenty 4-6” buds, it’s all the same. But if my twenty 6” buds are denser because they (or more specifically, their fan leaves) are receiving more light then I come out ahead. Because of the density what you see in the pictures is probably about half of what’s actually there, the rest of the buds are covered by fan leaves when taking a picture from any particular angle. My typical yield from a horizontal 250-watt grow is in the 5-7 oz range (with a 50-50 hybrid); I’m shooting for 8-10 out of this one but may not achieve that…on this grow. But I’ve learned a lot and I’ll be doing lots of things different the next time around!

Thanks for your input! :peace:
 
speedyseedz

speedyseedz

Well-Known Member
Dystopia said:
Sorry guys, I had a family emergency and have been out of town for the past week and a half. Everything's cool, but it's turned into a family reunion and I won't be back in town until the weekend.

I haven't seen the plants in that time; I've got a friend taking care of them and she's just doing water top-offs. She says they're looking good, though, some obvious nutrient deficiencies but getting close to harvest.




Welcome to RIU, speedyseedz! You’ve made some valid observations. First and foremost you have to consider that I’m growing with a 250-watt light. I’ve tried to grow “monster” buds with this light without much success – I end up with 12” long buds, but only the top 6” or so are quality because of the limited penetration of a 250-watt light; the bottom halves are airy at best.

It’s true that I’m growing a bunch of small buds and that was my intent. This is just my experience, but I’ve found that growing buds bigger than 6” with a 250-watt light is pointless. I believe that a plant has a certain “potential” yield threshold based on strain, vegetation time, light intensity, etc. You can reach this threshold by growing fewer “monster” buds – IF YOUR LIGHT WILL SUPPORT THAT - or by growing more “smaller” buds. If you look at a monster bud it is in reality a whole bunch of smaller buds combined into one big one. What I’m trying to do is break up the monster buds into smaller buds, so that all the buds are receiving equal light, which is what I believe you are more-or-less saying.

It is true that there is a LOT of fan leaves in there blocking the light; you’ve basically got up to twice as many fan leaves in the same area versus a horizontal grow (because the leaves on the side of the plant opposite the light grow towards the light). This is my first attempt at this style of growing and I’ve found out something interesting: while the fan leaves grow and orient themselves toward the light (phototropism), the stems and flowers grow up (gravitropism) so long as they are receiving adequate light. So yes, the fan leaves growing towards the light do block a lot of the light to the flowers. But I believe that the fan leaves are the energy gatherers for the flowers – the flowers don’t necessarily need to be receiving max light so long as the fan leaves supporting the flowers are.

While you won’t see the monster buds poking up out of the canopy on this grow – that wasn’t my intent - you are right in the sense that it is too dense in there and there are too many fan leaves competing for light and I’m not getting optimal coverage, no question about that. If I had it to do over again I would have topped for fewer branches. This is my first time growing PPP, and not fully knowing how the plants will react during the grow is a serious detriment to maxing out the yield. I won’t be trying this again with such a Sativa-dominant plant – I thought the large inter-nodal spacing would be an advantage but it’s not. I’ve got to stay away from the Sativa’s with low-wattage lights.

Anyways, ten 8-12” buds or twenty 4-6” buds, it’s all the same. But if my twenty 6” buds are denser because they (or more specifically, their fan leaves) are receiving more light then I come out ahead. Because of the density what you see in the pictures is probably about half of what’s actually there, the rest of the buds are covered by fan leaves when taking a picture from any particular angle. My typical yield from a horizontal 250-watt grow is in the 5-7 oz range (with a 50-50 hybrid); I’m shooting for 8-10 out of this one but may not achieve that…on this grow. But I’ve learned a lot and I’ll be doing lots of things different the next time around!

Thanks for your input! :peace:
Click to expand...
The 4 ounces was a rough estimate based upon what I saw, now a whole bunch of other guys who may or may not have years of experience may well just see the good sides to your project, and there are lots of those I admit, my comments were nothing more than constructive critism.

As for your comment about big buds, they can be achieved.

Here is a thread off these very forums where a guy has done a single plant under a 250w and used a scrog very very effectively.



the thread can be found here
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/253823-big-buddha-cheese-small-area.html?highlight=nft+scrog

now i have 2 posts, so i now know twice as much about growing as i did when i made the last post. Maybe if I jsut keep banging out posts until i get tired I might know as much as some of the guys that were quick to jump on what i knew and my 1 post.



