Giant Mutant Fungus Gnats

Discussion in 'Organics' started by Pedestrian, Apr 11, 2018.

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  1.  
    Pedestrian

    Pedestrian Active Member

    giant fungus gnat p.png
    Might be the nematodes, the food-grade diatomaceous earth and the cedar oil affecting their pituitary glands. Somebody else mentioned their gnats getting bigger, inspiring the illustration. I'm finally making some headway soaking the soil surface and the outside of my cloth bags with good old Organicide from Home Depot. First grow in dirt - FFOF + Dr Earth Flower Girl. Previously used BT cookies in my reservoir but don't want to use that any more.
     
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  2.  
    NewGrower2011

    NewGrower2011 Well-Known Member

    I just read somewhere else on people not wanting to use Bt... Any links/info on the reasoning - quick searches are showing people advocating use, not avoiding so having just added some to my fresh batch of soil - definitely curious. Was also looking at Spinosad and noting it's labelled as 'Outdoor Residential Use Ony' with the outdoor part seeming specific under to wonder why...
     
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  3.  
    Pedestrian

    Pedestrian Active Member

    I can't point to scientific evidence that BT is dangerous, but it is systemic in the treated plant and I doubt if the safety of smoking or vaping it has been studied. Highly doubt it is dangerous, mostly put off by the role it plays in the GMO controversy.
     
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  4.  
    NaturalFarmer

    NaturalFarmer Well-Known Member

    BTi is systematic in the plant? Doesn't it only effect the larvae development of mosquito, black flies and fungus gnats?
     
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  5.  
    Roger A. Shrubber

    Roger A. Shrubber Well-Known Member

    i've used spinosad for 3 years now, and as far as i can tell, it's not hurt me. i haven't had my stuff tested, but people use it on food crops up till harvest, and it doesn't kill bees if you apply it in the evening and it gets a chance to dry before the bees come back out.
    you have to use SOMETHING, or you have to stand there with a pair of tweezers and a magnifying glass picking bugs off manually.
    i think spinosad is one of the safest things available right now. is it 100%? i doubt it, nothing is, but compared to the alternatives, i find it acceptable.
     
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  6.  
    Crab Pot

    Crab Pot Well-Known Member


    Be careful brother. My understanding is that Spinosad is extremely dangerous. I’m talking one of the worst of the worst when it comes to your health. I don’t remember all of the details but when it’s combusted it becomes extremely toxic. It’s approved and apparently save on food crops but not when combusted, that’s the problem. It’s not approved for use on cannabis by any of the state regulators due to its toxicity when combusted.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
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  7.  
    Roger A. Shrubber

    Roger A. Shrubber Well-Known Member

    Spinosad is broken down rapidly by sunlight. In the presence of sunlight, half-lives on leaves are 2 to 16 days and less than one day in water. When applied to leaves, some spinosad can be absorbed. However, it does not readily spread from leaves to the rest of the plant. In the absence of sunlight, spinosad breaks down very slowly in water. Half-lives of more than 30 days to 259 days have been reported. However, it binds rapidly to sediment. The halflife in sediment, where no oxygen is available, ranges from 161 to 250 days.

    Spinosad also sticks to soil and has a very low potential to move through soil towards ground water. In field studies, no break down products of spinosad were found below a soil depth of two feet. In the top layers of soil, spinosad is rapidly broken down by microbes. Soil half-lives of 9 to 17 days have been reported. After it is applied, spinosad is not likely to become airborne.
    from this.> http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/spinosadgen.html

    general info > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinosad


    if you read this one, http://www.cdms.net/LDat/mp0F5022.pdf it does say that burning it MAY produce some toxic substances.
    5. FIREFIGHTING MEASURES
    Suitable extinguishing media:
    To extinguish combustible residues of this product
    use water fog,
    carbon dioxide, dry chemical or foam.
    Unsuitable extinguishing media:
    no data available
    Special hazards arising from the substance or mixtu
    re
    Hazardous combustion products:
    Under fire conditions some components of this produ
    ct may
    decompose. The smoke may contain unidentified toxic
    and/or irritating compounds. Combustion
    products may include and are not limited to: Nitro
    gen oxides. Carbon monoxide. Carbon dioxide.


    so it has a half life between 2 and 16 days in sunlight, or under grow lights. split the difference and call it a week. so after 1 week you have 50% of what didn't drip off. one week later you have 25%. one week after that you have 12.5%, then 6.25% at one month after spraying.
    it's pretty damn rare that i have to spray a plant at all once i put it in flower, and never closer than 2 months before harvest. at two months that would be .35%.....i find that to be an acceptable risk.
     
