stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
First day of flowering ....(Pic taken at the very First hour...)
{Current Settings }System's Power at plug : 250 Watts .
{Current Settings }System's Power at plug : 250 Watts .
GD-SDS .Short notice / update..
- Thread starter stardustsailor
- Start date
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
3rd day into flowering . ( cycle : 13/11 ) ....
Ambient temps (outside tent ) are close to 27°C by now ....
Inside tent ,temp is ~ 30°C ..
...
They need lots of water,every day ..(volume of pots :~ 10 liters ) ...
Maybe perlite is bit more ,than it should ...
Anyway ...So far ,so good ...
..
Ambient temps (outside tent ) are close to 27°C by now ....
Inside tent ,temp is ~ 30°C ..
...
They need lots of water,every day ..(volume of pots :~ 10 liters ) ...
Maybe perlite is bit more ,than it should ...
Anyway ...So far ,so good ...
..
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Some notes :
....
^^^^ That is the plant that it's first two vegging weeks (first 14 days ) ,
was exposed under heavy "deep red spectrum " ...
I'm kinda worried about it's lame main stem ....
Hope it 'll get thicker by time ...
...
^^^This was the plant closer to Cool Whites 6000-7000K panel ...
Thick-stocky stem ..And it continues it's secondary growth ....
More 'bushy' plant ,also ...
-Still ,these examples might prove nothing .It can be of different genetic traits .
....
Distance Canopy -Led level is kept @ average 12 inches ( ~ 30 cm ) ...
Although ,I do get plenty of indications ,that this is " still close enough" ...
Plenty of Sun Adapted leaves ...
...
Plants have reached the average height of 16 inches ..( 1' 4" / ~ 40 cm )
...
Canopy is "rich " and grows really fast ....
Though leaves are smaller ( for the 'strain' ) than those of plants(of same strain ) ,
grown under plenty of NW /CW leds ..
More Sun Adapted,in plenty of ways ..( Due to Deep Red Leds ? ) ....
I've to regulate their feeding schedule,also ...
They seem to 'assimilate' nutrients ,pretty fast and much ....
....^^^^ That is the plant that it's first two vegging weeks (first 14 days ) ,
was exposed under heavy "deep red spectrum " ...
I'm kinda worried about it's lame main stem ....
Hope it 'll get thicker by time ...
...^^^This was the plant closer to Cool Whites 6000-7000K panel ...
Thick-stocky stem ..And it continues it's secondary growth ....
More 'bushy' plant ,also ...
-Still ,these examples might prove nothing .It can be of different genetic traits .
....Distance Canopy -Led level is kept @ average 12 inches ( ~ 30 cm ) ...
Although ,I do get plenty of indications ,that this is " still close enough" ...
Plenty of Sun Adapted leaves ...
...Plants have reached the average height of 16 inches ..( 1' 4" / ~ 40 cm )
...Canopy is "rich " and grows really fast ....
Though leaves are smaller ( for the 'strain' ) than those of plants(of same strain ) ,
grown under plenty of NW /CW leds ..
More Sun Adapted,in plenty of ways ..( Due to Deep Red Leds ? ) ....
I've to regulate their feeding schedule,also ...
They seem to 'assimilate' nutrients ,pretty fast and much ....
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Great grow so far. Nice even canopy and thick side branches.
Subscribed.
Subscribed.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Yes...
I think the whole led system ,up till now at least ,is proving to be working ...
Still ,I need to make couple a grows more with it ,before "trimming " any of it's aspects ..
Still ,I kinda feel ,that (personal choice ,strictly..) I've found the leds that I like ..
( At least spectrum-wise ...I'm waiting for the more powerful bins to hit the market ..)
My whole -personal- "spectral theory " ,about horticultural use of leds ,is covered-more than fine- by the four different types of leds ,that already are used .
Now ,I need the most efficient types/bins of them ...
And maybe ,just maybe ,some slight alterations to their number ratios ,
taking into account the flux ( output power ) changes with new bins used ....
