Getting sick of looking at nutrient schedules....

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
Trying to settle on a new nutrient schedule for this grow, getting bored/confused/frustrated already. The full gamut.

I just noticed today my printout GH schedule doesn't even sorta match the schedule on the back of the trio bottles. Plus the growweedeasy reduced schedule also doesnt seem to match the ratios on either schedule... plus started looking at Mel Frank's, different yet again.

Looking over this writeup for the Lucas Formula (and other scheduling stuff) (http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm) it's really starting to sound like the ratios really don't matter too much. You just want to avoid over-dosing your plants on any one thing (sounds like mostly nitrogen and cal/mag are the ones you need to worry about).

Everything I've read has said that the 'RO water' requirement for the lucas formula really only exists for simplicity and fail-safe sake. Looking over the various breakdown of the other profiles, they seem to differ up to 20 ppm Mg- so as far as I can tall, my 7-8 ppm Mg (from water report) isn't going to screw with it much (my 30-50ppm cal might tho).

I also see debate over whether or not calmag is needed with Lucas, and as far as the cantina article states- "reasonably good quality source water" is needed. So if there really is wiggle-room there for cal-mag, i cant possibly imagine tap water getting in the way.

Also, looking at the raw concentration of Micro, it's not really much more than some of the GH schedules I've seen, and its definitely less than Mel Frank's recommendation.

So at the end of the day.... I think I might try the Lucas Formula with my tap water. Now what I'm wondering, is it worth it to modify the schedule to replace some Micro with Grow (for nitrogen) if I'm worried my water might be too hard? The cantina article really makes it sound like you actually have pretty good margins to work with, you just have to worry about over-feeding.

So to me it makes more sense to go the pessimistic (and possibly underfeeding route) of putting some grow back into the schedule (thinking 4M-1G-10B ratio). This should really only affect the ratio of N/K to micro-nutes (with biggest worry placed on excess micro nutes). I noticed the total K in Lucas is a little lower than the other schedules, so I don't think the increased K will be much of an issue.
 

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
Dude. I've used this schedule for over a year now. It works beautifully. Don't question it and just do it.Recirculating-Nutrient-Schedule-custom-sm.jpg
 

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
Dude. I've used this schedule for over a year now. It works beautifully. Don't question it and just do it.View attachment 3784528
Yea, I've seen the GWE one a few times- looks like a slight modification of the schedule on the back of the bottle. At this point I'm more curious about why the GH recirculating schedule has all these different ratios from what's on the bottle. Makes me not want to trust a single damn one
 

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
Yea, I've seen the GWE one a few times- looks like a slight modification of the schedule on the back of the bottle. At this point I'm more curious about why the GH recirculating schedule has all these different ratios from what's on the bottle. Makes me not want to trust a single damn one
Recirculating or dwc in general requires a MUCH less PPM of nutrients because the roots are constantly being submersed in in at it really makes a difference. I never go past 650 in flower.
 

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
I found more success in mixing my own than using the predetermined ratios in a bottle. Extremely inexpensive as well.

Not too hard either doing it the way ttystikk showed me.

Just get a high potassium mix with micros. I use chem-gro 5-11-26 but jacks makes a 5-12-26 with micros.

Epsom salt (sulphur and magnesium)

Calcium nitrate (calcium and nitrogen)

And for flower monopotassium phosphate (potassium and phosphorus)
 

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
I found more success in mixing my own than using the predetermined ratios in a bottle. Extremely inexpensive as well.

Not too hard either doing it the way ttystikk showed me.

Just get a high potassium mix with micros. I use chem-gro 5-11-26 but jacks makes a 5-12-26 with micros.

Epsom salt (sulphur and magnesium)

Calcium nitrate (calcium and nitrogen)

And for flower monopotassium phosphate (potassium and phosphorus)
Hmm, I considered this- finally got around to breaking down these other GH-based schedules I saw into base components ratios per week (mostly in the interest of comparing them). Now it seems like a headache trying to base that around the trio.

What kind of schedule/ratio do you follow (as far as components)?
 

mytwhyt

Well-Known Member
I only use one fertilizer throughout the entire grow...... It's got everything i need..... I do add a little silica blast....

Nitrogen (N)............................................... .....4.0%
0.25% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
3.75% Nitrate Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5)............................8.0%
Soluble Potash (K2O).......................................7.0%
Calcium (Ca).............................................. .......4.0%
Magnesium (Mg).............................................2 .0%
2.0% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)
Sulfur (S)............................................... ...........2.0%
2.0% Combined Sulfur (S)
Boron (B)............................................... .........0.01%
Chlorine (Cl).............................................. .....0.01%
Cobalt (Co).............................................. .....0.002%
Copper (Cu).............................................. .....0.01%
0.01% Chelated Copper (Cu)
Iron (Fe).............................................. .............0.1%
0.1% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn)...........................................0.0 3%
0.03% Chelated Manganese (Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo)......................................0.003%
Zinc (Zn).............................................. ...........0.01%
0.01% Chelated Zinc (Zn)
Derived from: Ammonium Molybdate, Ammonium Phosphate,
Calcium Nitrate, Cobalt Sulfate, Copper EDTA, Iron DTPA, Iron EDTA,
Magnesium Sulfate, Manganese EDTA, Potassium Borate, Potassium
Nitrate, Potassium Phosphate, and Zinc EDTA.
ALSO CONTAINS NON-PLANT FOOD INGREDIENT:
3.0% Citric Acid
WARNING: This product contains molybdenum (Mo). Crops high in
molybdenum can be toxic to ruminant animals. Use only according to
manufacturer’s directions.
4 - 8 - 7
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
 

