Farm Fox Liquid Fertilizers

Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
Of course you could care less about it... you don't even understand what organic is.

But still, this is the organics forum, and people browsing this forum who see this post and maybe don't read it thoroughly might come off thinking that the FF trio is organic. What I really don't get, though, is that people pay good money for a bag of all natural\organic and living potting soil such as Ocean Forest or Happy Frog, just to pour chemicals on it. They might do this for each and every grow. When they're finished they don't recycle the expensive soil, they just throw it away. Where does all that soil go?
 
Dubski

Dubski

Member
Nullis said:
Of course you could care less about it... you don't even understand what organic is.

But still, this is the organics forum, and people browsing this forum who see this post and maybe don't read it thoroughly might come off thinking that the FF trio is organic. What I really don't get, though, is that people pay good money for a bag of all natural\organic and living potting soil such as Ocean Forest or Happy Frog, just to pour chemicals on it. They might do this for each and every grow. When they're finished they don't recycle the expensive soil, they just throw it away. Where does all that soil go?
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So you would recommend none of the FF trio if im using FFOF?
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
I personally would 'recommend' Big Bloom only, if you're growing in organic soil like OF and want to stay organic. I almost feel like I have to preface everything with an in-depth explanation here because too many people simply don't understand organics: they think of it as some kind of buzz word, or that it has only to do with things being "all natural", or assume it doesn't matter to the plant. The essence of the matter is that soil in nature is far from inert, it's actually very much alive, and the life within it nourishes the plant in more ways than just breaking organic matter down into ions which are plant available (which is highly significant in itself). When you buy a 'soil' like Ocean Forest you aren't paying for dirt. What you're really paying for is all of the natural amendments and ingredients (and mixing) that go into it to make it soil-esque, otherwise it would be a regular, sterile, run of the mill soil-less potting mix (e.g. sphagnum peat, perlite).

Instead it contains actual sandy-loam along with forest humus, other living, and a plethora of all natural, ingredients that depend on the life in the other living amendments to break them down thoroughly into a form that is plant usable. Forest humus is very rich, decayed organic matter that is teaming with life- much like earthworm castings which are also in OF. Other sources of life in OF are the additional compost and bat guano. Chemicals in the Grow Big and Tiger Bloom at the very least make the microbes lazy so that they wont feed or provide so much for the plant anymore and you have to keep applying the chemicals. It can also piss a plant off (shock, set back) to go from having microbes do so much for them to there not being so many microbes.

The only reason I would even 'recommend' Big Bloom is because I know it is the only actual organic bottled liquid nutrient that Fox Farm produces. I've heard plenty of good things about it but when I thought about buying some myself I was put off by the price tag. It's a low NPK organic nutrient with a higher ratio of K, and it has microbes and some extra goodies, so it does certainly have some desirable features. But if all you want is a convenience as well as organics I would point you in the direction of the Fox Farm's Peace of Mind line of dry nutrients; if you demand liquid organics I'd point you in the direction of Earth Juice.
 
Cooter@666

Cooter@666

Well-Known Member
Nullis said:
I personally would 'recommend' Big Bloom only, if you're growing in organic soil like OF and want to stay organic. I almost feel like I have to preface everything with an in-depth explanation here because too many people simply don't understand organics: they think of it as some kind of buzz word, or that it has only to do with things being "all natural", or assume it doesn't matter to the plant. The essence of the matter is that soil in nature is far from inert, it's actually very much alive, and the life within it nourishes the plant in more ways than just breaking organic matter down into ions which are plant available (which is highly significant in itself). When you buy a 'soil' like Ocean Forest you aren't paying for dirt. What you're really paying for is all of the natural amendments and ingredients (and mixing) that go into it to make it soil-esque, otherwise it would be a regular, sterile, run of the mill soil-less potting mix (e.g. sphagnum peat, perlite).

Instead it contains actual sandy-loam along with forest humus, other living, and a plethora of all natural, ingredients that depend on the life in the other living amendments to break them down thoroughly into a form that is plant usable. Forest humus is very rich, decayed organic matter that is teaming with life- much like earthworm castings which are also in OF. Other sources of life in OF are the additional compost and bat guano. Chemicals in the Grow Big and Tiger Bloom at the very least make the microbes lazy so that they wont feed or provide so much for the plant anymore and you have to keep applying the chemicals. It can also piss a plant off (shock, set back) to go from having microbes do so much for them to there not being so many microbes.

The only reason I would even 'recommend' Big Bloom is because I know it is the only actual organic bottled liquid nutrient that Fox Farm produces. I've heard plenty of good things about it but when I thought about buying some myself I was put off by the price tag. It's a low NPK organic nutrient with a higher ratio of K, and it has microbes and some extra goodies, so it does certainly have some desirable features. But if all you want is a convenience as well as organics I would point you in the direction of the Fox Farm's Peace of Mind line of dry nutrients; if you demand liquid organics I'd point you in the direction of Earth Juice.
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As much as i hate you Nullis and i hope you die a miserable death at the expense of cancer or something even worse, I couldn't agree with you more, thanks for putting it straight.:razz:
 
symbiote420

symbiote420

Well-Known Member
True organics, I love it! I've gotten into numerous debates about this since I've joined RIU, people just don't want to hear commonsense anymore! If all you are concerned about is size do your thing, if you want the best tasting/quality and a healthier smoke, plus the size will come with the more knowledge you gain....trust me. I've been using their PoM for years now my fav is the 3-8-8 Bulb food.