Those three types of PC white leds ,along with some Deep/Hyper Reds ....
Simply ....Addicted to that combo ...
"Religion " ....
Almost ...
(....And one thing more to prove how easy is reflow soldering : Leds are still working just fine ...
Have not done any real -serious "Heat management/Cooling " measurements yet ....
This is a prototype system ...I've learned lots ,through plenty of .."mishappens " & mistakes that I've made , with it ...
Still I want a PID microcontroller ,PC programmed ,reflow -oven ,to reflow the leds of System #2 ....
......( ASAP ..... )
And then,I'll make some serious heat-management measurements .....
I've found ,even ,a 'source ' that can provide me a color thermal camera ,for a day or so ....
So,I've to wait ,to use every ' tool ',that I can get ,at the ' right' moment ...
Still ...Kitchen stove ,manually reflowed leds ....Working fine ,up to the moment .... )
I think the whole led system ,up till now at least ,is proving to be working ...
Still ,I need to make couple a grows more with it ,before "trimming " any of it's aspects ..
Still ,I kinda feel ,that (personal choice ,strictly..) I've found the leds that I like ..
( At least spectrum-wise ...I'm waiting for the more powerful bins to hit the market ..)
My whole -personal- "spectral theory " ,about horticultural use of leds ,is covered-more than fine- by the four different types of leds ,that already are used .
Now ,I need the most efficient types/bins of them ...
And maybe ,just maybe ,some slight alterations to their number ratios ,
taking into account the flux ( output power ) changes with new bins used ....
Those three types of PC white leds ,along with some Deep/Hyper Reds ....
Simply ....Addicted to that combo ...
"Religion " ....
Almost ...
(....And one thing more to prove how easy is reflow soldering : Leds are still working just fine ...
Have not done any real -serious "Heat management/Cooling " measurements yet ....
This is a prototype system ...I've learned lots ,through plenty of .."mishappens " & mistakes that I've made , with it ...
Still I want a PID microcontroller ,PC programmed ,reflow -oven ,to reflow the leds of System #2 ....
......( ASAP ..... ) And then,I'll make some serious heat-management measurements .....
I've found ,even ,a 'source ' that can provide me a color thermal camera ,for a day or so ....
So,I've to wait ,to use every ' tool ',that I can get ,at the ' right' moment ...
Still ...Kitchen stove ,manually reflowed leds ....Working fine ,up to the moment .... )
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
I think you are mos def onto something. The main stalks of the 2 clones under led all WW are thin, and, the secondary node branches remain short, not really growing. So, following your lead, I just replaced on 7w ww with 7.5w NW with plans to replace the other 7w ww with another 7.5w NW in my spiltter
Until reading your post, I was thinking the problem was late root development, which still can be a actor, but...
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Pet ,I don't know if I've made myself clear enough ....
What I'mn noticing (not for the first time to be honest ) here is this :
- Most probably ,there is a wl range ,somewhere in the blue part
( hard guess ? Somewhere in between 450-480 nm ...) ,
that ' youngsters ' ( seedlings only ) ,utilise somehow ,to " figure out " light intensity** ....
( through PHY or / and CRY action ,most possibly ..)...
Most probably again,the photomorphogenesis occuring is the result of that " first" light "signals " ...
Making a plant "follow" somesort of a 'certain' pheno-expression .....
( bushy -stocky-branchy-leafy-dark green leaves-thick stems -plenty of ' bud sites '-massive lateral rootballs- etc )
What ,I 've noticed is this :
The "stimulus" is needed only for a shortwhile ....
As plant gets 'older' -& bigger - that kind of light ,may start affecting -in a negative way -the metabolism of a "grown/"adult" plant ...
WTF ...I'll say it ...
.Blue light is for plants what is milk ,for mammals ....
Beneficial for an infant-baby , but builds lots of fat around internal organs if still consumed on later stages of growth ....
Along with messing up the stomach and the rest after ...
