FIRST GROW QUESTIONS

Hello RIU! You guys are all awesome!
Asking for advice or information on the discoloration of my leaves. As you can see the yellow points on all the leaves. I have backed off my nutes a bit going from 1/2 recommended dose to 1/4
Also the yellow/brown leaves are what I thought were a sign of a calcium or magnesium deficiency so I have added a tsp to every water.

FIRST GROW
Week 4 flower
5gal smart pots
Soil(1 part ffof,1part ffhf)
I water when soil is dry about an inch below top of soil
(Water,feed,water,feed)
I water a gallon every 3 days
When fed I ph the gallon to 6.5-7.0
Fox farms nute trio(following feeding schedule)
400watt hps light with 400 cfm exhaust with cool tube
 

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Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
The plant pics tell me: They had a pH problem that solved it's self at one point (the spotted leaves). The problem looks like it was low pH for a bit. - Ca lockout.

Pic 2 - The lower yellowing. At week 4, this says that you fed a feed that is lower in N then it should be and that it's higher in P then it needs to be. P tox...... increase the nutes back to where you were and increase some N a little bit. This can slow the progression of the yellow out from the high P some....

Next time, don't flip to a high P/K bloom food till the start of the 3rd week of bloom after the flip....Even then - mix veg/bloom 50:50
for a week and go full on bloom at week 4.....

FF soils tend to be light on Ca/Mg. Many like to throw a good 1/2 cup+ of Dolomite lime into the bag of soil and mix well.....That will help maintain the pH at a consistent rate and not have late run Mg def.

THCmenFARMER = LMAO..... nice play....
 

macsnax

Well-Known Member
The plant pics tell me: They had a pH problem that solved it's self at one point (the spotted leaves). The problem looks like it was low pH for a bit. - Ca lockout.

Pic 2 - The lower yellowing. At week 4, this says that you fed a feed that is lower in N then it should be and that it's higher in P then it needs to be. P tox...... increase the nutes back to where you were and increase some N a little bit. This can slow the progression of the yellow out from the high P some....

Next time, don't flip to a high P/K bloom food till the start of the 3rd week of bloom after the flip....Even then - mix veg/bloom 50:50
for a week and go full on bloom at week 4.....

FF soils tend to be light on Ca/Mg. Many like to throw a good 1/2 cup+ of Dolomite lime into the bag of soil and mix well.....That will help maintain the pH at a consistent rate and not have late run Mg def.

THCmenFARMER = LMAO..... nice play....
I'm not trying to hijack this thread but I would like Dr.Who's input while he's around.... I would like to hear your thoughts on the relationship between calcium and phosphorus. More so, do higher calcium levels actually drop phosphorus levels? How much? Where is the happy balance in flowing?
 
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The plant pics tell me: They had a pH problem that solved it's self at one point (the spotted leaves). The problem looks like it was low pH for a bit. - Ca lockout.

Pic 2 - The lower yellowing. At week 4, this says that you fed a feed that is lower in N then it should be and that it's higher in P then it needs to be. P tox...... increase the nutes back to where you were and increase some N a little bit. This can slow the progression of the yellow out from the high P some....

Next time, don't flip to a high P/K bloom food till the start of the 3rd week of bloom after the flip....Even then - mix veg/bloom 50:50
for a week and go full on bloom at week 4.....

FF soils tend to be light on Ca/Mg. Many like to throw a good 1/2 cup+ of Dolomite lime into the bag of soil and mix well.....That will help maintain the pH at a consistent rate and not have late run Mg def.

THCmenFARMER = LMAO..... nice play....
You fucking rock dude. Like a marijuana guru. thank you for all the information I will put it to good use.✌
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
I'm not trying to hijack this thread but I would like Dr.Who's input while he's around.... I would like to hear your thoughts on the relationship between calcium and phosphorus. More so, do higher calcium levels actually drop phosphorus levels? How much? Where is the happy balance in flowing?
Wow, this could be a long and technical answer......Um, I'll try and keep it simple....maybe in 2 parts.

First maybe we should understand the relationship between soils and P. This will touch on Ca a very little bit. Then I'll go after the question more as you asked it.

Resupply of P in soils are dependent on a complex soil chemistry.
Many factor's effect the availability of the P to the plant. Amount of P applied by nutrient, soil pH, amount of Calcium (available) in the soil, temps and moisture content of the soil.
At high soil pH, most P is in the form of calcium compounds.
At low soil pH, most P is in the form of Iron and Aluminum compounds.
Maximum phosphorus availability occurs at a soil pH between 6.5 to 7.0. This is why one of the most important benefits of liming acid soils is improving phosphorus availability.

Now then. Yes they do interact between each other too. This can be rather complex.....I'll be as clear as I can be.

This is because they both support and counteract each other. They are up-taken and moved around the plant at the same time.
The "counteraction" is from precipitation of less soluble calcium phosphates at the vicinity of nutrient-absorbing roots.
Use of calcium can increase P uptake and too much P can block calcium uptake.....Fun eh?

Looking at the OP's pictures (or any "too much P situation). You can see that the high P is blocking Ca uptake, and you get those signs of low Calcium by the brown spotting on the yellowing leaves. This does not happen all the time here. The amount of P can be right at that blocking level and not quite be doing enough to have the Ca def expressed to that point of visible problem. It is still low....

