Economical multi LED Chip Projects for Growing

DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
tombsy said:
Fellow Canadian here. Any suggestions on a 1x5 cob setup? I want 1 cob per sq ft. Cheap and easy is the key. I'll trade some efficiency due to low power costs.
Click to expand...
Look on page 16 of this thread for:
The Cheapest Quality COB 350 Watt Grow Light Build and cut it in half, just order the 5 COB deal and 50 watt drivers to make a 250 watt lamp. You won't find a better deal on COBs and they have a fantastic spectral output in the 3500K cri 90 model, check out the power distribution in the specs link. CobKits.com also has good prices on COBs and Ideal (recommended) holders and will ship them for $23 US insured to our home and native land, use the RIU discount code and you'll get 10% off, takes some of the sting outta it. The guy is a real expert and he has a thread on here, email him if you don't see it on the site or need answers.

Oops just noticed it was an area! The five COB deal should do it, sounds like a closet, the light will use 250 watts of power and about 2/3 s of that will be heat and it will have to be dissipated and in a small space, gotten rid of.

What are you thinking about for heatsinking?
 
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DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Heat Sinks in Canada
If anybody is selling heatsinks in Canada for a reasonable price, post your link here and let folks know how much things cost with shipping and tax too.

Making Your Own
For those who want to make their own heat sinks, it can be done by using different sizes of low cost locally available C channel aluminum extrusion, with the next size down C channel placed inside the larger one. Drill holes in the larger sizes and use self taping screws every couple of inches to draw the sectons together tight, plan things, so that the screws end up between the COBs. Make sure to use cheap heat sink paste between the C channel sections and that there is good contact between the surfaces. If you start with 4" x 2" structural channel, you can put 3" x 1" C channel inside that and 2" x 1" C channel inside that and so on. C channel extrusions range from $1 to $6/ft depending on the size and profile. Aluminum extrusions can be obtained from a metals super store or supplier and ordered in or bought from a local machine shop or any place that builds trailers and fixes fishing or agricultural equipment.

If you make a 2' or 4' long heat sink bar, attach appropriate sized fans with nylon wire ties through holes in the side of the channel and the fan mounting holes, or use screws if you can, or just use dabs of silicone rubber adhesive to mount them to the top of the channel. Mount the fans behind the COBs and have the air blowing down and impinging on the heat sink, if your COBs are spaced 10" apart, so are your fans, don't enclose the top of the bar, but let the air flow freely. You can mount the enclosed drivers on top of the bar too (use silicone adhesive), just take care not to impede air movement too much, hardware store chains can be used to hang the bar, just make sure the chains and hooks are up to the job of supporting the weight.

It might be possible to use double sided CPU tape to hold the sections of C channel together also and if this does the job, it would greatly simplify things. Aluminum extrusions can be easily cut using a power saw with a carbide tipped blade. Use safety glasses, as the chips fly and ya wouldn't want one in the eye!
 
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DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
An Alternate Water Cooled Tube Design
I ran across this great idea on another thread on this site, I left a message asking if I could use the pic and give him credit for the idea, though I don't think it originated with him. This is an alternate design for a cooling tube that is less weight (when filled) than my design and you can use screws/holders and good quality thermal paste to mount COBs on it. The fellow uses a flat plate with a piece of 1" square tubing as a cooling tube, he bonds the tube to the plate using heatsink paste over where the COBs go and JB weld epoxy in between, alternating patches of epoxy and paste down the length of the tube then clamps it firmly together until the epoxy sets, clever.

I liked this idea and thought I could develop it further by using 2" or 3" x 1" aluminum "C" channel and the same square 1" aluminum tubing he uses. Double sided CPU thermal tape (ebay) could be used to adhere the tube to the center of the channel. Flood light COBs or COBs using holders could then be applied to the channel with the screw holes on the outside of the cooling tube. Most good quality 1" square COBs would be mounted on the channel, directly beneath the cooling tubes and the holder screw ends would be to the sides of the cooling tube. In addition wiring could be run along the inside of the channel for a neater job and holes drilled close to the COBs in the "C" channel for the wires. Here's what I mean...