Mammals can consume ,trouble-free & beneficially for health , "by-products" of 'fermented' milk,like cheese or other ..
But not ,raw milk ...
Ok...Something like that ...More or less ...
Say the stimulus is there ,for the first week of vegging or so ....
Afterwards ,even if the stimulus is 'removed' (no more blue light ) plants ,keep on following same "growth pattern " ...
Gene -expression is 'locked ',somehow ..
For certain aspects of the plant ...
And won't change no more ...
Not in an easy way,at least ..It will stress the plant(s),most probably
(I.e . HPS=> Sunlight ...Or Sunlight => HPS ....Many plants ,die or suffer ...)
Plant has chosen ,how to ' express ' certain ,permanent ,characteristics /procedures ..
'Stimulus' is no longer needed ....
Or worse ,it can have deleterious metabolic effects on adult plant(s),if persistent ...
( I.e Photo-inhibition , low mesophyll conductance of CO2 ,heat stress ,excess transpiration ,etc )
Specially, regarding a non-fluctuating light power/duration of an artif . lighting schedule ...
That's what I've been noticing ...
That ,indeed ,some more blue light ,is needed at the very start ..First 10-14 days ...
Then ,the plants* ,can go on living & thriving ,even with detrimental amounts of blue light ..
(As the plants at current grow do .... )
-*Always referrin' to mj ... Not to be misunderstood-
What I'mn noticing (not for the first time to be honest ) here is this :
- Most probably ,there is a wl range ,somewhere in the blue part
( hard guess ? Somewhere in between 450-480 nm ...) ,
that ' youngsters ' ( seedlings only ) ,utilise somehow ,to " figure out " light intensity** ....
( through PHY or / and CRY action ,most possibly ..)...
So,to continue ....** A kind of geographical region prediction ?
Blue light at Mediterranean Spring is plenty ..
Only to be followed by a powerful ,long lasting summer sun ....
Something that does not happen in the Tropics -Equatorial zone ,in the same ways ...
As light there ,is totally different ..And plants ,grow differently under it ..
^^^ Check where at blue region ,the largest changes ,happen / peak ,
in relation with Sun's angle to the Sky .
( Seasonal Changes of Sunlight : Power -Spectrum-Angle-Duration )
Maybe ,plants ,(-have to _ ) know "what to expect " for the rest of their life cycle ,already from seedling stage ..
And ,my guess ,is yes ,that is the correct -crucial- timming ,for them ,to "realise " ,
in what kind of environment ( light-water-temperatures-humidity) are going to fulfill the rest of their life cycle ....
They have to "know " from soon enough ,so to start 'choosing' ,different gene expressions ,
in order to best 'acclimatize ' to the forthcoming seasonal (enviromental ) 'expected' changes .....
Survival of the fittest ..
The one "fitting" better / best to the environment ...
Most probably again,the photomorphogenesis occuring is the result of that " first" light "signals " ...
Making a plant "follow" somesort of a 'certain' pheno-expression .....
( bushy -stocky-branchy-leafy-dark green leaves-thick stems -plenty of ' bud sites '-massive lateral rootballs- etc )
What ,I 've noticed is this :
The "stimulus" is needed only for a shortwhile ....
As plant gets 'older' -& bigger - that kind of light ,may start affecting -in a negative way -the metabolism of a "grown/"adult" plant ...
WTF ...I'll say it ...
.Blue light is for plants what is milk ,for mammals ....
Beneficial for an infant-baby , but builds lots of fat around internal organs if still consumed on later stages of growth ....
Along with messing up the stomach and the rest after ...
Mammals can consume ,trouble-free & beneficially for health , "by-products" of 'fermented' milk,like cheese or other ..
But not ,raw milk ...
Ok...Something like that ...More or less ...
Say the stimulus is there ,for the first week of vegging or so ....
Afterwards ,even if the stimulus is 'removed' (no more blue light ) plants ,keep on following same "growth pattern " ...
Gene -expression is 'locked ',somehow ..
For certain aspects of the plant ...