This problem can be also linked to pH problems in the same way and a reverse of the P to low availability, comes into play here also.



This chart shows what I mean here pretty well for pH effecting availability. It is important to understand that when you water with your feed solution, that the soil pH drops..Somewhere around a whole point. As this soil dries out. You get a rise in the pH back to the soils "resting point".
This is natures way of making everything available at good rates for the plant to use what it needs.
The relationship between Ca and P, and the effective uptake by the plant is why I like to say to pH in bloom to a cpl of tenths higher. 6.7 over 6.5 to use that Ca/P relationship to have them both available at the peak time of plant use (I know a well known breeder that pH's his organic feed solutions to 6.7 - even though he doesn't really need to (the soil self pH's thing). He wants to make sure his solutions are delivering his P in a proper relationship with Ca to have maximum availability to max his results.) We all have our own way of doing things.

Again this will be effected by the amounts available....Too much P - to low a Ca and too much Ca - too low a P uptake.

On a side note. In synthetic use. Silica can cause a reaction with ca to form a precipitate. That lowers P availability too...
This is why you should be careful with any use of Si.
I should note here, that if in soil. The soil will supply the plants needed amount of Si and supplementing it is not required...
For the most part,
Si supplementing, even in hydro applications is not required. It can be a fair idea to try adding it as it too, regulates P in the plant. That's a good thing - Again, used in moderation.

This what you were looking for?
I tried to keep it short and understandable.
 

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macsnax

Well-Known Member
That's exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. I'm sure you seen my post and thought, shit I've gotta write a book to explain this. Thanks for taking the time to explain to one of many who don't have an understating like you do.
 

macsnax

Well-Known Member
Wow, this could be a long and technical answer......Um, I'll try and keep it simple....maybe in 2 parts.

First maybe we should understand the relationship between soils and P. This will touch on Ca a very little bit. Then I'll go after the question more as you asked it.

Resupply of P in soils are dependent on a complex soil chemistry.
Many factor's effect the availability of the P to the plant. Amount of P applied by nutrient, soil pH, amount of Calcium (available) in the soil, temps and moisture content of the soil.
At high soil pH, most P is in the form of calcium compounds.
At low soil pH, most P is in the form of Iron and Aluminum compounds.
Maximum phosphorus availability occurs at a soil pH between 6.5 to 7.0. This is why one of the most important benefits of liming acid soils is improving phosphorus availability.

Now then. Yes they do interact between each other too. This can be rather complex.....I'll be as clear as I can be.

This is because they both support and counteract each other. They are up-taken and moved around the plant at the same time.
The "counteraction" is from precipitation of less soluble calcium phosphates at the vicinity of nutrient-absorbing roots.
Use of calcium can increase P uptake and too much P can block calcium uptake.....Fun eh?

Looking at the OP's pictures (or any "too much P situation). You can see that the high P is blocking Ca uptake, and you get those signs of low Calcium by the brown spotting on the yellowing leaves. This does not happen all the time here. The amount of P can be right at that blocking level and not quite be doing enough to have the Ca def expressed to that point of visible problem. It is still low....

This problem can be also linked to pH problems in the same way and a reverse of the P to low availability, comes into play here also.



This chart shows what I mean here pretty well for pH effecting availability. It is important to understand that when you water with your feed solution, that the soil pH drops..Somewhere around a whole point. As this soil dries out. You get a rise in the pH back to the soils "resting point".
This is natures way of making everything available at good rates for the plant to use what it needs.
The relationship between Ca and P, and the effective uptake by the plant is why I like to say to pH in bloom to a cpl of tenths higher. 6.7 over 6.5 to use that Ca/P relationship to have them both available at the peak time of plant use (I know a well known breeder that pH's his organic feed solutions to 6.7 - even though he doesn't really need to (the soil self pH's thing). He wants to make sure his solutions are delivering his P in a proper relationship with Ca to have maximum availability to max his results.) We all have our own way of doing things.

Again this will be effected by the amounts available....Too much P - to low a Ca and too much Ca - too low a P uptake.

On a side note. In synthetic use. Silica can cause a reaction with ca to form a precipitate. That lowers P availability too...
This is why you should be careful with any use of Si.
I should note here, that if in soil. The soil will supply the plants needed amount of Si and supplementing it is not required...
For the most part,
Si supplementing, even in hydro applications is not required. It can be a fair idea to try adding it as it too, regulates P in the plant. That's a good thing - Again, used in moderation.

This what you were looking for?
I tried to keep it short and understandable.
That's exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. I'm sure you seen my post and thought, shit I've gotta write a book to explain this. Thanks for taking the time to explain to one of many who don't have an understating like you do.
 

Doomhammer69

Well-Known Member
Your plants are looking good, I have always freaked out a little with any leaf problems, trying to get it perfect is the fun for me. Keep up the good work and keep asking questions. Those buds are going to smoke real nice, Grats.
 
Thanks doom thought I'd give an update and I'm proud cause these bitches are crushing. Also curious on this leaf does it look like nutrient burn? I have upped my doses a little but not even full strength yet(3/4)

We got laughing Buddha on the left
And we have lemon shining silver haze on the right :weed:
 

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