This picture shows where the holes end up in the channel, on either side of the cooling tube for flood light COBs. I'm using a piece of scrap and an old cooling tube from another design to illustrate the idea, this is not an actual build. This is what such a bar would look like if 1" square tubing and 2" x 1" architectural "C" channel were used to build it. The COBs would go on the C channel, I placed them on the cooling tube to show where the holes would end up. You wouldn't even have to tap any screw holes, since nuts could probably be applied to the screw ends on the inside of the channel.
20170912_180251.jpg

Here is the double sided adhesive CPU tape that has the same thermal properties as cheap heatsink paste. Alternately you could use paste and hold the tube against the channel mechanically, using spring steel wires across the cooling tube and into holes on the top sides of the channel. If you buy an appropriately sized barbed brass hose fitting with a pipe thread on one end, like that shown, it will thread right into the end of the aluminum tube. After you cut some thread in the tubing end, remove the fitting, clean everything with alcohol and slather it with JB weld epoxy (or silicone) and screw it back in, making sure the corners are well filled in. I know, I know, wearing socks with sandals is a fashion faux paus.
20170912_180417.jpg

You could mount self enclosed drivers to the top of the cooling tubes with silicone adhesive or even CPU tape and the channel can be used to hang the bar with chains or to mount to a frame with one or two others. See the sections earlier in the thread to learn about pumps and cooler ideas, etc.

Also, if you build a water cooled light, don't forget to thermally protect it with a 50 C (or 40 C) thermal cut off switch (ebay or even an appliance repair place, buy an NC type, Normally Closed) mount it to the channel close to a COB (use paste). This will shut the power down to the COBs if something should screw up and will save your lamp until you notice it and shut it down, figure out what's wrong and fix it. If the cooling system springs a leak or the pump dies, you'll be ok, the lamp will shut down at 50 C and start back up when it reaches say 45 C depending on the hysteresis specs of the switch. Wire it in series with the AC power supply to the drivers on the line side, like any other AC switch.

The flow rate a cheap $5 12 volt ebay pump produces could cool one of these bars quite easily, but it might be best to keep hoses fittings and everything else at 1/2". The cost of constructing these bars would be less than $4 or $5/ft CDN plus end fittings and epoxy. A 6 foot long 3 cooling bar lamp on an aluminum angle frame with cheap enclosed drivers on the tops of the tubes wouldn't cost that much, at least for the cooling tubes and cooler, if you used a car heater core and a fountain pump to run the system.

One of the key advantages for many will be the fact that you don't have to tap any screw holes with this design and still can use COB holders with good paste and screw them down. Nuts can be applied to the screw ends from the top and even the thermal switch can be mounted using screws, nuts and paste. It's simple, cheap and easy to build. If the end of the tube with the fitting can't be made flush with the rest of the tube, you can just hang it out the end of the channel a bit on both ends. Unless you buy pre drilled and tapped heatsinks, you'll have to screw tap everything but a water cooled fixture.
 
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ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
An Alternate Water Cooled Tube Design
I ran across this great idea on another thread on this site, I left a message asking if I could use the pic and give him credit for the idea, though I don't think it originated with him. This is an alternate design for a cooling tube that is less weight (when filled) than my design and you can use screws/holders and good quality thermal paste to mount COBs on it. The fellow uses a flat plate with a piece of 1" square tubing as a cooling tube, he bonds the tube to the plate using heatsink paste over where the COBs go and JB weld epoxy in between, alternating patches of epoxy and paste down the length of the tube then clamps it firmly together until the epoxy sets, clever.

I liked this idea and thought I could develop it further by using 2" or 3" x 1" aluminum "C" channel and the same square 1" aluminum tubing he uses. Double sided CPU thermal tape (ebay) could be used to adhere the tube to the center of the channel. Flood light COBs or COBs using holders could then be applied to the channel with the screw holes on the outside of the cooling tube. In addition wiring could be run along the inside of the channel for a neater job and holes drilled close to the COBs in the "C" channel for the wires. Here's what I mean...