And won't change no more ...
Not in an easy way,at least ..It will stress the plant(s),most probably
(I.e . HPS=> Sunlight ...Or Sunlight => HPS ....Many plants ,die or suffer ...)
Plant has chosen ,how to ' express ' certain ,permanent ,characteristics /procedures ..
'Stimulus' is no longer needed ....
Or worse ,it can have deleterious metabolic effects on adult plant(s),if persistent ...
( I.e Photo-inhibition , low mesophyll conductance of CO2 ,heat stress ,excess transpiration ,etc )
Specially, regarding a non-fluctuating light power/duration of an artif . lighting schedule ...
That's what I've been noticing ...
That ,indeed ,some more blue light ,is needed at the very start ..First 10-14 days ...
Then ,the plants* ,can go on living & thriving ,even with detrimental amounts of blue light ..
(As the plants at current grow do .... )
-*Always referrin' to mj ... Not to be misunderstood-
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Not enough blue light. Been saying this all along. Blue light builds stems and leaves. Better to switch over to all WW when the flowers have already been established.
GS is running all WW right now, you should consult with him about it and see if he's having a similar issue.
NW are the way to go IMO. The new panel I finished a few days ago uses 40w of NW and the plants are liking. My NW peak at 460nm and 610nm covering Chl. B and the amber regions.
Gotto love the mystery eh?!?! Lol
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
....
...
Some of (many-many )good reads,about it :
First the very good one :
Blue Light Receptors and Signal Transduction
http://www.plantcell.org/content/14/suppl_1/S207.short
....and some rest ....
Summary
Plants are very sensitive to their light environment. They use cryptochromes and phytochromes to scan the light spectrum. Those two families of photoreceptors mediate a number of similar physiological responses. The putative bHLH (basic Helix Loop Helix) transcription factor long hypocotyl in far-red (HFR1) is important for a subset of phytochrome A (phyA)-mediated light responses. Interestingly, hfr1 alleles also have reduced de-etiolation responses, including hypocotyl growth, cotyledon opening and anthocyanin accumulation, when grown in blue light. This phenotype is particularly apparent under high fluence rates. The analysis of double mutants between hfr1 and different blue light photoreceptor mutants demonstrates that, in addition to its role in phyA signalling, HFR1 is a component of cryptochrome 1 (cry1)-mediated light signalling. Moreover, HFR1 mRNA levels are high both in blue and in far-red light but low in red light. These results identify HFR1 as a positively acting component of cry1 signalling and indicate that HFR1 integrates light signals from both phyA and cry1.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-313X.2001.01027.x/full
ABSTRACT
In higher plants, natural radiation simultaneously activates more than one photoreceptor. Five phytochromes (phyA through phyD), two cryptochromes (cry1, cry2) and phototropin have been identified in the model species Arabidopsis thaliana. There is light-dependent epistasis among certain photoreceptor genes because the action of one pigment can be affected by the activity of others. Under red light, phyA and phyB are antagonistic, but under far-red light, followed by brief red light, phyA and phyB are synergistic in the control of seedling morphology and the expression of some genes during de-etiolation. Under short photoperiods of red and blue light, cry1 and phyB are synergistic, but under continuous exposure to the same light field the actions of phyB and cry1 become independent and additive. Phototropic bending of the shoot toward unilateral blue light is mediated by phototropin, but cry1, cry2, phyA and phyB positively regulate the response. Finally, cry2* and phyB are antagonistic in the induction of flowering. At least some of these interactions are likely to result from cross talk of the photoreceptor signaling pathways and uncover new avenues to approach signal transduction. Experiments under natural radiation are beginning to show that the interactions create a phototransduction network with emergent properties. This provides a more robust system for light perception in plants.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1562/0031-8655(2000)0710001PCPPII2.0.CO2/abstract
Abstract
Cryptochrome is a group of flavin-type blue light receptors that regulate plant growth and development. The function of Arabidopsis cryptochrome 2* in the early photomorphogenesis of seedlings was studied by using transgenic plants overexpressing CRY2 protein, and cry2 mutant plants accumulating no CRY2 protein. It is found that cryptochrome 2 mediates blue light-dependent inhibition of hypocotyl elongation and stimulation of cotyledon opening under low intensities of blue light. In contrast to CRY1, the expression of CRY2 is rapidly down-regulated by blue light in a light-intensity dependent manner, which provides a molecular mechanism to explain at least in part that cryptochrome 2 functions primarily under low light during the early development of seedlings.
