Flowering due to age?

WeedFreak78

Well-Known Member
I have a photoperiod dutch passion blueberry mom, started from a clone from my last mother. I've lost count of how old it is, I want to say this mom is 7 months old or so. I've been cloning these genes for 2+ years now without issue, no hermie, which everyone said BB will do. It's always been under 18/6, combo of T5s and a 600 mh. About 2 weeks ago I noticed it started building buds, so I up the time to 20/4. She's still budding, I don't get it. I've had mothers this long without issue before. I never believed in genetic drift/degradation/etc., but I'm starting to wonder if that's what I'm seeing. I'm putting it into actual flower in a week or so, it needs a good trim first. Should be interesting.

So, what would cause a photo plant to flower at 18+ hours? Is she just old and wanting to die?
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
I have a photoperiod dutch passion blueberry mom, started from a clone from my last mother. I've lost count of how old it is, I want to say this mom is 7 months old or so. I've been cloning these genes for 2+ years now without issue, no hermie, which everyone said BB will do. It's always been under 18/6, combo of T5s and a 600 mh. About 2 weeks ago I noticed it started building buds, so I up the time to 20/4. She's still budding, I don't get it. I've had mothers this long without issue before. I never believed in genetic drift/degradation/etc., but I'm starting to wonder if that's what I'm seeing. I'm putting it into actual flower in a week or so, it needs a good trim first. Should be interesting.

So, what would cause a photo plant to flower at 18+ hours? Is she just old and wanting to die?
Hunh...Sounds odd. Never happened to me..But, I never really kept "mom's". I simply take clones from the trim at the flip....Never saw it happen to friends who keep mother's for over a year at a stretch. They were taken from the mom before it - same strain, for many years!
 

vostok

Well-Known Member
I've never seen this but heard of it often

look close there maybe mold in the roots or stem?

something tipping her to the edge?

see the forthcoming buds as a survival move

for this reason most cloners replace their moms every year or 18 months at most

for this reason

good luck
 

jarvild

Well-Known Member
I've never seen this but heard of it often

look close there maybe mold in the roots or stem?

something tipping her to the edge?

see the forthcoming buds as a survival move

for this reason most cloners replace their moms every year or 18 months at most

for this reason

good luck
Thanks, but i'm leaning more to genetic drift. I keep mothers for back-up, but most of my production runs are clones of clones from when I clean up the undergrowth before putting them in flower.
Seen it a few other times with unstable genetics in my lifetime.
 

WeedFreak78

Well-Known Member
Looks like it might be starting to throw new veg growth, lol, still going into flower in a few days. Hoping it throws all kinds of buds from the weird new growth, similar to reveged plants.

It's my last mom, had 6 over the last 2 yrs + without issue, one was over a year old. I've been scroggin and flowing them out the last couple runs. Going to start growing single plants from clone from here on out and cycle 4-6 through. SOG was fun, but a few big plants are way easier, at least for me, and no loss in yield so far.
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Thanks, but i'm leaning more to genetic drift. I keep mothers for back-up, but most of my production runs are clones of clones from when I clean up the undergrowth before putting them in flower.
Seen it a few other times with unstable genetics in my lifetime.
Unstable genetics, genetic drift...?
 

jarvild

Well-Known Member
Unstable genetics, genetic drift...?
Yes, I've experienced it several times in my endeavors. Plants will grow fine for 2 or 3 cycles then they flip on the pre-flower mode and never stop. I've always thought that some how may be too shortening flower times they tried to introduce some ruderalis genes. Anyways, it doesn't happen a lot. I've only seen in 5 times in 45 yrs.
 

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
I have a photoperiod dutch passion blueberry mom, started from a clone from my last mother. I've lost count of how old it is, I want to say this mom is 7 months old or so. I've been cloning these genes for 2+ years now without issue, no hermie, which everyone said BB will do. It's always been under 18/6, combo of T5s and a 600 mh. About 2 weeks ago I noticed it started building buds, so I up the time to 20/4. She's still budding, I don't get it. I've had mothers this long without issue before. I never believed in genetic drift/degradation/etc., but I'm starting to wonder if that's what I'm seeing. I'm putting it into actual flower in a week or so, it needs a good trim first. Should be interesting.

So, what would cause a photo plant to flower at 18+ hours? Is she just old and wanting to die?
This is a good read.

It talks about how different things can cause flower in equatorial strains where its near 12/12 year round. Age is one of them.

It is believed that ruderalis originated from escaped domesticated seed. It adapted to grow there where the days are 20-24 hours long in summer. The tap root determines flower. when it hits the permafrost it starts to flower. Its the reason bigger pots give you bigger autos. It extends the veg time.

Its reasonable to think that auto flowering is a recessive trait. One that can be initiated by several different things.
 

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
I've never seen this but heard of it often

look close there maybe mold in the roots or stem?

something tipping her to the edge?

see the forthcoming buds as a survival move

for this reason most cloners replace their moms every year or 18 months at most

for this reason

good luck
That may be true. Any number of reasons could cause it. Sickness, environment, or root bound.

I have also heard of people keeping mothers for years and know of a couple myself. Airpots help. taking them from their pots and root pruning does also.
 

WeedFreak78

Well-Known Member
That may be true. Any number of reasons could cause it. Sickness, environment, or root bound.

I have also heard of people keeping mothers for years and know of a couple myself. Airpots help. taking them from their pots and root pruning does also.
I think this is the issue. I'm in a 5 gal dwc and it's only holding maybe 1 gallon of solution the root ball is so large,, km topping it up every other day. I usually root prune every couple months, but I've slacked big time on this one. I'm going to transfer it to a 18 gal tote for flower, I expect the roots to double in the first couple weeks.