This picture shows where the holes end up in the channel, on either side of the cooling tube for flood light COBs. I'm using a piece of scrap and an old cooling tube from another design to illustrate the idea, this is not an actual build. This is what such a bar would look like if 1" square tubing and 2" x 1" architectural "C" channel were used to build it. The COBs would go on the C channel, I placed them on the cooling tube to show where the holes would end up.
View attachment 4009282

Here is the double sided adhesive CPU tape that has the same thermal properties as cheap heatsink paste. Alternately you could use paste and hold the tube against the channel mechanically, using spring steel wires across the cooling tube and into holes one the top sides of the channel. If you buy an appropriately sized barbed brass hose fitting with a pipe thread on one end, like that shown, it will thread right into the end of the aluminum tube. After you cut some thread in the tubing end, remove the fitting, clean everything with alcohol and slather it with JB weld epoxy (or silicone) and screw it back in, making sure the corners are well filled in. I know, I know, wearing socks with sandals is a fashion faux paus.
View attachment 4009290

You could mount self enclosed drivers to the top of the cooling tubes with silicone adhesive and the channel can be used to hang the bar with chains or to mount to a frame with one or two others. See the sections earlier in the thread to learn about pumps and cooler ideas, etc. Also, if you build a water cooled light, don't forget to thermally protect it with a 50 C (or 40 c) thermal cut off switch (ebay or even an appliance repair place) mounted to the channel close to the COBs. This will shut the power down to the COBs if something should screw up and will save your lamp until you notice it and shut it down, figure out what wrong and fix it. If it springs a leak or the pump dies, you'll be ok, the lamp will shut down at 50 C and start back up when it reaches say 45 C depending on the hysteresis specs of the switch. Wire it in series with AC power supply to the drivers on the line side, like any other AC switch.

The flow rate a cheap $5 12 volt ebay pump produces could cool one of these bars quite easily, but it might be best to keep hoses and everything else at 1/2.
Click to expand...
Socks with sandals is haute couture in Colorado...

This is brilliant. I love how you're driving the cost down for water cooled fixtures and I think it's for a good cause; after all, I see precious few people using all those watts 'wasted' as heat!
 
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ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
Use it if you want, but it's so easy to DIY build I don't think there'll be much profit in it, just don't try to patent it, cause there's prior art.
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The fact that it's amenable to DIY just means that it's easier to manufacture. It's no barrier to mass production.

What's needed is a way to make the rest of the system easy to install and start generating real savings from. In other words, the 'killer app'.

I'm working on that.
 
nfhiggs

nfhiggs

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
A Few Thoughts on Water Cooling COBs
The build hours on the water cooled lamps were about the same as the time you'd spend on an air cooled system. I did a lot of experimentation, testing and learning, but once I figured out that it's best to use a 1/4" aluminum plate epoxied in with JB weld to plug the ends, things went real quick. I live in Canada and heat sinks are expensive here, heatsink USA is out of the question for a budget build. I was careful to hydrostatically test the bars to 50 psi for 5 minutes to make absolutely sure this idea would work. Others might like to try this, so I made sure about the cooling tubes and fittings, everything else from cobs to pipes/hoses and even cooler is users choice. Yeah it can be a pain to setup the cooling system etc, but you won't have to move a (literal) ton of air through yer grow and out the carbon filter. You can recover heat in the winter and if you live in a hot climate, it will cut AC costs in yer grow. Also, you can CO2 supplement your grow easily and cheaply, if yer not moving too much or any air through it.

The tubing was obtained locally costs $3.85/ft CDN and since there's 15 feet (3 x 5') of it on the big water cooled light it cost $57.85 or less than $60. CDN. How much do you think the equivalent active cooled air heat sinking would cost for a 5' long 24" wide 18 COB+ lamp that runs at a kilowatt (remember, I'm in Canada on the other side of nowhere)? I use an old air cleaner ($2 at a thrift store) and car heater core ($10 from a scrap yard) to cool things and it works well enough for my purposes, everything is hooked up with garden (best) or clear vinyl hose and that's cheap. An inexpensive fountain pump runs the setup and it sits in a 55 gallon plastic barrel that a buddy gave me for free. Brass and plastic hose fittings are cheap too, most of what you'd need (except for the cooler and tubing) is available at the local hardware store. You could build the tubes and cooling system for a hundred bucks or so, if you innovated a bit.

