Gypsum anyone?

My apologies to @Tupapa and @ttystikk. I am a prick and it shows when I get ticked off. I shouldn't have insulted you both though.

NaturalFarmer said:

Here is your answer.
"The solubility constant of gypsum is 2.4 x 10-5. That means if you have solid gypsum in equilibrium with water, the concentration of Ca (in moles per liter) times the concentration of SO4 (in moles per liter) equals 2.4 x 10-5. If it's less, the gypsum will dissolve."

https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/Petrology/SolConst.htm

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This doesn't explain how our why its availability in soil differs so much from its availability in water.

Since it's clear there can't be a dispassionate discussion here, I'll go do my own homework.

Bye.

"if we put a chunk of gypsum in a liter of water, it will dissolve until (Ca)(SO4) = 2.4 x 10-5. If there's nothing else in the water, the concentrations of Ca and SO4 will be equal and we'll have (Ca) = (SO4) = √2.4 x 10-5 = .005. There will be .005 moles of Ca (.005 x 40 = 0.2 grams) and .005 moles of SO4 (.005 x (32 + 4*16) = 0.48 grams). As rocks go, this is very soluble. A cubic meter of water (1000 liters = 1000 kg) will dissolve 680 grams of gypsum."

I guess I never understood your question from the get go. I wonder why that was? BYE

NaturalFarmer said:

My apologies to @Tupapa and @ttystikk. I am a prick and it shows when I get ticked off. I shouldn't have insulted you both though.

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Its all gravy bruh!!

I don't hold grudges.

ttystikk said:

They're only coming apart with the help of your microherd which will help maintain a slow release.

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interesting, I've found conflicting information on this
here is one that says it's useable

http://www.ipni.net/publication/bettercrops.nsf/0/A04D690D24FB9E6085257B7200552E54/$FILE/BC 2013-2 p10.pdf

and this one says it's not, and that it requires microbial interaction

http://www.smart-fertilizer.com/articles/sulfur

you guys are doing me a favor and forcing me to do research, lets see what we find

give me a lil bit, it's slow at my shop
I have a feeling it needs microbial interaction, I just found a book and downloaded it, its a hefty one

heres a link to it

https://www.plantsulfur.org/Home?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Sulfur+Nutrition+and+Sulfur+Assimilation+in+Higher+Plants+(1990)+Rennenberg+et+al.pdf

greasemonkeymann said:

interesting, I've found conflicting information on this
here is one that says it's useable

http://www.ipni.net/publication/bettercrops.nsf/0/A04D690D24FB9E6085257B7200552E54/$FILE/BC 2013-2 p10.pdf

and this one says it's not, and that it requires microbial interaction

http://www.smart-fertilizer.com/articles/sulfur

you guys are doing me a favor and forcing me to do research, lets see what we find

give me a lil bit, it's slow at my shop
I have a feeling it needs microbial interaction, I just found a book and downloaded it, its a hefty one

heres a link to it

https://www.plantsulfur.org/Home?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Sulfur+Nutrition+and+Sulfur+Assimilation+in+Higher+Plants+(1990)+Rennenberg+et+al.pdf

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Sounds like a valuable thing to do on the job!

I await your research.

NaturalFarmer said:

My apologies to @Tupapa and @ttystikk. I am a prick and it shows when I get ticked off. I shouldn't have insulted you both though.

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don't sweat it man, just remember most of us are mellow, its al good
meanwhile, you are correct, sulfur in it's sulfate form does NOT require microbial interaction

copy and paste here
Sulfate is actively taken up across the plasma membrane of the root cells, subsequently loaded into the xylem vessels and transported to the shoot by the transpiration stream. The uptake and transport of sulfate is energy dependent (driven by a proton gradient generated by ATPases) through a proton/sulfate co-transport. In the shoot the sulfate is unloaded and transported to the chloroplasts where it is reduced. The remaining sulfate in plant tissue is predominantly present in the vacuole, since the concentration of sulfate in the cytoplasm is kept rather constant.

I did find, interestingly enough, conflicting information on it..

greasemonkeymann said:

interesting, I've found conflicting information on this
here is one that says it's useable

http://www.ipni.net/publication/bettercrops.nsf/0/A04D690D24FB9E6085257B7200552E54/$FILE/BC 2013-2 p10.pdf

and this one says it's not, and that it requires microbial interaction

http://www.smart-fertilizer.com/articles/sulfur

you guys are doing me a favor and forcing me to do research, lets see what we find

give me a lil bit, it's slow at my shop
I have a feeling it needs microbial interaction, I just found a book and downloaded it, its a hefty one

heres a link to it

https://www.plantsulfur.org/Home?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Sulfur+Nutrition+and+Sulfur+Assimilation+in+Higher+Plants+(1990)+Rennenberg+et+al.pdf

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Its not really conflicting just seems that way.
Elemental sulfur needs to be converted to usable form which is already in sulfate form with gypsum.


This will be up your ally. Sulfur content by manure
http://www.soils.wisc.edu/extension/pubs/A2525.pdf

ttystikk said:

Sounds like a valuable thing to do on the job!