Good luck with your next effort though Dystopia, hopefully you can make some minor adjustments and improve your yield over this time.

Peace brother
 
Dystopia

Dystopia

Active Member
speedyseedz said:
The 4 ounces was a rough estimate based upon what I saw, now a whole bunch of other guys who may or may not have years of experience may well just see the good sides to your project, and there are lots of those I admit, my comments were nothing more than constructive critism.

As for your comment about big buds, they can be achieved.

Here is a thread off these very forums where a guy has done a single plant under a 250w and used a scrog very very effectively.

the thread can be found here
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/253823-big-buddha-cheese-small-area.html?highlight=nft+scrog


Good luck with your next effort though Dystopia, hopefully you can make some minor adjustments and improve your yield over this time.

Peace brother
Click to expand...
First, I want to make it clear that I took no offense from your post - I welcome any and all comments, so long as they're civil, which your's clearly was. And I could tell you were no newbie, regardless of post count - you did identify a problem with my current setup, which means you understand the concepts :peace:

As far as your link, that was a fine grow, for sure. It's a near-perfect example of the concepts I've been talking about - from topping/training to pruning. You can even visually see the "flower box" I've been talking about :bigjoint: And it is pretty representative of what I get when I try to grow big buds - 6-7 zips, 4 or so of which are quality, the rest airy but smokable. And I'm not even talking about the popcorn at the bottom.

Now I reckon there might be a bud or two in my rig that compares in size to the 6-8" buds he grew...it's just hard to see because they are so tightly packed together and hidden by fan leaves; they don't stand out like the buds in a sparser canopy do. IDK, I got my fingers crossed that they've grown a bit since I last saw them.

And the number of plants doesn't necessarily affect yield, in my opinion. I could get the same yield from one plant or sixteen plants using my setup; the only thing that would change would be how much (or if) I topped/trained and how long I vegged.

Anyway, I've already been down that road so I thought I'd try a new one. 4 ozs, 6 ozs, 10 ozs...whatever I end up with I already know it's going to be some of the best stuff end-to-end I've grown with this light and I learned a lot along the way. I already have changes in mind to address the density issues: increase the radius to allow more room; don't grow stadium-style, the buds coming up from below the light get in the way more than anything else; decrease the number of main branches; etc.

But keep them coming! I'm open to all ideas/thoughts on how to increase the yield or the quality of the buds. bongsmilie
 
speedyseedz

speedyseedz

Well-Known Member
Dystopia said:
First, I want to make it clear that I took no offense from your post - I welcome any and all comments, so long as they're civil, which your's clearly was. And I could tell you were no newbie, regardless of post count - you did identify a problem with my current setup, which means you understand the concepts :peace:

As far as your link, that was a fine grow, for sure. It's a near-perfect example of the concepts I've been talking about - from topping/training to pruning. You can even visually see the "flower box" I've been talking about :bigjoint: And it is pretty representative of what I get when I try to grow big buds - 6-7 zips, 4 or so of which are quality, the rest airy but smokable. And I'm not even talking about the popcorn at the bottom.

Now I reckon there might be a bud or two in my rig that compares in size to the 6-8" buds he grew...it's just hard to see because they are so tightly packed together and hidden by fan leaves; they don't stand out like the buds in a sparser canopy do. IDK, I got my fingers crossed that they've grown a bit since I last saw them.

And the number of plants doesn't necessarily affect yield, in my opinion. I could get the same yield from one plant or sixteen plants using my setup; the only thing that would change would be how much (or if) I topped/trained and how long I vegged.

Anyway, I've already been down that road so I thought I'd try a new one. 4 ozs, 6 ozs, 10 ozs...whatever I end up with I already know it's going to be some of the best stuff end-to-end I've grown with this light and I learned a lot along the way. I already have changes in mind to address the density issues: increase the radius to allow more room; don't grow stadium-style, the buds coming up from below the light get in the way more than anything else; decrease the number of main branches; etc.

But keep them coming! I'm open to all ideas/thoughts on how to increase the yield or the quality of the buds. bongsmilie
Click to expand...
When in veg and the plants reach the mesh, instead of topping bend the plant so it actually grows on the outside of the mesh, as it raises on the outside of the mesh feed in the tips and top them so you keep them at a similar length until you are ready to flower and you have filled a lot of gaps.

I applaud your inventiveness and look forward to seeing how you modify your setup and make improvements in the future.

Good job
 
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