Not for everybody for sure, but if you've been thinking of trying it, this thread should give ya a good kick in the pants and provide a few ideas for your own system. That's the purpose of the thread, sharing ideas, experience and knowledge, and maybe some showing off too..:roll:

Looks like 20 years of mindfulness meditation practice hasn't killed the old ego yet, but I'm getting there!

To follow my water cooling experiments and testing, etc, go to page 10 of this thread or click here:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/economical-multi-led-chip-projects-for-growing.852256/page-10
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Wait... Are you telling me people actually LIVE up there in that big white frozen area at the top of the map? For REAL?
 
nfhiggs

nfhiggs

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
Cheap Chinese Drivers
As many of you know I live in Canada and up here things are a bit different when it comes to setting up and economical small grow and especially for buying or building grow lights. If money's no object or yer selling pounds a month on the side, then order up yer COBs, meanwell drivers and heatsinks, but be prepared to pay dearly. Not a problem if it's say a "business" investment and a few percent in increased efficiency pays dividends over time and will also allow more production from limited power resources. But let's say you just grow for yourself and others and don't sell it, or want to stay inside the new 4 plant limit law that is coming here. In addition let's say you have limited means, or have a medical issue and this is your medicine.

Until recently the price of quality COBs has been very expensive and even though there are some places selling quality COBs now for a good price, there's Canadian shipping, the difference in the dollar and customs, on top of the US purchase price. It's the same story for high voltage meanwell drivers, only shipping is worse for bulky items and heatsinks are even more expensive to ship. American builders often get free delivery and pay no sales tax, so their choices are different (and better) than those who live in other places. When you order on ebay from China, you seldom pay shipping and almost never pay duty, it's just the purchase price. I wish they sold high voltage, high powered drivers too, and if anybody knows if they do, post a link here.

I've been using a half dozen or so of each of 2 types of Chinese 3 amp 100 watt drivers for 3 years now (one type adjustable and the other non adjustable), been running them at 100% and I haven't had one fail yet (though I take care to try and cool them a bit). I didn't expect this, which is one of the reasons why I chose unenclosed drivers, so I could repair them if they screwed up, none have so far. In terms of efficiency, they are just current limited SMPS (Switch Mode Power Supplies) and almost all of those are around 90% efficient when operated at rated output and it doesn't matter much where they are made. I use them to drive pairs of 100 watt floodlight COBs and other better quality COBs, though an an adjustable version is best suited to this task. Of course using high voltage drivers and running COBs in series is best practice for a number of reasons, including: simplicity, efficiency and better power distribution. But if your in Canada the Chinese flood light drivers with free delivery are a viable alternative for the budget conscious builder.

Maybe a better name for this thread is, " A cheap old bastard builds grow lights"!
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Let me welcome you to the cheap old bastard club. I'm a founding member.
 
mahiluana

mahiluana

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
prior art.
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:peace: You are right - when I said "advertising"
I was thinking more in promotion of DIY watercooled led light as an option,
for the many people here on RIU, who want to diy with this new (or conventional) concepts.

It is much easier to make a decison towards watercooled led,
if they have good, organized support for this still unknown area.

As an "official" producer of watercooled light with reg. trademark and brand
I know it does not make any sense for me to patent or certificate such a product.
I can legally sell it as a kit for people unable to diy (drill, cut, seal,...) but a screwdriver and
soldering iron is always needed as a min.

As an artist - I see the real profit in reproduction of this watercooled concept in many different ways, by private end users. -
That`s an easy way to introduce watercooled light-heat-cogeneration
slowly to society and culture.
Not only cannabis growers can use this concept.

Specially in private, smart (pasiv)- houses - in correct dimensions -
a simple combination of watercooled light and PV panel can be a cheap, independent and ecological way, to cover all your basic needs. (electricity, hot water + heating, ganja + other healthy vegetables, e-mobility, +++ a clean and cool planet ))))) :wall: :bigjoint:

Experts say: average of ~ 25% of global electricity is consumed by lighting.
If now watercooled light could generate 60% of this giga-amount as heat power,
it could substitute oil and gas heaters as heat source.
The savings in CO² production and fosile energy could be enormeous. :hump:

But the professional lighting industry (phillips, osram,.......) doesn`t screen "watercooled".