I also forgot it got stuck into a cold temporary tent with just a t5 for 2 weeks while I revamped my room, it was about a week after going back under the big lights I noticed the flowering. Could have been induced by the lower light intensity, even though it was at 18/6?
 

a senile fungus

Well-Known Member
I think this is the issue. I'm in a 5 gal dwc and it's only holding maybe 1 gallon of solution the root ball is so large,, km topping it up every other day. I usually root prune every couple months, but I've slacked big time on this one. I'm going to transfer it to a 18 gal tote for flower, I expect the roots to double in the first couple weeks.

I also forgot it got stuck into a cold temporary tent with just a t5 for 2 weeks while I revamped my room, it was about a week after going back under the big lights I noticed the flowering. Could have been induced by the lower light intensity, even though it was at 18/6?

I am ashamed to admit it, but I've stressed plants out enough to make them flower in veg. I had a tray of exodus cheese clones that i left in the peat plugs forEVER, and eventually, under 24hrs of light, low temps, extreme rootbound conditions, and very little water, they flowered themselves.

Cool experiment, blatant abuse.
 

WeedFreak78

Well-Known Member
I am ashamed to admit it, but I've stressed plants out enough to make them flower in veg. I had a tray of exodus cheese clones that i left in the peat plugs forEVER, and eventually, under 24hrs of light, low temps, extreme rootbound conditions, and very little water, they flowered themselves.

Cool experiment, blatant abuse.
Abuse is what I do, at least in veg, I TRY to be a little more gentle in flower. I stopped babying these plants about a year into growing. I figure if they can't survive, I don't want them. I let my roots go dry more often than I should, if they get to tall I just bend and break shit down around the buckets. I'll rip off branches that stick out further than I want. I let them grow into the lights, is like auto topping when the tops burn off. Shit when I change out my res I'll put my net pot and root ball right on the concrete floor add I wash my bucket..I don't care.
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Thanks, but i'm leaning more to genetic drift. I keep mothers for back-up, but most of my production runs are clones of clones from when I clean up the undergrowth before putting them in flower.
Seen it a few other times with unstable genetics in my lifetime.
Unstable genetics, genetic drift...?

I don't like that term...."genetic drift".....Technically, the only way that happens is by the introduction of new genetic material from outside the strains lines. In science, that is the term for exactly that. Change by outside the line genetic introduction.

A result of "damaged" genetics maybe.....Even the ability of the plant, to self bloom in a stress reaction, is part of the cannabis plants normal genetic make-up....

My 2 cents
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Maybe a change in amino acid production (most likely) or a different amino in excess or a def.?....I mean after all, it's the amino acids that have direct involvement on genetic expression.....Or maybe a weak area in the strand gets more exposure to them?

I've been looking into "The role of Amino acids in the genetic expression of recessed traits." Most of what I find is animal in study value. There have been a few botanical biology related papers found in searching Google scholar.....You might try there..

The rest of the buck?
 

jarvild

Well-Known Member
I don't like that term...."genetic drift".....Technically, the only way that happens is by the introduction of new genetic material from outside the strains lines. In science, that is the term for exactly that. Change by outside the line genetic introduction.

A result of "damaged" genetics maybe.....Even the ability of the plant, to self bloom in a stress reaction, is part of the cannabis plants normal genetic make-up....

My 2 cents
Yes, I used the term in the wrong context. I should have used recessive traits rearing their heads.
I'm sure some of the early growers, like me have seen a lot though the years. In the 70's we where stuck using bag seed for our grows. Wasn't till the early 80's before the first seed bank came on line. ( Thanks, Neville) And even then it was a crap shoot with what you really got.
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Yes, I used the term in the wrong context. I should have used recessive traits rearing their heads.
I'm sure some of the early growers, like me have seen a lot though the years. In the 70's we where stuck using bag seed for our grows. Wasn't till the early 80's before the first seed bank came on line. ( Thanks, Neville) And even then it was a crap shoot with what you really got.
Dutch passion is awesome these days, 100% love them :-)
 

jarvild

Well-Known Member
I ran a few of their strains a few years back if I remember correctly it was The Ultimate and I believe think different.
With the way it is now I rarely purchase seeds anymore. Only if something catches my eye, I've got 12 GG#4 clones heading to my house for free gratis tomorrow night and my garden is already full.
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Yes, I used the term in the wrong context. I should have used recessive traits rearing their heads.
I'm sure some of the early growers, like me have seen a lot though the years. In the 70's we where stuck using bag seed for our grows. Wasn't till the early 80's before the first seed bank came on line. ( Thanks, Neville) And even then it was a crap shoot with what you really got.
Oh yeah! Those southern Mexican and Columbian strains we planted....Then came the, Skunk and Orange hair, the main N.Cali triangle staples of the early "Sensi" years. Hawaiian's came over in "The case of can's" and we had a fit of joy over a seed in a #10 can of "Maui Flake Coconut".

Heady years.....Panama Red, Gold Bud, Acapulco Gold, Punt Roja. Buying lids for $10......OH I wish there was Panama Red still.
 

jarvild

Well-Known Member
Oh yeah! Those southern Mexican and Columbian strains we planted....Then came the, Skunk and Orange hair, the main N.Cali triangle staples of the early "Sensi" years. Hawaiian's came over in "The case of can's" and we had a fit of joy over a seed in a #10 can of "Maui Flake Coconut".

Heady years.....Panama Red, Gold Bud, Acapulco Gold, Punt Roja. Buying lids for $10......OH I wish there was Panama Red still.
Yes, the only problem with the equatorial strains was it was hard to get them to finish before the snow flew here in the midwest.
 
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