http://www.pnas.org/content/95/5/2686.short
Abstract
Using dichromatic radiation, we show that the actions of phytochromes A and B (phyA and phyB) in Arabidopsis thaliana are antagonistic in mediating red and far-red radiation effects on seedling de-etiolation and yet act in a complementary manner to regulate de-etiolation, irrespective of spectral composition.
At low phytochrome photoequilibria inhibition of hypocotyl extension was strong, because of the action of a far-red high-irradiance response mediated by phyA.
At high phytochrome photoequilibria inhibition of hypocotyl extension was also strong, because of the action of phyB. At intermediate photoequilibria hypocotyl inhibition was less strong. In their natural environment, this dual action will strongly retard hypocotyl growth and promote cotyledon opening and expansion both in open daylight and under dense vegetation. Overlapping action by phyA and phyB will substantially promote de-etiolation in sparse vegetation. The antagonistic and complementary actions of phyA and phyB, therefore, allow the optimum regulation of seedling growth after emergence from the soil.
http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/114/2/637.short
...Some of (many-many )good reads,about it :
First the very good one :
Blue Light Receptors and Signal Transduction
http://www.plantcell.org/content/14/suppl_1/S207.short
....and some rest ....
Summary
Plants are very sensitive to their light environment. They use cryptochromes and phytochromes to scan the light spectrum. Those two families of photoreceptors mediate a number of similar physiological responses. The putative bHLH (basic Helix Loop Helix) transcription factor long hypocotyl in far-red (HFR1) is important for a subset of phytochrome A (phyA)-mediated light responses. Interestingly, hfr1 alleles also have reduced de-etiolation responses, including hypocotyl growth, cotyledon opening and anthocyanin accumulation, when grown in blue light. This phenotype is particularly apparent under high fluence rates. The analysis of double mutants between hfr1 and different blue light photoreceptor mutants demonstrates that, in addition to its role in phyA signalling, HFR1 is a component of cryptochrome 1 (cry1)-mediated light signalling. Moreover, HFR1 mRNA levels are high both in blue and in far-red light but low in red light. These results identify HFR1 as a positively acting component of cry1 signalling and indicate that HFR1 integrates light signals from both phyA and cry1.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-313X.2001.01027.x/full
ABSTRACT
In higher plants, natural radiation simultaneously activates more than one photoreceptor. Five phytochromes (phyA through phyD), two cryptochromes (cry1, cry2) and phototropin have been identified in the model species Arabidopsis thaliana. There is light-dependent epistasis among certain photoreceptor genes because the action of one pigment can be affected by the activity of others. Under red light, phyA and phyB are antagonistic, but under far-red light, followed by brief red light, phyA and phyB are synergistic in the control of seedling morphology and the expression of some genes during de-etiolation. Under short photoperiods of red and blue light, cry1 and phyB are synergistic, but under continuous exposure to the same light field the actions of phyB and cry1 become independent and additive. Phototropic bending of the shoot toward unilateral blue light is mediated by phototropin, but cry1, cry2, phyA and phyB positively regulate the response. Finally, cry2* and phyB are antagonistic in the induction of flowering. At least some of these interactions are likely to result from cross talk of the photoreceptor signaling pathways and uncover new avenues to approach signal transduction. Experiments under natural radiation are beginning to show that the interactions create a phototransduction network with emergent properties. This provides a more robust system for light perception in plants.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1562/0031-8655(2000)0710001PCPPII2.0.CO2/abstract
Abstract
Cryptochrome is a group of flavin-type blue light receptors that regulate plant growth and development. The function of Arabidopsis cryptochrome 2* in the early photomorphogenesis of seedlings was studied by using transgenic plants overexpressing CRY2 protein, and cry2 mutant plants accumulating no CRY2 protein. It is found that cryptochrome 2 mediates blue light-dependent inhibition of hypocotyl elongation and stimulation of cotyledon opening under low intensities of blue light. In contrast to CRY1, the expression of CRY2 is rapidly down-regulated by blue light in a light-intensity dependent manner, which provides a molecular mechanism to explain at least in part that cryptochrome 2 functions primarily under low light during the early development of seedlings.
