Flowering problems . whitish brown spots on leaves PLEASE HELP!

Camelbak44

New Member
Hi roll it up community. Im growing two diesel automatic autoflowers in 5 gallon smart pots filled with fox farms ocean forest. Until yesterday I had been watering with water and molasses and the occasional earthworm castings tea. Im not sure whats wrong with plants but they began getting spots and looking yellow at top.(please help indentify problem) So, I bought some organic cal mag, natures nectar potassium 0-0-5 and earth juice bloom 0-3-1. After mixing up the concoction i checked ph ; It was 4. I watered in with that and checked run off, it was 5.5 . Im assuming this is okay because its organic but i checked a soil sample taken from 4 " below the surface and the soil ph was sitting at a cool 6.5! Please let me know if this is okay and if the low runoff ph matters? (assuming it doesnt because of the extremely low ph i watered with and it being an organic grow) ALSO, can anyone identify whats going on with my plants?? brownish white spots on leaves, new growth yellowing, old leaves get spots, crinkle, leaves rip and then they die! more and more leaves are getting brown spots and look bad :/ pics taken under LED ilustrate the spots the best. I would estimate 15-20 leaves have this problem :/ THANK YOU ALL!View attachment 3877483 16111646_364683687231934_1183993170_n.jpg 16111758_364683700565266_1698954776_n.jpg 16117334_364683580565278_743108709_n.jpg 16117544_364683753898594_646390497_n.jpg 16117627_364683677231935_397182160_n.jpg 16117702_364683663898603_736366990_n.jpg 16117718_364683807231922_148752629_n.jpg View attachment 3877493 View attachment 3877483 16111646_364683687231934_1183993170_n.jpg 16111758_364683700565266_1698954776_n.jpg 16117334_364683580565278_743108709_n.jpg 16117544_364683753898594_646390497_n.jpg 16117627_364683677231935_397182160_n.jpg 16117702_364683663898603_736366990_n.jpg 16117718_364683807231922_148752629_n.jpg PICTURES------------------------>http://imgur.com/a/O6ACV
 

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DonBrennon

Well-Known Member
Do you use molasses every watering? If so, that's what's causing your problems. Molasses has a 'rough' npk of 1-0-5 and it's likely too much potassium is locking out the uptake of other nutrients.
I'm not really experienced enough to give you a good remedy, but hopefully one of the more knowledgeable organic heads will chime in @greasemonkeymann @Rasta Roy
 

Camelbak44

New Member
thanks, I just gave her more potassium yesterday because an experienced grower told me molasses didnt have enough potassium in it. So many opinions, I just need a plant scientist to answer my questions lol!
 

Camelbak44

New Member
How much are you watering? Those leaves look very puffy - overhydrated. Just curious.
I just watered last night and they werent quite ready ( would have been ready for water today or tomorrow though) but i wanted to get them some calmag/nutes right away so i watered early. but typically, i water once or twice a week. I wait for a very light pot and the top inch to be dry as a bone
 

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
It's definitely lockout...And the way you water.

The way you're watering also ruins the reason why you would be using molasses.

You want the pot to get lighter absolutely...But if that top inch is bone dry, you lost all that microherd life, which maybe could of helped uptake all that extra potassium, but instead they died...And all that potassium has locked up your Magnesium, and when your mag ratio is too high it can make your soil compact. Which fucks with your root growths, which might explain your yellow looking new growth.
I would just plain water for a bit...
 

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Whoops forgot to type the rest. Wife's work party was last night, I'm a little hungover lol.

Don't let your medium completely dry out. A layer of mulch is the best way to make sure your medium can evenly dry out without the top getting bone dry while the rest of the pot stays heavy (this also helps encourage fungal microbe development and adds to the carbon ratio of your soil over time).
 

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
@Camelbak44

most "experienced" growers don't grow organic, so they know so little about organics. they only know the world of dissolved nutrients in solution so their advice is not particularly helpful. I can tell that your understanding of an "organic" grow is flawed as well (please don't take offense as it is not personal, merely educational)

Way too much molasses (too much potassium results in lower uptake of Ca and Mg which compounds and then disrupts many other processes). and remember, the teas don't "feed" the plants, they breed and put populations of microbes in the soil so they can break down matter into nutrients the plants can uptake. FFOF isn't particularly a soil that is dump out of the bag and grow until it's finished IMO.

also organic or not, Ph of the water matters A LOT when dealing with liming agents (FFOF has dolomite lime or some sort of lime). When you water in at a super low ph (4.x 5.x) you're going to be dissolving that lime at an incredible rate and when that lime is gone your Ph is going to drop, and your source of calcium in the container is going to disappear.