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
hmm interesting, so you guys both have pretty low nitrogen ratios. The GH schedule seems to put me mostly at 2-1-3 in veg, but im seeing more and more things like 2-1-2, 1-2-2, 1-1-2, 0.5-1-2 etc for veg. Seems to me you just want x-1-2 during veg, x-2-2 during flowering. Nitrogen during veg depends on your setup, then you taper off throughout flowering.

I'm wondering if I should just use a really base level like... 0.5-1-2-0.5 mix, and just add like.... potassium nitrate or something as I go to tune the N. AFAIK none of the other nutrients block/lock out N, and N is mostly a growth thing related to light intensity. Lucas gets by with 1-2-2-0.5-1 which falls really nicely into the specs for flowering, but can still veg OK. Seems to me like i can do 1-1-2 as my base in veg, and 1-4-4 as my base for flowering, and just add extra N as needed during veg.
 
Last edited:

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
go with Lucas formula for bloom. 1-1-2

i've been using Dyna Gro Foliage Pro for veg: 3-1-2
Isn't lucas about 1-2-2?
5-0-1 micro + 2x 0-5-4 = 5-10-9

It does sound like that seems pretty popular tho: 3-1-2 veg (with good lights), 1-2-2 bloom
 

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
I decided to go with 1-1-2 for veg, hot for some reason right now, so ive got the lights down to about 300w currently. If I see N def, or turn the lights up later, I figure I can just add some potassium nitrate or something. Then 1-2-2 bloom.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
Isn't lucas about 1-2-2?
5-0-1 micro + 2x 0-5-4 = 5-10-9

It does sound like that seems pretty popular tho: 3-1-2 veg (with good lights), 1-2-2 bloom
Recommended Profile Target (from Canna Stats)
Where the 100N-100P-200K-60Mg...

you can always add cal/mg for a N boost if you need it too.
 

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
Recommended Profile Target (from Canna Stats)
Where the 100N-100P-200K-60Mg...

you can always add cal/mg for a N boost if you need it too.
good idea about the cal/mag! didnt think of that.

Yea I've been researching through pretty much every feeding plan I can, my new mix puts me at about the canna stats ratios:

90N-80P-160K-40Mg-110Ca (ppm)
530ppm calculated - 700ppm measured (not sure what happened there, cheap shitty TDS meter probably)

thats including any additives + my tap water nutrients.

I am confused about the ratios in the cannastats thing, he points to

122-99-171-68 7.5M-15B-0G 1251 $0.15

which is a 1-2-2 NPK by volume, but when you use his calculator, its 1-1-2 on PPM. So for some reason the phosphorus ratio is 1:2 ppm:vol, but everything else is 1:1 ppm:vol =\ Not sure what the math is behind that, probably because phosphorus comes as a P2 where everything else only has a single metal cation.
 

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
lol actually, can anyone give me a straight answer on that part?

NPK is % mass of a component in a solution(% mg/L).
PPM is a % mass in a solution (mg/L).

Im starting to guess that NPK is about the weight of the actual molecule (P2O5) vs PPM that just cares about the P in the P2O5 (maybe half the weight)
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
lol actually, can anyone give me a straight answer on that part?

NPK is % mass of a component in a solution(% mg/L).
PPM is a % mass in a solution (mg/L).

Im starting to guess that NPK is about the weight of the actual molecule (P2O5) vs PPM that just cares about the P in the P2O5 (maybe half the weight)
not me. way above my paygrade. but i see what you are saying with the difference.

know any phd's in chemistry?
 

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
found it!

Elemental P requires another step The guarantee is expressed as phosphate (P2O5). We need to find out how much P is in P2O5. The next step shows you that P2O5 is 43.7% P. Atomic weight: P = 31 O = 16 P2: two of them so 2 X 31 = 62g O5: five of them so 5 X 16 = 80g Total weight for P2O5 142g The proportion of P in P2O5 is [62 / 142] = 0.437
http://www.esf.edu/for/briggs/FOR345/Fertilizer Worksheet.pdf

well shit.... so NPK isnt proportional to ppm. NPK is the % mass/vol of the molecule used in the solution. So P is actually telling you how much P2O5 there is, not how much P.

well that fucks up my worksheet pretty good
 
Top