And to point something else out too, FFOF is more of a compost than a soil, check the bag.
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
Cooter@666 said:
As much as i hate you Nullis and i hope you die a miserable death at the expense of cancer or something even worse, I couldn't agree with you more, thanks for putting it straight.:razz:
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I should die miserably because you misunderstood and made invalid assertions about a particular horticultural supplement produced by a particular garden\horti company, and then, further asserted that I must have some financial interest in said company; and expected me not to respond somewhat aggressively?

Alrighty, then.
 
Cooter@666

Cooter@666

Well-Known Member
Nullis said:
I should die miserably because you misunderstood and made invalid assertions about a particular horticultural supplement produced by a particular garden\horti company, and then, further asserted that I must have some financial interest in said company; and expected me not to respond somewhat aggressively?

Alrighty, then.
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My statement was sarcastic Nullis! Lighten up for fuck sake! I was agreeing with you. If you don’t possess a sense of humor just say so and I’ll never reply to you again… sound like a deal?
 
C

chasmtz

Active Member
why are you crying so much nullis? did it ever occur to you that people posting in this thread are trying to learn? I am using FF soil right now and just so you guys know, there are a ton of all organic fertalizers you can use. I use an ocean/seaweed/kelp based product that is fully organic but isnt made by fox farm. I use it very, very sparingly for veg, less than half strength.

I love the idea of living soil. I you want to be organic, you have to start thinking about feeding the soil, not the plant. If you take care of the soil, the soil will take care of your plant without needing any fertilizers at all.
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
Cooter@666 said:
My statement was sarcastic Nullis! Lighten up for fuck sake! I was agreeing with you. If you don’t possess a sense of humor just say so and I’ll never reply to you again… sound like a deal?
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I do, really. It's just that I am not much for those little mood-denoting smiley things... there's just so many of them and the ones I always see to the right never seem appropriate. Plus I am lazy.

Another suggestion would be for everyone else to realize that text on internet forums is too often flat, one-dimensional, prone to the drawing of multiple conclusions; and that you can never be sure just how the person typing it feels.
 
Cooter@666

Cooter@666

Well-Known Member
Nullis said:
IAnother suggestion would be for everyone else to realize that text on internet forums is too often flat, one-dimensional, prone to the drawing of multiple conclusions; and that you can never be sure just how the person typing it feels.
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You’re Absolutely Correct! It’s often difficult to pick up on the nuances in text….take the bible for instance…if you read the red text in the bible you can assume Jesus was a sarcastic motherfucker just depends on how perceive the flatten text, I think that’s where we went wrong in the molasses forum, but that’s water under the bridge to me, moving forward please understand that I’m not your enemy I’m just a sarcastic asshole….lol…Peace brah!
 
Cooter@666

Cooter@666

Well-Known Member
For shits and giggles I brewed up some FF Grow Big with some EM-1 and molasses just to see if GB really kills off microbial life…. I was shocked at what I found. Here are a few pictures that were taken over the 48 brewing cycle. I plan on running the same experiment with the entire FF trio at full strength.

The test was done with 2 gallons of water straight from the tap, 1 TBS of Grow Big, 2 TBS of molasses, and a cap full of EM-1

1st pic is the tea at 48 hours of brewing, 2nd pic was around 24~36 hour mark, and the 3rd pic was at the 12 hour mark
 

Attachments

Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
Interesting idea for an experiment, but one could potentially argue the results don't translate equally to soil. For example, the microbes (or some of them) in your EM-1 may fare just fine in solution, but once applied to actual soil they could still end up dehydrated and dead (from synthetic salts). And indeed I have heard it stated that beneficials (including mycorrhizae) aren't entirely incompatible with hydroponics for this reason because they would always be kept thoroughly wet.

Still it would be nice to see a comparison between that and a brew with absolutely no GB in it.
 
Cooter@666

Cooter@666

Well-Known Member
Nullis said:
Interesting idea for an experiment, but one could potentially argue the results don't translate equally to soil. For example, the microbes (or some of them) in your EM-1 may fare just fine in solution, but once applied to actual soil they could still end up dehydrated and dead (from synthetic salts). And indeed I have heard it stated that beneficials (including mycorrhizae) aren't entirely incompatible with hydroponics for this reason because they would always be kept thoroughly wet.

Still it would be nice to see a comparison between that and a brew with absolutely no GB in it.
Click to expand...

Very true! I should do a control grow to see side by side results, I’ll have to make that decision once we see the results from the GB,TB,BB brew….the combo of the FF trio might net a bunch of dead bacteria…we’ll see
 
Cooter@666

Cooter@666

Well-Known Member
Nullis,
Now you have me thinking. As a control I’d like to do a soil test using a base soil as the control. Here’s what I’m thinking. For the control I’ll water the base soil with a brew of EM-1 and molasses, the other base soil will be watered with the Trio tea with the additional EM-1 and molasses. Maybe do few watering letting the soil dry out in between. If the bacterium is still alive I should be able to dry out both soils, and then brew both of the soils separately to see if the microbial activity in the soil is truly alive….obviously the true test would be having the soil tested in lab.....what are your thoughts?
 
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