Basically you are the classic example of "too much attention and care" to the plant. you're trying to do too much for it. the whole idea of organics is to let nature happen. That being said, I do think that eventually the FFOF will run out of juice, and some sort of regimen of a nutrient tea is going to be needed to finish the plant which is fine. but for the most part you should have just given an AACT (casting + molasses bubbled 24hr) once, and then plain water (ro water or rain water) for the first 3-4 weeks after transplant and then started on a regimen of nutrients after that (and yes the ph of those nutrients matters for the reason i've stated above, if you dissolve that lime entirely you will lose the ph buffer).

also im not sure how you're checking the ph of your soil, but basically unless you have a good tool like a bluelab ph probe or something like that, the cheaper tools are in fact quite useless.

also another thing to consider... when you let a pot get really light and dry, not only do you slow the processes of the microbes in the soil, you slow CEC which is responsible for nutrient availability and uptake.... and also something even more important is that things will start to precipitate out of solution (which means they will start to form bonds with each other and form soluble and sometimes insoluble compounds) in the soil. this not only creates a build up of things in your soil, but it will also make it hard for your plant to use these things because the microbes are the only thing that can break them back down (which requires moisture)


sorry i'm sure this is an overload of information... but it's all very accurate and very important to understand all of these concepts. So to fix your problem.... i would be trying to get the soil to an even moisture and keep it there all the time, and peat moss can be very hard to hydrate once it has gone dry because it gets hydrophobic. once you get the soil moist, you should probably give it some cal mag as you've been locking it out with the excess K. you should start to see it perk up a bit.... but you've done a lot of damage already....
 

Camelbak44

New Member
@Camelbak44

most "experienced" growers don't grow organic, so they know so little about organics. they only know the world of dissolved nutrients in solution so their advice is not particularly helpful. I can tell that your understanding of an "organic" grow is flawed as well (please don't take offense as it is not personal, merely educational)

Way too much molasses (too much potassium results in lower uptake of Ca and Mg which compounds and then disrupts many other processes). and remember, the teas don't "feed" the plants, they breed and put populations of microbes in the soil so they can break down matter into nutrients the plants can uptake. FFOF isn't particularly a soil that is dump out of the bag and grow until it's finished IMO.

also organic or not, Ph of the water matters A LOT when dealing with liming agents (FFOF has dolomite lime or some sort of lime). When you water in at a super low ph (4.x 5.x) you're going to be dissolving that lime at an incredible rate and when that lime is gone your Ph is going to drop, and your source of calcium in the container is going to disappear.

Basically you are the classic example of "too much attention and care" to the plant. you're trying to do too much for it. the whole idea of organics is to let nature happen. That being said, I do think that eventually the FFOF will run out of juice, and some sort of regimen of a nutrient tea is going to be needed to finish the plant which is fine. but for the most part you should have just given an AACT (casting + molasses bubbled 24hr) once, and then plain water (ro water or rain water) for the first 3-4 weeks after transplant and then started on a regimen of nutrients after that (and yes the ph of those nutrients matters for the reason i've stated above, if you dissolve that lime entirely you will lose the ph buffer).

also im not sure how you're checking the ph of your soil, but basically unless you have a good tool like a bluelab ph probe or something like that, the cheaper tools are in fact quite useless.

also another thing to consider... when you let a pot get really light and dry, not only do you slow the processes of the microbes in the soil, you slow CEC which is responsible for nutrient availability and uptake.... and also something even more important is that things will start to precipitate out of solution (which means they will start to form bonds with each other and form soluble and sometimes insoluble compounds) in the soil. this not only creates a build up of things in your soil, but it will also make it hard for your plant to use these things because the microbes are the only thing that can break them back down (which requires moisture)


sorry i'm sure this is an overload of information... but it's all very accurate and very important to understand all of these concepts. So to fix your problem.... i would be trying to get the soil to an even moisture and keep it there all the time, and peat moss can be very hard to hydrate once it has gone dry because it gets hydrophobic. once you get the soil moist, you should probably give it some cal mag as you've been locking it out with the excess K. you should start to see it perk up a bit.... but you've done a lot of damage already....
Thanks for your reply, I was told that much molasses wasnt an issue from an organic grower, I guess he was wrong. As far as your advice, I did exactly that, ffof, with water and molasses to feed my microherd. no nutes. You obviously didnt read my post, i already did some calmag and i understand the reason for aact's. Unlike your judgement, I DO have an understanding of how organics work. as far as your guess of me using some cheap tool to measure ph youre wrong again. Im taking a sample of soil and reliably testing it. Thanks for your input.
 

Camelbak44

New Member
It's definitely lockout...And the way you water.

The way you're watering also ruins the reason why you would be using molasses.

You want the pot to get lighter absolutely...But if that top inch is bone dry, you lost all that microherd life, which maybe could of helped uptake all that extra potassium, but instead they died...And all that potassium has locked up your Magnesium, and when your mag ratio is too high it can make your soil compact. Which fucks with your root growths, which might explain your yellow looking new growth.
I would just plain water for a bit...
okay thanks.
 