I await your research.

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the beauty of having my own shop, I do whatever-the-fuck I wanna
plus it's cold and rainy today, so I ain't doin much

NaturalFarmer said:

Its not really conflicting just seems that way.
Elemental sulfur needs to be converted to usable form which is already in sulfate form with gypsum.


This will be up your ally
http://www.soils.wisc.edu/extension/pubs/A2525.pdf

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ahhh, THAT is what I was looking for, much more clear.

Good link!

I like how it tells us which manures are higher as well (apparently chickenshit owns in that regard)

also good to see langbeinite mentioned (my fav form of sulfur)

greasemonkeymann said:

don't sweat it man, just remember most of us are mellow, its al good
meanwhile, you are correct, sulfur in it's sulfate form does NOT require microbial interaction

copy and paste here
Sulfate is actively taken up across the plasma membrane of the root cells, subsequently loaded into the xylem vessels and transported to the shoot by the transpiration stream. The uptake and transport of sulfate is energy dependent (driven by a proton gradient generated by ATPases) through a proton/sulfate co-transport. In the shoot the sulfate is unloaded and transported to the chloroplasts where it is reduced. The remaining sulfate in plant tissue is predominantly present in the vacuole, since the concentration of sulfate in the cytoplasm is kept rather constant.

I did find, interestingly enough, conflicting information on it..

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It kind of depends on what is in the soil to begin with and pH in order to know what the sulfate will attach too..ie. Aluminum, Magnesium, etc.

NaturalFarmer said:

It kind of depends on what is in the soil to begin with and pH in order to know what the sulfate will attach too..ie. Aluminum, Magnesium, etc.

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apparently sulfur is readily made in compost as well
Another reason to love the stuff..
seemingly the ultimate "cure-all" for soils

greasemonkeymann said:

the beauty of having my own shop, I do whatever-the-fuck I wanna
plus it's cold and rainy today, so I ain't doin much

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Is snowing here again. Zero for tonight's low.

greasemonkeymann said:

ahhh, THAT is what I was looking for, much more clear.

Good link!

I like how it tells us which manures are higher as well (apparently chickenshit owns in that regard)

also good to see langbeinite mentioned (my fav form of sulfur)

Click to expand...

A friend of mine that I met on another site is a premier organic avacado and lime producer in Peru. His fruit is top grade (whatever grade they go by and one of the top producers worldwide) but he swears by top dressing gypsum and pushing the Sul Po Mag in flower. He tells me that in order to do that and push hard , you need very high calcium saturation and available calcium though.

I need to pick some up though. I have never used it.

ttystikk said:

Is snowing here again. Zero for tonight's low.

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man I visited an old girlfriend in Redmond Oregon, and it was negative 14 out!
only like 550 miles from my house, but in a totally different (white and f'in cold)
i'm a California kid, I am NOT meant for that...

NaturalFarmer said:

A friend of mine that I met on another site is a premier organic avacado and lime producer in Peru. His fruit is top grade (whatever grade they go by and one of the top producers worldwide) but he swears by top dressing gypsum and pushing the Sul Po Mag in flower. He tells me that in order to do that and push hard , you need very high calcium saturation and available calcium though.

I need to pick some up though. I have never used it.

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man, for calcium I reaaally like a good amount of shrimp/ crab meals, insect meal, and comfrey, and that tends to give me all the calcium I need
I can't recommend comfrey enough to growers, it's the best shit, and for you I bet it'd kick up your CO2 experimenting as well, it has almost the perfect cellulose ratio to degrade quickly, hence it's awesome-ness for topdressing
I shred it up into tiny thin slivers and bury it on top with a speck of EWC and it's gone in like a week

I really recommend this book. It is about limestone and not gypsum but it sheds light on the missing link in our food quality......calcium aids all other nutrients and provides nutrient dense food. The government use to provide farms with it for free prior to the 40's. Why not again?

"JESUS' FEEDING the Philistines with five loaves of bread and two fishes was considered a miracle. If the Bible is true to facts, this gives us something to think about. However, to grow 200 bushels of corn where only 65 bushels grew before is no less a miracle, because it means that we can feed three times as many people. This yield can mean life or death for millions of earth's inhabitants, and can postpone the day of reckoning for several generations."

https://www.dynamicgreens.com/app/uploads/2014/11/more-food-from-soil-science.pdf

greasemonkeymann said:

man, for calcium I reaaally like a good amount of shrimp/ crab meals, insect meal, and comfrey, and that tends to give me all the calcium I need
I can't recommend comfrey enough to growers, it's the best shit, and for you I bet it'd kick up your CO2 experimenting as well, it has almost the perfect cellulose ratio to degrade quickly, hence it's awesome-ness for topdressing
I shred it up into tiny thin slivers and bury it on top with a speck of EWC and it's gone in like a week

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Oyster shell flour also works great.

Yodaweed said:

Oyster shell flour also works great.

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ahh, I totally forgot about that one, I use that as well, plus I use a LOT of chicken-feed oyster shells, but that's cuz I like the way the soil mix looks with them in it.
I admit it's a lil silly, but I am, what I am.