http://www.pnas.org/content/95/5/2686.short
Abstract
Using dichromatic radiation, we show that the actions of phytochromes A and B (phyA and phyB) in Arabidopsis thaliana are antagonistic in mediating red and far-red radiation effects on seedling de-etiolation and yet act in a complementary manner to regulate de-etiolation, irrespective of spectral composition.
At low phytochrome photoequilibria inhibition of hypocotyl extension was strong, because of the action of a far-red high-irradiance response mediated by phyA.
At high phytochrome photoequilibria inhibition of hypocotyl extension was also strong, because of the action of phyB. At intermediate photoequilibria hypocotyl inhibition was less strong. In their natural environment, this dual action will strongly retard hypocotyl growth and promote cotyledon opening and expansion both in open daylight and under dense vegetation. Overlapping action by phyA and phyB will substantially promote de-etiolation in sparse vegetation. The antagonistic and complementary actions of phyA and phyB, therefore, allow the optimum regulation of seedling growth after emergence from the soil.
http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/114/2/637.short
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Blue light ....
For seedlings ....?
Yes ,needed .....
For ( Short Day) flowering adult plants,into reproductive stage/state ?
Hmmmmm.....
cry2* and phyB are antagonistic in the induction of flowering.
......
the expression of CRY2is rapidly down-regulated by blue light in a light-intensity dependent manner..
...
Got a 'connection' ,there ?
Fonzarelli
Active Member
From seedling through flower initiation then switch to WW spectrum. Why not try it? It's been working quite well indoobidibly. Lol
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Same reason you don't switch to flowering nutes on day 1 of flower. Because the plant stays in vegging mode for a good week into 12/12.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Actually,what I've noticed ,is that the plant(s) ,gradually " fade out " from their vegging state into the reproductive .
And usually it takes more than the first 7 days of cycle change ...
From my experience ,it completely "fades out " (vegging procedures ) by the end of 4th week into flowering .
More or less .
Some Indica dom strains ,do 'enter' the reproductive state ,in a more "fierce" manner ,
while some others -mostly heavily Sativa dom strains -kinda "take their time " ....
But that's based just on visual observations of certain aspects .
I.e . Internodal stretching, changes in phyllotaxy ,etc ...
Not on any kind of acquired scientific data ...
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
A correction to this, though it is probably unrelated to 'blue' light
WTF ...I'll say it ...
.Blue light is for plants what is milk ,for mammals ....
Beneficial for an infant-baby , but builds lots of fat around internal organs if still consumed on later stages of growth ....
Along with messing up the stomach and the rest after ...
Mammals can consume ,trouble-free & beneficially for health , "by-products" of 'fermented' milk,like cheese or other ..
But not ,raw milk ...
Ok...Something like that ...More or less ...
The problem with milk is pasteurization & homogenization, both of which destroy any living beneficial elements in milk. Raw milk, in fact is excellent, though raw goat milk is easier to digest. My company sells Pet Flora, a mufti-strain SOIL-BASED probiotic, which both humans and pets benefit from to maintain a healthy immune system
Oh, and since replacing 2 WW CREESs (18w/3000K) with 15w of 5000K Utilitechs, the new primary Leafs are more normal looking, and reaching for the light. I take that to mean that they like (need) some blue in the 5000K range, what nms that equates to is...? Perhaps in early veg the percentage is more, but as they mature, they need less, but not none.