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
Thanks for your reply, I was told that much molasses wasnt an issue from an organic grower, I guess he was wrong. As far as your advice, I did exactly that, ffof, with water and molasses to feed my microherd. no nutes. You obviously didnt read my post, i already did some calmag and i understand the reason for aact's. Unlike your judgement, I DO have an understanding of how organics work. as far as your guess of me using some cheap tool to measure ph youre wrong again. Im taking a sample of soil and reliably testing it. Thanks for your input.
i obviously did, in fact, read your post because I responded to every single aspect of it. I'm not inferring that you don't have an "understanding" of organics, i was simply trying to correct a few things you were doing. ex: you would not let the soil get bone dry at the top, you would have a mulch down to keep it moist, as that's the region of the plant's rhizosphere that does the most nutrient uptake, so keeping the microherd as alive and active as possible is the best thing to do, not let it go dry. you shouldn't be feeding your micros molasses often, they should be feeding on things in the soil. and assuming something was ok because it's "organic"...

i'm not trying to be a smart ass, i'm just trying to help you. nothing is personal, just trying to give good advice and give the help you asked for
 
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greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Do you use molasses every watering? If so, that's what's causing your problems. Molasses has a 'rough' npk of 1-0-5 and it's likely too much potassium is locking out the uptake of other nutrients.
I'm not really experienced enough to give you a good remedy, but hopefully one of the more knowledgeable organic heads will chime in @greasemonkeymann @Rasta Roy
bingo!
you are right on my man, and don't ask how I know...
it ain't from just reading..
that one time I thought it'd be a good idea to source my potassium with BSM..
just not a good idea, and it locks out cal like a mofo, not to mention have odd effects n the drainage, seems to cake @ the drainage holes, akin to a salt grow
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Thanks for your reply, I was told that much molasses wasnt an issue from an organic grower, I guess he was wrong. As far as your advice, I did exactly that, ffof, with water and molasses to feed my microherd. no nutes. You obviously didnt read my post, i already did some calmag and i understand the reason for aact's. Unlike your judgement, I DO have an understanding of how organics work. as far as your guess of me using some cheap tool to measure ph youre wrong again. Im taking a sample of soil and reliably testing it. Thanks for your input.
shluby didn't mean it that way man, he's a good guy
it's all good man, many many many growers have learned that the hard way
now.... as far as whomever told you to use molasses, i'd avoid listening to them at this point, at least in regards to an organic grow.
molasses does NOT have a place in regards to it's usage for a soil nutrient
if you want to brew aacts that's different, but for nutrients, I strongly urge you to not use molasses that way.
trust me.
or not, but it'll do what happened to you, pretty much every time.
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
I just watered last night and they werent quite ready ( would have been ready for water today or tomorrow though) but i wanted to get them some calmag/nutes right away so i watered early. but typically, i water once or twice a week. I wait for a very light pot and the top inch to be dry as a bone
his point is that you can add allllll the calcium you want to, but if the soil has waaay too much potassium the calcium will be locked out
no matter what you do
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
also worth mentioning that you don't want to use molasses to feed the microbial population in your soil, you want them consuming and going through your nutrients, not giving them molasses to consume
molasses ONLY should be used to make aacts, past that and you'll be walking the thin line of error
 

STX.OrganicGuerilla

Active Member
Can I use a mix of EWC, High P Bat Guano, and Molasses bubbled 24 hr, as a brew recipe?
Would this be good to introduce microbes to my plants?
Any additions or comments?
 

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Can I use a mix of EWC, High P Bat Guano, and Molasses bubbled 24 hr, as a brew recipe?
Would this be good to introduce microbes to my plants?
Any additions or comments?
If you're just trying to introduce Microbes then just use the ewc and molasses.

If your plants could use some phosphorus and calcium too, then add the high p, but if you're not in flower or your plants are already heavily fertilized I would leave it out.
 

STX.OrganicGuerilla

Active Member
If you're just trying to introduce Microbes then just use the ewc and molasses.

If your plants could use some phosphorus and calcium too, then add the high p, but if you're not in flower or your plants are already heavily fertilized I would leave it out.
Say when I start a few more plants and they start to use up all nutrients in the soil there can I hit em with the ewc+molasses and let her be. and maybe another tea after transplant? And one highP tea early in flower?
 

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
Say when I start a few more plants and they start to use up all nutrients in the soil there can I hit em with the ewc+molasses and let her be. and maybe another tea after transplant? And one highP tea early in flower?
well if all the nutes in the soil are used up... what are the microbes going to eat???? microbes eat nutrients and turn them into plant food, the plant can only take in what the microbes excrete out or what is dissolvable in water. you'd be better off topdressing new nutrients and covering them with a mulch, which will feed the microbes, which will feed the plant....
 
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