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  8.  
    Michael Huntherz

    Michael Huntherz Well-Known Member

    I am so completely not worried about spinosad.
    Lol.
    Wet pyrethrums maybe, but after that dries, fine.

    Many natural pesticides from wild plants lurking in your neighborhood, right this very minute, are more dangerous than those chemicals. I mean, don’t go licking No Pest Strips or anything... but otherwise the natural world is usually far more toxic. Learn to science, everyone.

    BT is potentially dangerous, though, when used improperly,
    Iike pyrethrum.
    And hot dogs.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  9.  
    Michael Huntherz

    Michael Huntherz Well-Known Member

    @DREGER are you stalking me? You are liking literally every post I make right now, lol. I love you too!
     
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  10.  
    NaturalFarmer

    NaturalFarmer Well-Known Member

    [QUOTE="Michael Huntherz, post: 14194547, member: 906698" Learn to science, everyone.

    BT is potentially dangerous, though, when used improperly,
    Iike pyrethrum.[/QUOTE]

    I have never heard of any danger in BTi, could you elaborate?
     
  11.  
    NaturalFarmer

    NaturalFarmer Well-Known Member

    Are you confusing Spinosad with myclobutanil (Eagle 20)?
     
  12.  
    hillbill

    hillbill Well-Known Member

    GNATROL for gnat to the size of elephants! Used dunks for year to “control” gnats. Used Gnatrol once and again for good measure. No fucking gnats!
     
  13.  
    Crab Pot

    Crab Pot Well-Known Member


    No, I don’t believe so. I used to use it myself for thrips. There is a discussion about it somewhere in theses Kis Organics podcasts. I believe it was episode 15. If I get the time today, I’ll listen to the podcast again to see exactly where the issue was discussed.

    https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/podcast
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  14.  
    Michael Huntherz

    Michael Huntherz Well-Known Member

    I was wrong, I was misinformed long ago, and failed to update my understanding.

    Thanks for helping me check myself, I found a great paper on BT for anyone who is interested.
    Bacillus thuringiensis: a century of research, development and commercial applications”
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1467-7652.2011.00595.x
     
  15.  
    Michael Huntherz

    Michael Huntherz Well-Known Member

    Listening now, she is awesome!

    I didn’t hear a single word about Spinosad, but I didn’t listen to every second of it closely. Pretty sure it wasn’t in there, but totally worth the time.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  16.  
    Pedestrian

    Pedestrian Active Member

    I like that Spinosad is OMRI listed. My BT cookies (Summit Mosquito Dunks) don't have that. My view is that we live in a sea of man-made chemicals, and some may have dangers that haven't become apparent, especially in combination or with novel means of ingestion like smoking or vaping. The nervous system only evolved once - if it's bad for an insect's nerves it would be bad for us. If your pesticide has to break down, are we sure the process is complete?
     
  17.  
    Michael Huntherz

    Michael Huntherz Well-Known Member

    I like spinosad, too. :bigjoint:
    1. We live in a sea of chemicals, most of them are natural...many of those natural chemicals are quite dangerous. “My [your] view” doesn’t matter at all, that’s just how the universe is.
    2. Yes.

    Man made chemicals are not inherently worse than natural chemicals. The idea that the natural world is safe or optimal in any way is a completely disprovable fantasy. Nature is beautiful and amazing, but also deadly and unforgiving. We need to stop this sort of “nature is perfect” thinking in its tracks every time we encounter it in ourselves or others.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
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  18.  
    hillbill

    hillbill Well-Known Member

    GNATROL is safe for sure.
     
  19.  
    Pedestrian

    Pedestrian Active Member

    I'm sure I take known health risks greater than the pest remedies we're discussing, and I never said nature is perfect. At least we co-evolved with nature's poisons. I'm sure they are much more (potentially) dangerous when isolated and manufactured. I'm old and can remember many times we were told something was safe to later find out it wasn't - Like riding our bikes behind the Jeeps spraying DDT in my swampy NJ hometown.
     
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  20.  
    hillbill

    hillbill Well-Known Member

    Humans have come up with an amazing number of chemicals and many are incredibly dangerous and persistent in the environment. Please don't dismiss the ability of these to cause great harm to people and environments like the one inside your house.
     
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