Which I could make direct comparisons to the same clones under my HOT5, alas, I cannot. You would have to follow my thread to see why. However, the 2 HOT5 clones have been blooming for several weeks, whereas the LED tent clones only have rudimentary pistils at this point.
WTF ...I'll say it ...
.Blue light is for plants what is milk ,for mammals ....
Beneficial for an infant-baby , but builds lots of fat around internal organs if still consumed on later stages of growth ....
Along with messing up the stomach and the rest after ...
Mammals can consume ,trouble-free & beneficially for health , "by-products" of 'fermented' milk,like cheese or other ..
But not ,raw milk ...
Ok...Something like that ...More or less ...
The problem with milk is pasteurization & homogenization, both of which destroy any living beneficial elements in milk. Raw milk, in fact is excellent, though raw goat milk is easier to digest. My company sells Pet Flora, a mufti-strain SOIL-BASED probiotic, which both humans and pets benefit from to maintain a healthy immune system
Oh, and since replacing 2 WW CREESs (18w/3000K) with 15w of 5000K Utilitechs, the new primary Leafs are more normal looking, and reaching for the light. I take that to mean that they like (need) some blue in the 5000K range, what nms that equates to is...? Perhaps in early veg the percentage is more, but as they mature, they need less, but not none.
Which I could make direct comparisons to the same clones under my HOT5, alas, I cannot. You would have to follow my thread to see why. However, the 2 HOT5 clones have been blooming for several weeks, whereas the LED tent clones only have rudimentary pistils at this point.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Or even 'manipulate' the whole 'transition' thing ...
By plenty of ways ...
Light spectrum ,makes a difference ( the 'pairs ' : Far Red vs Red & Red vs Blue ) ...
But the ' light duration ' also ...
Instead of going from a vegging cycle of 18 / 6 into 12 / 12 ,for example ..
( A "jump-start " flowering ,almost ) ..
It can be 18 / 6 => 13 / 11 => 12.30 / 11.30 => 12/ 12 ....
Two more "transition " weeks ....
Flowering comes more smoothly and vegging also smoothly ' fades out '..
Due to the fact that apical meristem(s) is(/are) still growing(thus new bud-sites produced/formed ) ,
while flowering takes place at same time ....
For longer period of time ,during flowering ..
(Than in 18/6=>12/12 .... )
Bud shape ,becomes kinda 'elongated '.....
-plenty of bud sites along the middle-top part of the stem(s)-
Now , if the goal to " fill -swell " them until harvest ,is achieved ..
The ' final outcome' is going to be much -much better ,
than another ,'originating 'from a "jump-start flowering transition " ....
I've been there ....
I've seen it ...
By plenty of ways ...
Light spectrum ,makes a difference ( the 'pairs ' : Far Red vs Red & Red vs Blue ) ...
But the ' light duration ' also ...
Instead of going from a vegging cycle of 18 / 6 into 12 / 12 ,for example ..
( A "jump-start " flowering ,almost ) ..
It can be 18 / 6 => 13 / 11 => 12.30 / 11.30 => 12/ 12 ....
Two more "transition " weeks ....
Flowering comes more smoothly and vegging also smoothly ' fades out '..
Due to the fact that apical meristem(s) is(/are) still growing(thus new bud-sites produced/formed ) ,
while flowering takes place at same time ....
For longer period of time ,during flowering ..
(Than in 18/6=>12/12 .... )
Bud shape ,becomes kinda 'elongated '.....
-plenty of bud sites along the middle-top part of the stem(s)-
Now , if the goal to " fill -swell " them until harvest ,is achieved ..
The ' final outcome' is going to be much -much better ,
than another ,'originating 'from a "jump-start flowering transition " ....
I've been there ....
I've seen it ...
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
" ....Experimental grows need often observations ...."
( Daily Bull$ .)
So ....
The usual -by now-almost daily update ...