So I estimate there are only a few dozens of experienced "watercoolers" in this world.

I see it like that:
We are a (relatively) small, new species of lighting engineers and avantgard artists, - but we can change the world
while making "fucky fucky" , and good concepts - fertilizeing like honey bees.

My starting idea would be:
to give more structure and order to the information that "watercoolers" are able to give.

:rolleyes: you could always " search " watercooled in above function of this page, but it is a nice idea to collect all this information a bit more concentrated.

We could structure subjects like : i. e.

1. - electric safety
2. - efficacy
3. - lamp build
4. - different materials
"
". -
55. - fixing led chip on heat sink.
56. - final design and grow room.

I will mark my future post with important information about watercooled led light with:
:fire::fire::fire:

So many advantage in "watercooled led light" - that this is only a recommendation.
:peace:
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
If you would like to start such a thread or sell kits, that's fine with me, draw freely from my experience, that's what I'm here for.
A few things though if you do start a new thread:
Keep the emoticons in yer message to a minimum, makes folks think you might be unstable with all that shit in yer posts.
People must have confidence in you and your integrity or they won't pay attention and your motives and intentions will show through.
Have a helpful attitude and respond to others, don't react, know the difference.
Have a sense of humor, we're here to have fun too.
If you go into business, look to guys like CobKits.com for inspiration and role models. Be an expert in what you do
 
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T

tombsy

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
Look on page 16 of this thread for:
The Cheapest Quality COB 350 Watt Grow Light Build and cut it in half, just order the 5 COB deal and 50 watt drivers to make a 250 watt lamp. You won't find a better deal on COBs and they have a fantastic spectral output in the 3500K cri 90 model, check out the power distribution in the specs link. CobKits.com also has good prices on COBs and Ideal (recommended) holders and will ship them for $23 US insured to our home and native land, use the RIU discount code and you'll get 10% off, takes some of the sting outta it. The guy is a real expert and he has a thread on here, email him if you don't see it on the site or need answers.

Oops just noticed it was an area! The five COB deal should do it, sounds like a closet, the light will use 250 watts of power and about 2/3 s of that will be heat and it will have to be dissipated and in a small space, gotten rid of.

What are you thinking about for heatsinking?
Click to expand...
What do you recommend for heatsink?
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
It kinda depends on you and what kinda person you are, if yer more hands on or not and how hot you plan on running the COBs. If you get 5 COBS (odd number), you'll want to run them at 50 watts with individual enclosed drivers. You can buy pre drilled and tapped heatsinks online and a fellow Canadian mentioned a source earlier in the new Canada Grows to the 4 plant limit thread. I'm trying to make this a one stop for Canadian growers and DIY light builders. I mentioned a DIY 4 foot long light bar design earlier in the thread using a DIY heatsink built up from cheap locally available aluminum extrusions, this would fit your space nicely. Unless you buy pre drilled and tapped, you'll have to do that too, unless you use a water cooled light bar like the new design. Buy a few 2mm drill bits and a 3mm tap from ebay when you order your drivers. Use a drill to tap and put the chuck of the drill on the tap shank so that it can slip, use oil and after a few turns reverse the drill for a couple of turns and then back in, repeat until the job is done. Check your area and you might be able to obtain a 4' long X 3" wide heatsink extrusion at a local metals supplier, that would be the best option for you. Tap yer own if ya wanna save.

I would strongly recommend you use ideal COB holders and good thermal past/pads. Cobkits is the best deal I've found on that stuff (and COBs) and he ships small stuff reasonable.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/canada-grows-to-the-4-plant-limit.948839/

If you really want something neat, effective, easy to build and cheap, check out the latest water cooling light bar design idea on this thread a few posts up. It can be cooled with a car heater core run by a fountain pump.

Growing in a small space means heat will build up (especially if the COBs are run at 50 watts). You'll have to move the air out of the room unless you plan on keeping the door open. 250 watts of energy will be dissipated in the room and 2/3 of that will be heat (most emitted from the backs of the COBs).
 
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