5th day of flowering ....
....
Canopy keeps 'multiplying' and growing ,real fine ...
....
A bit of internodal stretching starts to be evident ,at one of two ...
....
Two different phenos ... (Seeds from same mom plant ..)
....
One more "spindly-tally" ....
One more "squaty " ...
Gene Expression altered by light at seedling-young stage or
just way different genome ?
-Or even different reaction to topping ?
-Usually from that 'batch ' of WR seeds ,I get almost 99.99% same -identical plants -...
Of the Squaty pheno ...
....
A Closer look ...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Tent's Power is 320 Watts at plug ...
Tent has :
- 1x S&P TD Silent 100/160 Exaust Fan ,set at ' low ' ( ~100 m^3 / h )
- 4x 120 mm PC Case Fans @ 12 Volt.For Air circulation .
-1x ATX PSU for powering the Case fans .
-1x MeanWell PSU for the led system ....
-9x Recom Buck drivers driving the leds ..
-6x 48 Volt 80 mm Case fans ,for cooling the leds ,set @ ~50 Volt .
-108x Oslon leds ,driven all -by now - @ 700mA .
--------------------
Ta = ~30°C inside tent . RH = ~ 25-35 % . Cycle : 13/11 .
( Daily Bull$ .)
So ....
The usual -by now-almost daily update ...
5th day of flowering ....
....Canopy keeps 'multiplying' and growing ,real fine ...
....A bit of internodal stretching starts to be evident ,at one of two ...
....Two different phenos ... (Seeds from same mom plant ..)
....One more "spindly-tally" ....
One more "squaty " ...
Gene Expression altered by light at seedling-young stage or
just way different genome ?
-Or even different reaction to topping ?
-Usually from that 'batch ' of WR seeds ,I get almost 99.99% same -identical plants -...
Of the Squaty pheno ...
....A Closer look ...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Tent's Power is 320 Watts at plug ...
Tent has :
- 1x S&P TD Silent 100/160 Exaust Fan ,set at ' low ' ( ~100 m^3 / h )
- 4x 120 mm PC Case Fans @ 12 Volt.For Air circulation .
-1x ATX PSU for powering the Case fans .
-1x MeanWell PSU for the led system ....
-9x Recom Buck drivers driving the leds ..
-6x 48 Volt 80 mm Case fans ,for cooling the leds ,set @ ~50 Volt .
-108x Oslon leds ,driven all -by now - @ 700mA .
--------------------
Ta = ~30°C inside tent . RH = ~ 25-35 % . Cycle : 13/11 .
Fonzarelli
Active Member
This is exactly what I've been trying to explain for the last month. During the transition they still require "veg" light along with veg nutes. After the flower set is initiated(around 2-4 week depending on strains) that's a good time to go 5-15% blue(whole range) and really watch them dense up.
Sometimes that's all we have to go by and don't need to have it backed up with any scientific data or proof.
When we observe a plant growing fast we can easily say that it is going to need more food than when it was a seedling and we don't need scientific data to back up the reason why.
Some things are obvious enough by looking.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
In nature, the light spectrum slowly transitions from blue heavy to red heavy over the course of the Summer going into Fall. So it doesn't make sense to abruptly switch over from MH to HPS in the same manner. Same goes for any/all light source.
If you do switch abruptly the plants stretch like crazy and don't have strong enough stems to support the fruits of your labor. Along with other abnormality and disaster.
If you do switch abruptly the plants stretch like crazy and don't have strong enough stems to support the fruits of your labor. Along with other abnormality and disaster.
turnip brain
Active Member
So without resources for most growers to gradually change spectrum over this time period, how about reducing hours/day while still under veg lighting prior to switching to flowering lighting?
like:
18/6 veg lighting
16/8 for 5-6 days
14/10 a few days
change to redder spectrum
couple more days 14/10
12/12
like:
18/6 veg lighting
16/8 for 5-6 days
14/10 a few days
change to redder spectrum
couple more days 14/10
12/12